Ep. 123: Fear the Mothman

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't deal with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most, where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw the top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to Tenfoil Tells. I'm your host, Brandon Wrightnight. We're gonna be joined by my guest, Easton Hawk here live in the studio. We're gonna be diving into some of the topics about the Mothman. You may know Easton from being an illustrator. He's got all these artworks hanging up on my wall here. We're drawn by him. Make sure to check those out if you haven't. If you've seen the live streams or anything you've seen the new artwork in the studio that's been drawn by Easton. We've been talking back and forth for a long time. We known each other outside of podcasting from band era, so it's been a few years since we've been knowing each other, but we've been talking about this for a while to get him on here and talk about the Mothman. So I'm definitely looking forward to doing that. But before we bring him on, if you've ever had an experience and you would like to be on an episode of ten Foil Tels, you can send an email to Tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com, or you can go to tenfoiltl dot com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out and get a message to me and we'll get something to schedule for a future episode. You'd like to help a podcast out, I ask you to please share it around. Word of mouth helps the podcast grow, and the more the podcast grows, more people finding out about it, which basically means their potential new guests to come on there and share their experiences with me. And if you've been sharing it around, just no I appreciate you guys. You can also leave a five star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts at That helps with the rankings. If you happen to write one out, I'll try and make sure to read it on an upcoming episode. You can also help out by joining the Patreon and becoming a member. There's a free membership and a paid membership. Make sure to check that out. Be sure to follow me around on social media. Look for Brandon tin Foyle Tel's on Facebook. That's where I'm most active. But now we're gonna go ahead and jump on into the conversation with Easton. Really looking forward to it, So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. I'd like to take this time to welcome my guest tonight, Easton Hawk. Thanks for coming on here and talking with me. Yeah. Absolutely. You are the second person that gets to record in my barn studio whatever you want to call it. It's cozy in here. Yeah, I do enjoy it. It's out of the house. It's a little bit different than it's here in space. Yeah, it's like every well we got a man cave. It's like, it's not a man cave, so it's a battle station. It's my little I call the rabbit hole, going out to the rabbit hole. So when people have been giving me stickers or I got stickers from like gear or whatever, I've been sticking into the door and I have all your artwork up on the wall behind. So for anyone that sees live videos and they see up here all the cryptid artwork, it is drawn by mister Hawk here. So definitely appreciate that. Yeah. Absolutely, Do you want to let the audience know a little bit more about yourself before we dive into it? Uh? Sure, Yeah, I am Eastern Hawk. I am an illustrator from here in Indiana. I mostly focus on folkloric stories cryptids, and then I also like to fuse it with my love for classics if I movie posters, and you know, most of these stories in the heyday of upology comes from the sixties and seventies, so I feel like it only made sense to blend the media, you know, cultural things that were going on at the time too. Yeah, I think like a lot of that stuff, if you go back into it, is it seems like it not so much the four like the fifties into the sixties, like a heyday for all that stuff. Sure, but especially I guess I'm going off of like the bigfoot boom in the sixties is definitely where suddenly everybody and their brother was seeing or you know, they had a story from ten years prior and stuff like that. But yeah, the saucer media that came out of the forties and fifties and then turned into bigfoot media, and you know that we've got to blend today. You know, there's a lot of things. I've been looking into things here and there, but like I've always thought it was funny because the depictions of gray aliens and then the actual depictions of what people say, Windo goes look like, yeah, crawlers in your goblins or they're always like. These Yeah, there's like an archetype of you know, we're afraid of skinny Long, you know, pale or you know, pitch black figures. Right psychologically, I think you know, that's like in the mindset or something, we're like terrorfied of. Right. Well, I just saw Alien Romulus last night finally, and like you know, the Xenomores, like the perfect you know, fictional creature design. So and that just goes back to you know, gaunt Long. You know, slender Man is such a big phenomenon now, so I don't know. There's definitely some sort of primal fear that's tapped into with long limbed tall man. For me, it's I've always been my love of obviously Godsil and King Kong. I've been the big giant monster fan. But that's something that was always interested in me as like monsters and general like Bigfoot. Even as a kid, loved big Foot, the Aleen, loved all that type of stuff. Never really believed in it. Yeah, right, but I still love it. I still know if I believe in it, it's it's definitely a want and a need, but I'm still not fully convinced. That's kind of how I am. Like, I believe people are seeing something, but I don't necessarily know what it is. That's where I'm at. I don't think all these people are just seeing owls and you know, misidentifying creatures that they're familiar with. So there's definitely something going on. But also in all my research, I think that it's a lot of co you know, co production with your your own mind and psyche and experiences and something like that. There has to be some sort of personal element into each thing. I think like, and I've mentioned this before, like I feel like sometimes things are so traumatic with people, the mind has a way of covering it up. Oh definitely, that's the way to cope with it, or something. Like Well, one of my favorite paranoral avenues is stone tape theory. Are you familiar with stone tape theory. It's the idea that natural elements that occur on Earth have the ability to essentially record, like a like real to real record traumatic and emotionally exhaustive events and replay them. So that's a lot of like wartime stuff, Civil War, Gettysburg has a lot of where it's it's not an intelligent haunting, it's just a like lip in time that replays exactly what happened at that moment. So I'm really into that kind of avenue of thinking where you know, uh, if enough, if enough, you know, exhaustive stressful energy is put out, either something picks it up or your mind in that moment kind of you know, going into like the DMT like penial gland like thing that everybody talks about at this point, just like there has to be something in your mind that kind of goes on autopilot and tries to make sense of whatever is going on. Yeah, that's something I've never messed was that I don't particul plan too. But everyone's like, oh, you need to try it. Like, at one point, I was really into the idea of because I also I also am really interested in out of body experiences and near death experiences and that's like as close as you can get without you know, mortally wounding yourself. Yeah, so it sounded interesting, But I also am a person that likes to be firmly, like on the ground and have my agency, and so it's just not something that I want to willingly put myself into at this point. I'm a paranoid person in general, so I think I've never had fun while inebriated. No, I'm I'm allergic to mushrooms. So to find that out, Well, I know I'm allergic to penicillin, which is made from the fungus or whatever, but my dad's allergic to mushrooms, so I just assume good because he's allergic to penicillin too. Why risk it? Yeah, definitely, so it's not worth it. I say I'm allergic to mushroom, but I'm not one hundred percent quote unquote it Yeah, but if I was to ever try that, just being afraid of knowing that I could be allergic, Yeah, sure, that's going to ruin it. I'm going to have a terrible trip. Is a pretty naturally paranoid person also, so giving you know, like I said, not having my full agency and feeling like I'm in complete control of whatever is happening at that moment is what's going to sway my brain into having the worst time of my life. Yeah. So for me, it's I'm not doing it. There's just no reason to. But that's neither here nor there. So what uh, what do you plan on talking here with me? Tony? Yeah, we've been trying to schedule for like a year now talking about Mothman Mofman in general. Both the point pleasant in the Chicago sightings, right, and it felt like a pretty good time where Mothman Festivals next month and Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix just released a Chicago Mothman episode, So figured we'd scratch on scratch the surface of that pretty. Much before we do what led you into of all the one like Mothman? Because for me, like I, I've known you outside of this, so I followed you when you started with the artwork and everything, but like Mothmail was like one of the first ones I remember you doing. Yeah, I think so. Originally I was raised on the original Robert Stack Unsolved Mysteries, And what really pulled me into all those like high strange and stuff was finding a copy of It's called Strange Stories and Amazing Facts. It's a reader's digest book from like the seventies or eighties. I found a copy of that in my grandma's basement and I kept it and I read it and it was full of you know, plenty of like fourteen just like strange occurrences. But then it also had a monster section. It was all you know, the big four like locked as Monster, Bigfoot, Mothman, Jersey Devil. It had all that kind of stuff. Mothman specifically, I thought was really interesting, especially when I started jumping into it as I got older and I read the Mothman prophecies and I you know, saw the movie with my dad and all that. That's the story that I have the most faith in that it happened, because it's just so far reaching. And then also realizing that Mothman isn't even like the most interesting like component in that story, there's so much going on. That it's like it's a cool feature of it. But I think the men in Black stuff is what really pulled me into that story, just with how far reaching and how strange, and just. Like then there's the injured cold aspect, Yeah. And the injured Cold whether or not it's connected is such a it's such a strange you know, like Red Herring story with Woody Darrenberger. So Mothman, I think it's just the most. It has the most going on that makes me believe that something was definitely happening. It's strange because before the actual before I knew anything about Mothman, I watched the Mothman Prophecies and I watched it pretty sure in the theater, so that kind of I think me and my girlfriend went and seen it, so I kind of outs me how old I really am. Yeah, I was seven years old when it came out. I was probably like sixteen or seventeen, but uh, we went and saw it in the theater or either rented it when it came it was one of the two. I just remember I watched it with an next girlfriend and I got looking into it afterwards because it was said based on true right when I started researching, I was like, well, shit, I didn't know this happened. Yeah, I never didn't know anything about it. I just thought it was like a creepy movie. Like and I actually rewatched it maybe two weeks ago, three weeks ago, and I guess, you know, I'm immersed in all this stuff. But for me, I thought it still holds up, like it's definitely a movie that couldn't be made today because there's no like fight sequence with them Offman, there's no like, you know, Marvel esque showdown. But I like, I like the you know the answer is there's no answer at all, like theme to it all. I just don't think, like what you said, today's audience wouldn't find it as interesting, like you have no interest in Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, especially at the time, you know, Richard Gear was such a big name to be thrown into a high strangeness movie, so I definitely think it was like a flash in the pan type thing where we'll probably never get that again. But Mark Pellington, who directed it, is working on a Mothman like mini series apparently I don't know where it'll stream, but he was at like eerie Pennsylvania con or something like that, and he was talking about he's got more Mothman coming down the pipe. Nice. I wonder if he'll be at this year's festival. Yeah, I'm hoping so. But it's also you know, I've been doing it. I've been a festival goer for about six years and I've been ending it the last two years. And it's post COVID. It's like bigger than ever. There's twenty five thousand people in a town of I think thirty six hundred for you know, three days, and it is overwhelming. So if he is there, I don't know if I would ever read elbows with him. It's just too many people. Off topic, but you mentioned how many people, and I just saw today that the first Annuel Bigfoot commerce are talking about it is at the end of the month of September and they're sold out. Holy shit. Yeah, I just now say that they've sold out of all this is the first one. The first one. Yeah, I don't know how many think it were, but the fact that it sold out kind of amazing. I mean, that is like prime country for that. Because I just I actually did a my first like squatch hunt at the end of May down in Brown County, and you know, I didn't see anything. It was like the week the weekend before Memorial Day, and I didn't think that the place would be flooded people, but they had you know, a car show and like marathons, and I was like, well, this is like the worst time to be hunting for sasquatch. But but yeah, I was down in that neck of the woods. So that's like, and I always forget how huge Brown County is. Yeah, it's just yeah, it's like twenty six square miles I think of Ye, then that's not even the whole of the Hoosier National Forest, but. That's just their little area that they have in their section. But right, I like to go down there in general, just because of the little shops and everything that it's like such a nice little little place. I did Hawking Hills Bigfoot Festival a couple of weeks ago, and it's kind of set up the same as as Mothman. It's in Logan, Ohio, and they shut down you know, like six blocks and they I didn't believe it as soon as they said it, but they were saying that they're expecting about fifty thousand people and there's probably maybe thirteen thousand, but you know they're also there for Hawking Hills, not just for a bigfoot convention. But yeah, it's a I don't know, but these events pop up everywhere now in every state I've noticed. I just interviewed your episode. This episode will come out first, but I just interviewed the other day a couple of setting up the Crawfordsville Paranormal no Convention. They claim they have like thousands of people responded to that one already. I believe it. Like there's I think I hopped in with this like niche right right on time, because I you know, I'm a musician. You're a musician. Up until the pandemic and music slowed down, I was doing flyers and band shirts and album art NonStop, and then everything kind of came to a halt, and I was like, oh my god, I can finally work on stuff that actually want to work on, which is how I got the Cryptid series started. And it's like I said, it's just year after year there's a new event popping up in the most random places, by the most random people. But I saw you at that one down the street here. Yeah, the pair of Unity and where I bought the Kentucky Goblin. The Kentucky Goblin was the first one from me, and I was like, man, I watched Hellyer you know about the Kentucky Like I thought it was very obscure and like, I didn't know you had that connect, right, And then I just listened to your episode with Lucky Sutton's daughter. Yeah, yeah, so. They have a little green Men festival or something down there, but I don't I don't know if it's you know, worth. The with my driving m Kelly green Men. Yeah, and you know we have Turtle Days up in Cheribusco. I just learned that the other day. Yeah, it's you know, I scouted it out to Bend also, but it seems like it's more like a street fair and it's not really about the Beast of Busco. It's just about like turtles celebration. So someone said they do like turtle races or whatever, like turtle races and you know, everybody's got turtle Sundays and shit. But it's not it's not as cryptid focused as I wanted it to be. That's why I was curious about doing the pair unit because I was the first time i've ever heard of it, and that was the Firerston. I'd been there and I saw either and I got that picture. Then I ended up bending two years ago, and I had been it last year. Now this year they asked me to bend. But I'm also being a speaker. Oh nice. Yeah, I'm on the waiting list. I it was okay the first year. They're definitely more in the ghost hunting, you know, that kind of stuff, and that's not really my thing, but you know, same demographic usually, so. Yeah, I am usually the odd ball there because I'm more of the monster alien yeah type of thing, which is funny in this lane. I've noticed that like UFO people disparage ghost people, and ghost people disparage bigfoot people, and there's people who focus on just one like facet of it. When you know, to a degree, it's all kind of connected. Yeah, that's what I was trying to explain to people, and they gets so mad, they're like, this can't be true. Was like, I mean it all it all goes back to you know, mortality and after you know, and any semblance of an afterlife. Like all of this stuff kind of. Gets very philosophical when you get you know, down to the basic components of it. That's why I don't understand why people get so upset and want to argue about it. And then the thing that cracks me up the most is you have when it comes to the people who believe in these cryptid like encounters or whatever, they think bigfoot is a flesh and blood creature. Then you got the people that believe in the wose side of a verst or supernaturally. That was one of the things that Hawking Hills. I don't have any Bigfoot designs, Like, I've got some stuff in the works, but I'm not a bigfoot guy when it comes down to it. And everybody would come up and be like, no Bigfoot, just you know, mofman stuff, and I was like, I really couldn't give less of a shit about Bigfoot, unless unless it's like UFO portal jumping Bigfoot. That's interesting. But like when I think of it in the grand scheme of cryptids, would anything change if we found Bigfoot? If like it unless it can speak like perfec English to us, I don't see Bigfoot really changing anything. If I see a big Foot out in the open and he flips me off, I'll be like. Oh, yeah, like if there's yeah, exactly, so if it's beyond being just an animal that's really good at you know, being elusive. I just don't see anything changing other than us adding a new species to to the books. I want to believe, Like the Patterson Gimblin footage to me has always been like the holy Grail of foot stuff because even today's standards they cannot. Disapprove, and we just keep getting better, like you know, more racking images of it and everything. So they're like, oh, now you can see muscle movement now, as it's a female that has. Breast, which is the best. If it is a hoax, that is the best, like you know, just the best little detail that you can throw in to make it just so you know, weirdly believable. Which even today's they can't make the suit they've tried. This was back in the sixty. There, so yeah, all boys try to make I mean I do get it because Roger Patterson was a known like grifter and he was like kind of a get rich quick guy, and he was there specifically to get footage of bigfoot. So I understand all of that around it to where you'd want to try and debunk it. But I mean, when it comes down to it, you can't. You can't do anything. You know, you can't you can't dispute it psychlo you know, scientifically, and you can't debunk it just from the video. It's been analyzed almost as much as the Zapruder film. So it's you know, you'd think that you could you can nip it in the bud pretty quick with how many eyes have been on it and how many forensic questions. Evidently, yeah, exactly so. But yeah, Mothman, I assume most everybody that listens to your show is familiar with Mothman, but we can give a quick run of the events. So like the most cut and dry aspect to yeah, a rundown of Mothman is November of nineteen sixty six. Two couples were necking essentially down at the abandoned T and T plant outside of Point Pleasant and noticed a man sized bird with man legs and a huge wingspan and piercing red eyes just kind of sitting in front of them. When they started to focus in on it, it raised into the air, and you know, they got spooked, so they started racing back to town. They claimed that they were hitting about one hundred miles an hour, but this thing kept up with them. They went straight to the sheriff's office, reported it, did some more investigating, and then that kind of kicked off Mothman Mania, where hundreds of people that reported seeing Mothman came forward. So I assumed that, you know, it's only a small portion of people that actually experienced something along those lines the like, Like I said, the cut and dry story of it is that Mothman kind of terrorized this area and even into like Pennsylvania and the surrounding areas along the Ohio River for about thirteen months, and then the Silver Bridge collapsed, which kind of killed everybody's like, you know, Vibe didn't really want to talk about Mothman after an actual tragedy. So lots of speculation that it's a harbinger of doom, lots of speculation, you know, it's I've seen like psychopomp theories that it was you know, trying to warn people that it was happening. Like an Angel of death type, right, which is. You know, I said that Mothman is like the least interesting part of the entire thing people are experiencing. Missing time. People were experiencing weird like voices in their heads. They were lots of like numbers. People would hear like random like number sequences voice down to them, weird phone calls, injured, cold premonitions, men in black It's kind of a was. Did the men in black stuff happened before the actual bridge collapse? Yes? So, And then. A few of the you know, witnesses that were there said that they saw men in black and checkered suits like on the bridge. It's a suspension bridge, so they were like on it. So there's lots of like weird men in black conundrums. Was the Mothman ever seen at the bridge? I mean, I'm sure people said that they did, but I don't, you know, like in the Mothman prophecies, you see the eyes at the at the top of the bridge. I don't think that's how it worked. It was mostly in a nature preserve around that TNT plant that was decommissioned, and the men in black stuff, I think it. I want to say it started up pretty soon because there was plenty of weird lights in the sky UFO type stuff too, along you know, with the missing time aspect of it. There was lots of reported UFO type activity. So this story is like the one story that has a little bit of everything in a person definitely hit the Yeah, it's everything in the kitchen sink. You've got your cryptid, you have your men in black, you have your strange premonitions, brain premonitions, your random UFOs. John Keel especially was like haunted with they appeared to be false flag premonitions, where you know, he was being told that there's going to be a giant blackout across the nation. He was told that the Pope was going to be assassinated. He was told that a chemical plant on the Ohio River was going to explode. He was given like a ton of tidbit information but it either wasn't in the timeframe that he was expecting so he wrote it off, or you know, it was just kind of to throw him off, the scent type thing m because you know, he would show up at John Keel being the guy that wrote the Mothman prophecies. I should probably mention that, but you know, he would show up at hotels that he had just decided to stay at for the night, and he would show up and he'd have a stack of mail like waiting for him. Or messages waiting for him. So there's just a lot of like trickster god type stuff going on along with all of the weird stuff. I saw something about how they claim that he made a lot of that stuff up himself. I mean he is. He was a writer, like beyond being a journalist. He was like a fiction writer, so I could see him kind of coloring it. But I think he was the I think he would have more journalistic integrity than a lot of the other you know, weirdo journalist. Especially Gray Barker was another like big player. He wrote a book called The Silver Bridge that came out in nineteen seventy, which was, you know, five years before Keel released Mathman Prophecies, and he he was a known hoaxer. I think he believed in the weirdo stuff, but I think it was one of those things where he believed it so much that he wanted everybody else to believe it, so he would actively hoax some phenomenon to get people to also you know, research it and believe it as well. Yeah. I don't know much about either one of them. Never really like looked into the guys himself, but I that was just something I come across As said that kill was a not They didn't call him a grifter, but they think he embellished a lot of the experience that he was having. I would I would probably agree that some of what he was experiencing wasn't as fantastical as it was written. But I would say that there. Was so much going on that I don't think that he made. You know, I would say ten percent if it is a little embellished, I would say ten percent out of all of the stuff that he was experiencing. So I know in the basin it off. I don't know how true his book to the movie was, but like he was getting phone calls, did he have any connection with the Injured Cold aspect? Or is that some Is that just what the movie and put together he did? So No, Indured Cold was pretty much like a one and done and it wasn't even connected to Mothman other than just the time period, because I think the Injured Cold encounter happened two weeks before the couples in the in the car chase happened and that kind of took off. But I know Woodrow Dhrenberger that had the Injured Cold encounter supposedly had contact with injured Cold like throughout his entire life, and supposedly even his daughter continued contact. So I don't know how true that is. I don't really believe in any of this stuff, but you know. So I had an episode that came out because the Tales from the Dark. That's a different podcast, but they actually talked about Interrod Cold on that one. It's a neat just the you can read the transcripts at the Mafman Museum. They have a printed transcript of the entire you know, because what he had his experience. And then the next day went down to the new the radio station and had an interview and gave descriptions and was able to you know, guess that he's this tall and weighed this much, and it was just if it is like if it is a hoax, it is a very good like world building oaks for him to have just because of how weird and connected to the men in black. Just like the way that he described Cold and the way that he described him his like speech pattern was very reminiscent of men in black. So it goes into you know, is wood he or is indured Cold a man in black? You know? Because well also. On top of that, he Indrew cold described himself as a searcher, So there's also that whole thing. Where was he looking for the Mothman? Is he? You know? It was just very cryptic terms that he was what he was told his like basis of being there, lots of what time is it? What do you call that? It's a city? You know, just very weird out of place, like what is this? You know, what is this world? I'm on? Like he shouldn't know the type of things if he was. Yeah, so, but yeah, Woody story goes on into some weird erotic stuff, which a lot of this uphology from that. Time strangely erotic. Yeah, John Keel he. Wrote some some some spicy fanfic about Batman at one point that was in like Penthouse or something or Playboy, So there's something something connected there too. Yeah, gets a little jolly somewhere or another. But now back to the Mothman thing, like where do the term Mothman? I remember seeing that that was definitely a news room, like, you know, somebody just named it the Mothman because the Batman series was on at the time, so I think it was trying to play off of that. You know there's. A killer moth in the Batman series. Yeah, so I think it was just a you know, they saw that it had fuzzy or feathered wings and just kind of put it to that. I think the eyes also had something to do with it had bug like eyes. I wondered if they didn't see I know, it gets rolled off for a lot of things, but like maybe they saw like a huge bird, right. Which the a lot of debunkers want to say that it was a misidentification of a sandhill crane, which is, you know, a large bird, but not like a thick, stalky man like you know, man looking bird. But it has a red like flare on the top of its head, so they're trying to say that the red eyes could just be you know, the red accent on its head reflecting. But it's pretty consistent through all the eyewitnesses that the eyes were about five inches apart and in its chest, which is also my like favorite design element of the moth Man. It's headless, It's just wings and a torso pretty much. Which is kind of creepy in this fact that, like anyone has listened to my show knows to one thing that I'd saw never had a head and didn't have arms. Really, so basically that when people listen to the show, I try to talk about basically when I saw that dog thing, right, I was gonna say, I know the dog encounter, but it's it's the same thing. Okay, before the dog, the guy that was driving in front of me swerved and miss something in the road, and the thing was walking and it didn't have an arm, it didn't have arms, it didn't have a head, okay, And that was the first thing I come up to, and I swerved around to miss it too. So we pulled into the parking lor before we get to the highway, talk to each other, and then we turned, you know, we turned back around, and that's when the dog was laying in the road. Oh okay, And I thought the thing that was walking was the dog, but the dog clearly was Yeah, already, it was already there, but it wasn't there when we just drove past. But we never did see the first thing walking. But the first thing walking was over seven had like in my vehicle. I never seen the top of it, and it was leaning forward it and it was walking down the road in the middle. Yikes. So I've done everything I can to debunk it. Yeah, sure, because I don't believe in any of this, right and I have I have. I don't know if I've talked to you about my one single experience that it's not cryptid in nature, but it is a strange, like almost doppelganger vanishing hitchhiker type thing. Okay. So I was living in Cincinnati. I went to the Art Academy of Cincinnati, and I would go biking on the weekends because I didn't have my car down there, and I would ride my bike from downtown Cincinnati across the bridge into Newport, Kentucky, over to Covington, Kentucky, and then back across the bridge back to my dorm. One of these days I was doing that, and then I decided to just kind of like follow the flow of Covington, and eventually I got to a red light. When I got to the red light, I you know, started looking around taking a drink, and I saw a homeless guy that was like reclined up against a building on the sidewalk, and he looked like he just had like the tar beaten out of him. He had blood caked in his beard and on his neck, and his eyes were like almost swollen shut, like eighty percent swollen shut, and we kind of like acknowledged each other and like white guy smiled at each other. And as soon as that, Yeah, So soon after that light turned green, and I'm on an incline, so I'm like haul and ass about eight blocks and you know, like thirty forty seconds and I come to another red light, and diagonal from me is the same exact guy, but standing, and by the time I look at him, he's already looking at me. So it felt very much like a you know, a weirdness, a personal like he's trying to freak me out type thing, which happened, and I got like a really harsh sense of fight or flight, and I booked it back across the bridge to Cincinnati and to my dorm, and then I really didn't even think about it for two or three days after that, until I don't know if we had to go to like the library in Covington for something, but just acknowledging that Covington, Kentucky existed, I remembered that I had this really weird thing happened, and then I started talking to everybody, which also researching all this stuff I learned about paranormal apathy, And that's kind of what I chalked it up to. Do you know what paranormal apathy is. It's the idea that something so strange happens to you and you should be like gushing about it and talking about it NonStop, but you almost it's almost like turned off in your brain where you want to block out that experience. So I know a lot of like group alien abductee stories have that kind of thing. Specifically, I think of the two guys that experienced the Pascagoula aliens abduction, those guys like kind of went their separate ways. One of them really wanted to talk about it and he went on like the talk show circuit, but the other guy was very They just didn't want anything to do with each other at some point. Same with Terry Lovelace who had an alien abduction experience at Devil's Den with one of his buddies. As soon as they kind of like not realize what happened, but once they were trying to piece everything together, both of them just like hated each other. They didn't want anything to do with each other. So paranormal apathy is just this idea that, like you should want to dig into whatever this is and try to get to the bottom of it. But you just, I don't know if that's like something that's placed in your psyche that you don't want to think about it or talk about it. But that's kind of how it felt like after the fact, where three days went by and I didn't think about this weird thing, and then it's all I could think about for you know, a while after that, trying to figure out how this happened. That's kind of how what happened between me and the guy that saw that thing, because I woke up the next morning and I drew it. Yeah, and I went on line looking for information about it, and then he wanted nothing to do with it. Yeah, I refuse to talk about. It, which I am more inclined to believe a person's story if they're like reclusive, you know, doing a lot of these events. You know, I met Travis Walton last year, and I get like kind of a skeptical like side eye to people that make an entire life out of like telling a story. So you know, I. Want my weird experiencers to be like absolutely haunted by whatever happened. So yeah, yeah, it's just but yeah, that's the single weird experience I've had that I can't explain, no matter how much like, you know, I told the story on Jim Harold's campfire a few years ago, and then I met Jim Harold at a monster fest in Canton, Ohio, and it had been like over a year between me telling him and me talking to him, and we had this weird synchronicity where I came up and introduced myself and we were talking, and then he said, you know, this is really weird. I actually just got an email about your story like four days ago, and he pulled it up, and it was just a guy talking about in his town there were like two twin brothers that were famous for fucking with people by addressing the exact same being on two different, you know, streets at the same time. So unless both of these guys got in a bar fight and it is, you know, two identical twins that look like shit and looked like they'd gotten beat to hell, it's just a very far fretched explanation. And then simply I finally found a story almost exactly like mine, but it had more of a it had a better ending than mine does, where it's on. It was on an episode of Belief Whole, which is a yeah, yeah, there was a call in that. It was out of San Francisco. A guy who was skateboarding. He gets out of his building, he sees a bum quote, he calls him a bum, and the bum looks him up and down and says, I see you covered in blood. And the guy's like, well, that's weird. He gets on his skateboard and starts going down the hill in San Francisco. And there you can kind of like time the lights. So if you see that a light is red in three blocks, you count thirty seconds and. It'll be green and you can move them on firemers. Right, So he was doing that, you know, going downhill haul in ass because he knows that it'll turn green and he won't have to stop, he can just roll on through it. Well, he's getting down there and there's the exact same guy that he had just left, you know, ten seconds earlier, on the side, and he catches sight of him and it freaks him out. So he comes to a skittering holt and somebody ran the red light, so it would have hit him, but it was a like, you know, a guardian angel type element to it. Okay, that's weird. Yeah, so I think about it quite a bit. I've told that story a few times now. I don't know, it's not enough to like give me a paradigm shift, because I could just be misremembering at this point it was, you know, twelve years ago. But yeah, it's the one thing that's I can't like chalk up to anything other than something weird. Right, So I didn't even talk about my shit even when I started the show. It'd been over a year before I even mentioned anything about mine because what you just said, I don't want I don't want people thinking this, Wow, he's just making stuff up to whatever. Right, Because also one of my fears now that if I do see something, nobody's gonna believe me because I'm a cryptid artist. And of course this guy saw something weird and probably fucking thinks about in draws and all that kind So that's the reason I even do this and even like interested more into this whole thing because. Of that event. Yeah. Sure, like I didn't believe in any of this stuff, and I still struggle to say I even do. But it's like I saw something weird. Man, I can't explain it. So I was like, now that gives more credence to people that have those experiences, because like I feel like I'm one of the people. Yeah, And I mean the more the more, the more I listen to and read and research weird stuff. There's so many, there's so many weird themes and elements to stories that it's just a it would just be a hell of a coincidence if people are indeed making this up, you know, like especially, there's lots it's hard to gauge now in the age of the Internet and creepypasta and everything. How much is genuine I saw this and how much is just you know, head games or you know, people trying to get some attention. So it's hard to gauge at this point. But there are you know, there are signs that you can look for in people's stories and people's accounts, and usually the more mundane are the more believable, because you know, right mine doesn't really have like a cool ending. I saw a guy and I got scared and ran home. That's that's really what she can do. That's a I always question things to an extent to where when I interview people and I don't try and prove or disprove anybody, because that's not what I'm here for. Because but sometimes when you start hearing things and then I was very skeptical of the people it had multiple experiences just because but then when I've started talking about things and I've started looking into things, and then I go back to stuff, I'm like, I had weird stuff that happened here was that I never chalked it up to anything strange. But then you start thinking about all the weird stuff that's happened. You're like, if I had multiple instances, like now, I feel like I don't believe my own self because exactly that's there. I have a lot of like like I said, it's like a self doubt thing where I've I've thought about this so much, and there's been so much time between now and when I had that weird experience that I'm like, is it is it a dream? Like everything? It feels so fuzzy, but I can still see it, you know, so vividly, just from you know, my reaction and you know the recoil my body had when I understood what was happening. I don't even know how, like I don't know how it happened, Like for something like that to go on, it would be strange, but I don't. My friend ed, who's been we did the other podcast together. He talks about this guy that he sees almost every day. It's almost on the time like a loop. The guy's driving, he's getting off work. He always sees the guy and the guy's always eating and what looks like one of those gas station like I don't know if it's like a hot dog or one of those like tornadoes. Yeah, he's always eating. He said he saw him again the other day and he wanted to like get just following to see where the guy goes. He says, he sees him. It's always doing this, He's always taking a bite. It's always like on a time loop. He said He's never really noticed it until he's started to pay more attention like that at all. Yeah, he feels icky. Yeah, it could just be an habitual. You know, I'm a creature of habits. It could just be a guy that's like staunchly yeah, regimented. But he says he when he gets off because he works different hour, like he works on the factory, but like he sometimes he works later. Yeah, like sometimes he works over it for ten hours, eight hour, worked ten and then sometimes been working twelves, work twelves the other day, got off of seven o'clock and he's seen the guy again. Is it the same like stretch of ye road? Ever? Same spot? That's so weird. So I need to have it when we do another episode. I need to have a wonners. We can talk about it at some point. You need to tell us just follow the guy man. You ever watched the movie The Endless Uh huh? It's it's like a cult movie. Two brothers that go back to this cult that they escape from. I've seen the stuff for but I've never watched that. There's a big element in that is time loops and people in getting stuck in a cycle where some people have like an eight second cycle before it restarts, some people have a twenty four hour cycle before it starts. Some people have, you know, a year's long cycle, and then they're always back in the same space. Some people are aware of it and some people aren't. And that kind of shit really messes with me. Right, I feel like it's like a different version of Groundhog's Days, like the creepier version. Right. Yeah, there's as a sinister version of. The but got off topic on off Marria, which it's okay, no script, we're just going off of it. Yeah, anyone who listens to the show knows that I don't ever have anything planned out. We can go to the Chicago morphman sidings. Those are more recent. Those were Yeah, So there's two websites that you can like get the whole scoop on this thing, whatever it is. There's Singular fourteen dot com and there's Phantoms and Monsters dot com. That's lawn trick Yeah, lawn Strickler, and then Tobias Whalen is the other guy with Singular fourteen. I guess. So you know shorthand Chicago has been having large winged humanoid encounters for the about twelve years now. I think the first reported sighting of whatever this is was back in twenty twelve. But I mean, if you dig into anything like this, there's been weird reports of winged humanoids like through centuries, so, but modern accounts twenty twelve seems to be the first Chicago area mothman sighting, and then twenty seventeen is where you see a boom in hundreds of you know, hundreds of people not knowing what they saw, but knowing enough that it's a man with wings, or sometimes it's no wings and it's just a man hovering in the sky, which is also a John Keel era, you know, point pleasant phenomena of just seeing the silhouette of men standing still in the sky, but especially around the O'Hare Airport. I'm not an expert in any of the stuff. I'm just going off of you know, reports, and like I said, Unsolved Mysteries just released a Chicago Mothman episode at the end of July. There's supposed like conspiracies with the O'Hare Chicago O'Hare Airport, like trying to silence employees and violets from you know, going public with any of this stuff. But like I said, there's well over one hundred accounts of pretty much the same thing. But the whereas the point pleasant mofman was described more like a bird with like feathered angel wings, almost there have been a lot of like membraneous, we insectoid like wings. So there's been a lot of like you know, I would say, more close up encounters, like maybe through a fence in a field and not just people driving and seeing something in a you know, for a blip of time, but yeah, very much bat like or insect like wings. But it still has the red eyes, which is the common factor, which is how turned into the Chicago Mothman. Did you ever hear about the ones that they saw supposedly at Chernobyl see, I don't know how true it is they called it. I remember, I know that that's called the blackbird, and I know that again, I know that that is a thing like throughout millennia is like the blackbird is like a cultural phenomena where, you know, going back to thunderbirds. I think it's supposed to be like a harbinger of doom type thing too. But I know that Richard had him supposedly made up that in the Mothman Prophecies movie. Richard had him being the screen the screenwriter. I know that he made up that. And then you know, I've also seen that supposedly Mothman was seen around nine to eleven. Yeah, I don't know if I believe any of that stuff. But the blackbird, it wasn't described as a humanoid thing like Mothman. It was described as literally a giant bird. So I want to believe that that's there's something. To that same with. Was it the Fukushima the nuclear I want to say they also had a black bird. I've seen them. It seems like anytime there's like a big tragedy thing like that, there's always people saying that they were side. I was like, does that her or someone is making a bullshit because I've heard. Of the the Joplin butterfly people story. Uh you know, Joplin, Missouri had that giant tornado tornado. Around that tornado, people all over town, like as shit was hitting the fan were claiming to see essentially angels is how like kids described it. But they had butterfly wings and they would either come down and uh, you know intervene in. You know, a car is flying at you and then all of a sudden, this man with butterfly wings is like shielding you and nothing happened. But I did a little episode of that on the Strangeology podcast a few years ago where we went into this whole story where and we got into like psychopomps, which is, you know, in Greek mythology and in Roman mythology, the idea of somebody like guiding you on your way to Hades or you know whatever heaven is in that culture, so a lot of speculation with that. But then we also got into stone tape theory because maybe it was like so much electricity in the air between the super self thunderstorm and all of the emotional like bandwidth that was being expelled from all these people in peril, just you know, a thinning of the veil happened and whatever these things were popped through to intervene and. All for protection. I guess, you know it's but the thing that stuck with me with that story is that, you know, that's like straight up the Bible belt, like children know what angels are supposed to look like in Christianity, that it's usually bird wings. It's usually you know, handsome built people. So it's just a strange detail to throw in butterfly wings and like the most beautiful, like glass mosaic butterfly wings that. But then on top of that, it was a lot of children and children that don't have like, you know, phones, they don't have access to other kids that go to different schools in the area. So it was just there was too many reports of the same thing coming from people that are separated, you know, socially, right, that there was definitely something unless they're all having like, you know, mass ysteria type thing. But it's strange they'd all be hallucinating the same thing exactly. So that's hard on under stand with people trying to use that excuse like mass hysteria they're all having the same hallucinations. Like explain how that's possible. Yeah, right, I can understand, you know, the game of telephone and people freaking out because they heard something, But I don't know. It's just weird to like if someone had that experience and they told someone else and someone's like, yeah, I had that too, But like if they're all having it at the same time without any communication, like you. Cannot during a city wide tragedy, it's just a weird thing to make up and to run with. It's funny because you mentioned like the Bible belt or whatever. Like I always think it's funny because people say this is what angels look like, but the biblical description of a angel don't. Look abstract tool music video, So. Where did that come from? And like, without going into the whole religious aspect of I've always thought that was stranger that people are like, oh, they look like us with wings, Yeah, right, Like no, that's you know, that's not one hundred or it's the PG version of it, and I'm pretty sure which is strange, and I don't know. I'll probably get messages from people saying I'm wrong, But isn't in the Bible it mentioned that we were created in God's and God's image, But doesn't God say our in it? He didn't say he says they were creating our image. It's been so long since I've had to peel open the Bible. Yeah, I always I don't know if I'm wrong or right. I'm sure someone let me. Know, but I would say it was I want to say the quote is in his image, in his image, I want to say, but again, I'm not a theologian and I'm also not religious. Because I thought somewhere i'd read recently that it says we're creating or men was created an our image. God reford to himself as plural. I like that, So, uh, you can edit this out. But this is something that I caught onto. Well, I was just you know, inging documentaries and just consuming a lot of weird media. I think it was like three in a row shows I was watching about weird phenomena. They always went into the these are good, honest church going folks that know what they saw, that kind of thing. If you go to church, that doesn't make you. It doesn't mean anything. I believe that, you know, I don't have to go into like a disparaging thing about Christianity. But like it's already pretty You're already showing us that your beliefs don't have like scientific basis, and you are willing to believe in very very very far fetched things being reality. So that doesn't really like it's not going to sway me one way or another just because you go to church a kind of thing. I say it all the time though basically for me, it's like, and I actually think I brought this up recently the other day. When people don't like religious types or whatever, I find it funny that they don't believe in paranormal Yeah exactly, because what they're they believe in a holy spirit? Well what that that's a spirit? It's a yeah, it's a it's a multifaceted. Like I don't believing I don't believe in ghosts, but I believe in the Holy ghost. Yeah, what you believe in demons? You literally created Satan, the Catholic Church literally created the idea of the devil and ran with it. So the only people that believe in the devil are Christians, Like you know, Satanism is more about you know, the earth and just being a good person, like without the promise of the afterlife. So I don't know, it's it's that's just what the devil wants you to believe. Now off topic again, Yeah, I know, Well it's just I might as well call my show off the rails because that's where it typically goes. But no, the other day, uh, in front of you, I have the because Little Thing and I bought it and the guy was ringing me up and he said, have fun with your cult stuff, like all right. Commercial, you know, Lovecraft's pretty. It's like when people like are up in arms about like Stephen King stuff like you know, the West West Memphis three Kids. Do you remember that story, like getting shitty with kids about wearing Kiss shirts and Metallica shirts and reading Stephen King. These are the most. Commercial, corporate, filtered, you know, weirdo things you can buy. I just feel like if you're really into that kind of stuff, there has to be more underground stuff you can get into. Side Stephen King and Metallica. I like Cthulhu like this is, but I've always liked like octopus, oh, cephalopods, and I like giant monsters, so I've always liked Cthulhu because he's a big giant monster. He's also got like the cephalopod look to him. So for me, it's just I'm not out here worshiping. Yeah, right, Like I said, it's the most commercial thing. I'm buying a you know, I'm buying a figurine from the Fye right. But no, it was one of those bookstores and the guy was being like, enjoy your cult core. I was like, all right, man, thanks, I sure will. Yeah, I'm gonna go home and worship to him and like make sacrifices or something like, guy, you saw manga here? This is like pretty pretty tame. No, that's a I get a lot of weird look especially anymore like if I I actually don't feel so strange. But I see a lot of people wearing bigfoot stuff now, oh yeah, Like I was in Walmart yesterday and a guy was wearing a Bigfoot shirt. I was like, man, he's an older guys. Like I'm giving one of my cards to be like, hey, man, like he's probably what's the podcast? Yeah? Right, So, being uh doing these events and everything, I didn't realize how bigfoot is like a right wing like icon. Have you ever noticed any of that? No, but that doesn't surprise me. We'll see it next month or yeah, next month. Yeah in Nashville, Indiana. It's it doesn't surprise me. I went to a local Bigfoot thing was in solid Widley, and I was surprised by how many like older folks that were there. Yeah. And when I did these UFO speaking events, the one of four Wing, the one, there's a lot of older folks that were at those too, which is kind of surprised me. I didn't think they listened to stuff like that, but apparently, like this is a very popular topic for a lot of older folks. I mean I get it. Like I said, the sixties and seventies were like well yeah, that man hunting. You know. This is what actually I find interesting because when I was at one of the UFO events and I have he's supposed to speak, he'll be one of the ones I do out here in person, he told me that he was told by two different people that they saw winging humanoids recently out by Miss Snila. You know, I have actually also seen something about that on Phantoms and Monsters, but it was an account from like decades ago. Well this was supposedly recently because right after I found out about it, this was back in March, me and my friend and my step son went out there. I was going hunting that night. I was like, I'm going to look and I'm going to use my use my eleven year old for bait. So we went out there and we were driving around and really didn't find anything. Yes, sure, but uh I went to the same locations and everything. But supposedly one lady had saw one at the tree line and when her headlights hit. It, it just started floating up even and I forgot to mention this in the Mothman discussion pieces one. That's another one of my favorite mechanics of Mothman encounters is that it doesn't flap its wing. It raises its wings and then it just levitates in the sky. That's what this thing had done, which is obviously, you know, terrifying, right. I feel like that's a much more like head scratcher. Yeah, how it just floats. Yeah, but that's what the description was was they thought it was a person. Yeah, and then it just started floating up and went up above the trees and flew off over the trees, but it never was flapping. That's interesting. And then there was another one that was in the middle of the road and then it like they thought it was a person in a coat. I was like, what that sounds familiar, that's it. Yeah, that's so. I can't remember what the it has a It's a German story that is associated with mothman stuff. It's called like the. Oh the Freiburg Shriekers, a German story from the eighteen hundreds about men that were on their way to the mine to start their day's work, and there was a person standing in front of the mouth of the cave that it looked like he had a trench coat on with his hands folded, And as they got closer, it opened up these huge giant wings and like stood its ground and just screamed at them anytime they tried to get close. So the guys, you know, huntered around for hours waiting for this thing to just like walk off, and finally they look over and the thing's gone. So they start packing up their stuff to go walk you know, get to work and the mine explodes. So that's another one of those like Carpenter of doom Es type stories. But yeah, it's a weird See, that's what I'm saying. Everything's connected, there's yeah, you know, arms folded. Well, what's funny. And I don't know if I've told this on my show or not, but like when we were out going to look for this thing, I was telling my friend what we were doing, and he referred to the guy as our friend. I was like, I don't know who you're talking about. He's like, our friend Mitch saw something out there. I was like, Mitch, Mitch. But he said him and his wife were driving out that way, and I don't remember how many years ago this was, but he said that they saw a dead animal, like a dead deer on the side of the road and looked like a person hunker down eating it, and as they got closer with the headlights, it raised his head up and did like a weird hiss like look at him and then like opened up wings and like took off in the air, straight up in the air. I was like, that's not like a gargoyle. Yeah, right, it's like but he'd never and my friend that I was out there. He is not one to ever I've never caught him ever, bullshitting anything like that is not him. So the story that was told to him, I believe was told to him. Yeah. Sure, but that is a very weird time to tell me this when we're out here looking for this thing in the same area and then you tell me, oh, yeah, our friend Mitchell. I was like, well, know, Mitch, but now I want to know, Mitch, because I want to funk you up because I'd like to know what it was. But they swear where he said he's were that they saw something eating roadkill, which is again. Part of the couples that were, you know, in the car chase that kicked off them offman stuff. They said that they saw a large dog dead on the side of the road, and when they were coming back the same way with the sheriff to investigate, the dog's carcass was gone. And then that's also connected to a guy named Yule Partridge end Point Pleasant. He was outside his house because his dog was going crazy, and he claims that he saw two red eyes next to you know, like a shed, you know, a few yards away from his house, and he could tell just by knowing how tall his shed is, that this thing was standing about seven feet tall. And dog goes crazy, dog runs after this thing, and he never see the dog again. And he said that he would have chased after the dog, but the presence of whatever was at the shed instilled so much fear in him that he couldn't might bring himself to leave the porch and go after his dog, and then never saw the dog again. So I never took anything like this like aspect to it until just recently because someone asks me this, and I don't remember if I was on someone else's show or they're just in general poking to me, but they said the first thing that I described when I say it as when I the headless, armless thing, I thought it was a person in a cloak and I could look like wrapped in a blanket or something. Someone's like, you think it was wrapped in wings, Yeah, like like your descriptions on like a moth man. I was like, yeah, just different, like I didn't see. Yeah, it's like I never even thought of anything like that. I was like, but I don't like my I don't the whole thing. I still to this day like seventeen years later still pisses me off. Yeah, of course, because I've never found an answer and I'll probably never will. I always just. Say that, you know, I want it too much, and I think the universe knows that I want it too much. Like I want to experience something that is like paradigm shifting. I want to like feel the awe of believing in something and like chasing it. But I just I don't think it will ever happen because I'm looking too hard. Someone said, if I ever see it again with what I do is like I'm running that motherfucker over. So you know, Yeah, I watch all these ghosts, these paranormal shows where they travel hundreds of miles to stay the night an asylum and then as soon as something happens that they're there to capture the scream, they're scream. And run away. I want to run in and I want to I want to get to the bottom of it. Like for me, like I'm not going to run away from it. I didn't do it the last you. Know, the dog Man encounters that I don't want to face head first, you know, all the Land between the Lakes stuff, the fear Eater type stories. Right, I struggle with that. Yeah, like I wasn't ever afraid of that. I don't ever in SA saw a dog mancause I don't even believe in dog there was a dog it stood up on two legs and like what up, dude? But no, that like for me, Like and my friend the one that I recorded recently, I was in a band with him, so that like next day I think that I had to go to practice and I mentioned on the cards like you're one of the first people I talked to him. I was like, I remember that that weird. I was like, y'all probably was fucking crazy, right, And this is before any of this stuff was even like popular. It was like and I say popular, but like it's more open. Pretty prevalent, like especially the last six eight years, like dog man stories or sightings. Have like yeah, I never even heard of that thing exactly. So until you know, there's always been what we called them. Were wolf stories right before dog man came into which I know. That's also another push is that maybe a lot of bigfoot sightings are misidentified as dogmen or vice versa. So I don't know, no matter what, there's weird stuff going on, and that not everybody is lying. Yeah, and you know, and if even one percent of the stories are true, they're. Still I need to know what that means. There's still that one percent. Like if ninety nine percent of the people are wrong, there's still one percent that's not wrong. Yeah, which is enough for me, right, It's enough for me to sit in the go and spend thousands of dollars to build a place to record and talk to people about this stuff. Well, on my on my business card it says, uh, you know, Encyclopedia of useless Knowledge, like all of these it doesn't mean anything. I'm not a better father or matter husband. So all this dumb shit. My business cards. I had to black out the QR code because the QR codes off working men in black. Well that it came up with wanting me to pay a monthly fee to keep it active. I was like, that's a QR code, yeah right, So they wanted me to pay ten dollars a month. So every business card I have I had to put a black dot. Just use link tree, link Tree, I'll give you a QR code. Yeah, but and it's free. I was using whatever, I forget what I was is I used Adobe to design all this stuff. But yeah, it supposedly generates like QRCA, and they wanted me to pay like a subscription to the QR. Yeah it's Adobe, So that says Encyclopedia of useless knowledge and also abductee hopeful, which I'm I know I'll regret one day if something something weird happens. And then recently somebody apparently gifted some of my art to Henry Zebrowski that does Last Podcast on the Left. And when they when they told him my name, he said, oh, his name is very fancy. So that's also going on my business card. Ye, his name is very fancy. Quote Henry Ubrowski, Last Podcast on the Way. Yeah, I said, I've had this little guy as it was funny, like before Bigfoot was ever popularized. Like I don't know where I got to. I think my mom and d gave it to me, and it's just been something I've always liked as a kid. Yeah. So going through some of my old stuff, like I found some of my old gods a littally whatever, my old King Kong's I have it old little Bigfoot I took. I had to make a trip out to Point Pleasant to the Mothma Museum in June to deliver some posters, and I made it a day trip and I had to take my kids and they're not interested in this shit like whatsoever. It's not Minecraft and it's not you know, they just don't care. So but taking them to Point Pleasant, they definitely like perked up that. You know, the entire town is built on Mothman economy and there's you know, tons of fun stuff there. But my three year old got a little plushies Sasquatch, so now she wants to consume everything that is Sasquatch related. So we've been watching Harry and the Henderson's and I repeat for the last fourteen days. We watched it a couple of years ago, and I think my three year old now would actually like it because he was so young at the time when we watched it. But he loves Godzilla, yep. So he likes to come out to and behind you. He sees all that stuff. He's like, I open. I was like nope, He's like I open, Like nope. He's like I open. No, You're not open any of them. You can open it when I'm dead. Like when he sees all that stuff, and most of that stuff I used to have like a pesteem. It has been in the basement and it wasn't climate control. A lot of us gotten room the package. I was like, saw, I'm aggravated. But he is a character. Yeah, but basically for him, he just wants to play with everything. But I was like, I don't. I don't know what I'm gonna do when I die. I can't be buried with us, So my wife's gonna just have like pay for college at some point. Maybe maybe keep an eye on I say on those eBay listing my half assed painted a cabin. It behind you. I got all the comic books and all sorts of things in there from that, But I never know. You mentioned you don't have a whole lot of Bigfoot stuff. I was like, that's my little AI generated T shirt big Foot, but it works. Yep. Shout out to uh Shane. Chepy Squeegee. Yep, Cheapy Squeegee does all the shirts for me. He did the same thing for like all the old band shirts that are in here, he did all them too. He is a guy that. I could just talk to for hours, well, he could talk to me for hours, Like he is just such a he has such like a weird hybrid like engineer artist brain that he could do. And you know, he knows everything that he's interested in. He knows it like to a tee. One of the first times I met the guy, I talked to him about getting shirts made and we were just up there talking or whatever, and he he was talking to me about certain things and said that he's gonna go out camping that weekend or what He's like. He mentioned, he's like, you want to come out. I was like, I don't know, you. Did, No, he'd be a great goay to go camping. Yeah, but like I love the dude. He's a great guy. Like we've gotten along so like that was the first My first impression of him was just like, to go camping. We're gonna go out there plates mushrooms. I was like, right on, dude, I'm allergic. Like, yeah, I'm not going to go on that trip. So I got the show coming up this wire making those shirts. Also, again, I don't know, you're not going with you. The lesson for this episode don't take drugs from strangers. Ye hope you listened all the way through to get there. Yes, No, a side note story. This was again dating me but this wasn't an oz Fest in the early two thousand. I think it was oz Fest two or something like that. So it's been twenty something years ago. But we were standing there and some body handed a pipe next to my I was staying to my friend that I was with, and he hit it. I was like, are you fucking stupid? I was like, you don't even know what that was, but you have no idea what that was. This is before fenanol. I think this is before. This is back when people wanted you to be fucked. Up right without being right, like like that could have been cracked, dude. But so no, that's uh life lessons. Folks don't uh just don't do drugs at least not with strangers. But no, as far as the Mothman stuff, because like, to me, that's always been like I said, since I watched that movie and I didn't know it was based on anything, right, But after that's when I started digging into it. I wasn't even digging into cryptid stuff in general up until two thousand and seven when I seen some right, because to me, I didn't believe in any of it. And it's like I still struggle with it. But like I didn't. I didn't have the interest. I guess, like I was interested in stuff like it, but for me, it's I just didn't think it was real, Like so I just like crazy people or making stuff up. Yeah, but now it's just like they probably really are seeing some them you know. Yeah, it might not be exactly what they're describing, but something bizarre happened, and it you know, it was in a finite amount of time, and it all culminated with that bridge collapse, which is you know, that's the tidy narrative of it. People saw mofband afterwards. There were plenty of sightings in and around the area of weird stuff. But I think at that point, after thirteen months of like like I said, mof Mania, nobody wanted to talk about that shit anymore. Nobody wanted to talk about UFOs, Nobody wanted to talk about anything going on while they had you. Know, howarty some people die or went How far along was the first siding up until the bridge collapse? Thirteen months? It was thirteen months. There's it's kind of shaky because not point pleasant but nearby the first technical technically, the first sighting was. A group of guys that were digging a grave. That saw a giant bird like swoop over there truck and land on a branch, and it. Was it was absurdly huge. That's like they're not, you know, bringing in tourism from this being the first place that all nat was seen or anything like that. But I think that's the first reported and documented encounter. Was wasn't outside of Point pleasant By like forty minutes. I'm only bringing this up because we mentioned birds, and for some reason this just clicked in my head this morning, and I can relate it to something last year. This morning, my wife was looking out and there was a big black crow we're going to say out in right in front of our driveway. We don't ever see them just around like I might see one flying. And it wasn't a vulture like a buzzard or anything. It was actual big black bird. But it was really big. I only seen part of it flying off, but it looked like almost size of a buzzard, but it didn't have a buzzard head. Okay, do we have ravens here? I don't know. I know ravens are huge. Maybe it was like that's a phenomenon called thunder crows, right, It looked like a very large black bird. I don't know what I've seen blackbirds, we get them all the time, but it's not it was a lot bigger than normal blackbird. And last year, which I think is creepier, I used to work over my field office was at a trailer over in Logan Sport because I always am stationed somewhere different outside on the back of my truck bed. It's a large blackbird just like kind of just sitting on it at through rocks. I don't even fly away because I didn't think anything else, like that's weird, but like like that was a really big, weird blackbird. And that was the end of it. But since we were just talking about birds, I thought of the birds sitting on the truck and I was like, well, shit, this morning, we've seen a big blackbird out of the end of her driveway. It's all connect like synchronicity, right. That term gets blown out of perfortion these days. So talking about wanting experiences so bad that I'll never get my wife had one of the coolest UFO sightings that I've heard in a long time out by us out in Wabash out in the Rich Valley area. Her parents live out there, and she was taking our kids over there. And it was in the morning, like, you know, seven at eight o'clock in the morning, so suns out driving down a country road. She looked over and saw six diamond shaped things just hovering in the air and shimmering, and you know, she looked at them multiple times and they just stayed there and she drove past them and that was it. But she told me about that, and I looked it up on the I started looking in the area on the Enigma app right, yeah, and back in like nineteen eighty it was just one but it was the exact description, a prismatic diamond shaped thing hovering over this exact field that she was at. It's like rich Valley when oh, when she saw it back, I want to say, it's going on a year now. It was like October. And then I was able to find on Enigma a report of the same thing back in like nineteen eighty six. Because this was I'll let you watch it here. This was back in June. That was in Peru. It's like a tic tac almost is it actually playing? Yeah, okay, this was sent to me by someone from town and they said they lived just on the other side of the Walbash River. Interesting, and they said the lights were spiraling like people look like rotation. They could see like the colors were kind of like rotating around it. But that's awesome. And it was big because that was going over like the way their positioned that they were on this side of the river, so they were looking over the river right. This was like one in the morning. Yeah, and it was silent, but it was really big. I mean we are in Grissom Air Base Territory. Yeah, tons of weird stuff all the time. I'm from Cocomo. We had the Cocomo Boom for a few years. Yeah, that was where my friend when he came over to record with me, he mentioned that. But in O, wait they had the big crashed UFO. I was like, Oh, it was really crashed. That's what the UFO Hunters show was out there investigating. Okay, I guess I didn't know that there was. They claimed there there would have been like a crash the police were chasing or whatever like that. If you get on YouTube, look up a UFO Hunter's Cocomo Okay, and there's an episode that was dedicated to that. Okay, because I know my high school, like cop was interviewed about the boom because he also has like Grissom Air Base clearances or something like that. So he was like saying, you know, telling him what he could tell him. But I just thought it was about the boom and I wasn't interested. Little story about GRISSLM. And I would have to ask my dad or my uncles that were stationed out there. But I've always heard rumors that under Grisly there used to be uh silos for during the Cold War. Oh yeah, they kept certain certain devices out there. I was like, I wonder if that's true, Like, I don't know if anyone that I know that I'm related to that was in the military out there, because my dad was in the Air Force, my uncles in the Air Force. Uncle still works out on base. I wonder if they had any privileged knowledge of what was underneath parmac. Probably not, but it's a strange. It's kind of weird, but all places well. During the Cold War. That was actually one of the targets I've always was told because it was a big, huge, like for the refueling. Okay, gris was like a big grism Is. Like one of the only you know, one of the special places where like Air Force one will land. So I guess that does make sense. It is one of the bar It was a big brief fueling stations and then for whatever reason, now strategically that would make sense, and now it's a it's not even active anymore. Else in this museum. They still have a guarded though, which is strange. Yeah. I have a bonehead friend that when we were in high school, we'd go, you know, driving up to ok Pinocchi and then he drove into the air Aeroplex and got got us based off by whatever you know, their security they have. We were going out there one night, and that's back when I was still in school, so it's like twenty five years ago. I was driving and I'm listening to where my friend is telling me to go because we're going to some girls house. And the next thing I know, there's these armed guards with rifles coming running out. I was like, I don't think we're in the right area, Like what are you doing? I was like, I'm listening to this guy man my passenger princess, like he's trying to go to this girl's house. Man, Like I took the wrong exit because that's when they first like started letting people live out there. So that's when my eagles point was, like, so we just went out there, and apparently we were going right towards that gate and that's a no access gates. Like, oops, can I have a bulligan? I'm only sixteen, dude, don't don't kill me, like I'm like a junior in high school. Eme. But the good old days. I was thinking though, like with the Mothman and the premonitions that people had had and everything else, like if it's actually true that people were actually seeing something out by the damn oh yeah, Like that's kind of creepy in the sense that people are seeing I was like, I don't want to go camp out there anymore, Like, but no, that's. I think it's just kind of I think it's coincidence. I don't believe in the Harbinger of doom stuff. It's a it's a sexy, you know, plot point for the story, but. There's just so much stuff. Well along with the point pleasant stuff. Have you heard of the cornstalk curse element of that whole story. I've heard I don't know what it is, but I've heard someone refer to. Okay, Yeah, there's there's plenty of I think it was the French American War was fought partially there. There was the Battle of Point Pleasant and that's like a whole part of the town history too. I think the slogan of Point Pleasant is technically where history. Oh we're legend and history meet or something like that. So there's plenty of like American history stuff along with all the Maltmann stuff. But supposedly the land was cursed after a Shawnee chief was like wrongfully like murdered. It was just like a misunderstanding, and supposedly he in his dying breath like let out a curse on the land. And so a lot of like the bad stuff that happened throughout the years has been blamed on the Cornstalk curse that they turned into being blamed on them. Off was was the chief Cornstock? Is that why they called his name? Was corn the Cornstock tricks? Okay, I remember hearing the name of Chief Cornstock. I didn't know. Yeah, if you go to Point Plea, wasn't they have a statue? Okay, maybe that's where I've seen stuff. I'm looking into it. But did they ever determine what caused the bridge to collapse. It was a faulty so it's a suspension bridge. It was a faulty eyebar that you know. I think it was just cars were getting heavier since you know the bigs. I think the bridge was built in the twenties, right, and so forty years and cars were getting bigger, and it was rush hour traffic and it was before Christmas, and I think it just had too much weight on it and it's the bar let go, and the bridge swayed and then on the point pleasant side it started to. Crumble into the water. No there forty I think forty six dead and then two were never recovered, so forty eight altogether. Okay. I remember in the movie, like the lady that didn't like those shoes, the sheriff, but obviously the movie wasn't real, right, Yeah, he was a. She was a culmination of a few different characters in the book The Mockman Prophecy. So was Will Patten's character. I can't think of who he is, Yeah, Gordon, because he was the one that was talking injured cold. Yeah, he was supposed to be the Woody Darren Berger character, which. They didn't even the guy wasn't even named John Keele in the movie was he was right, it was John Klein. It's Richard Gear And then he goes in and talks to the expert on Mothman sightings and stuff, and his name was Alexander Leak, which is an anagram that's killed backwards. So it's like a little funny ster eggs like that. But yeah, there's so many you know, if people read the Mothman Prophecies book and then are pissed off that the Mothman Prophecies movie isn't like the book is just a shit ton of anecdotes, there's no you know it. It's fashioned into a tidy narrative of, you know, the year or so that John Keel was going back and forth from Point Pleasant to New York and all the weird stuff. But he was also. There was a woman that ran a like a news column called Where the Waters Mingle. Her name was Mary Higher, and she was like his like right hand person with taking reports and finding witnesses and just gathering information and stuff like that. But Mary Hire was also a person that had premonitions, and she had like one of the more creepy ones where she was having dreams of seeing Christmas presents floating along the river, and then you know, people were Christmas shopping. The bridge went down December fifteenth, nineteen sixties seven, so it was, you know. The movie made it like his wife that I don't remember. It's been so long long ago that. They had just like bought a house and they were on their way home and she saw them offman like while driving, and she skidded out and like hit her head against the car window. And then I don't know if she had an aneurysm or if maybe they found a tumor. I don't remember how it exactly it happened. I don't remember the movie. Does she actually die? She did diet, okay, because then he after she dies. I think it's supposed to be like a little bit of time had gone by, and John Kleine is supposed to be going to Washington, DC, or maybe he's from DC. He's supposed to, Oh, he's going to like Charleston, and then he ends up in Point Pleasant and he he's pulled over and he goes to will Patten's house, and then will Patten says that he had been there like three or four nights. So there's that whole thing. Did what actually led John Keel dow? Was it because of the side of Oh how did he get involved in it? I guess John Keel was doing a story about a woman that had a cat with bat wings, and so he was in the area. He was near Point Pleasant doing the stupid story about a cat that supposedly had wings, and when he got down there, the cat's wings had fallen off, so so he was like trying to salvage a story, it sounded like. And then the newspapers ran about the kids that were chased off from the TNT. Area in the car get and the car. It also sounds like just made up at this point, just to cover, Like why was he what news agency was he for the sending him down there to cover? I think he I don't know if he was. I think technically he was freelance. It seemed like he was a guy that, you know, he would cover a story and then he would just sell it to whoever wanted a you know, a filler piece. So it almost sounds like the freaking uh, what's that old tabloid the Weekly World News? Yeah, Natural requires, Yeah, something like that, like the bat wing, Right, I don't know if any of that stuff was around back in those days, but yeah, I remember a supermarketed like bat Boy. Oh yeah, I remember that boy Clear's Day. It's funny because people have apparently now claimed that they've seen something like that, and I don't necessarily believe it, but. Yeah, I mean, if you want to, if you want to lean into it, like it could be a Tulpa type situation. You know enough people, it's it's so ingrained in the culture and the zeit guys that you know, that's a big like slender Man thing. There are so many people that claim that they've seen slender Man. Yeah, it's we know, like its origin just like the Rake. Yeah, when people play they see rakes whole time. I was like, well, if you go back to. The oldest scryptions of pale crawlers, like those were not creepy pastile because those were like even the dover. Demons you can say dover demon when to go like they're different sizes gray aliens, like different sizes but still the same build. So yeah, I mean, but at the same time with like slender Man and creepypasta type stuff like a girl was attempted, you know, the two girls did stab a girl and two girls, So in a way, like psychologically it becomes you know, the news is covering slender Man. They had a video game about slender Man. Yeah right, so I. Mean I'm not saying it's real, but there is like power to that character at that point. Siren Head Trever Henderson, Yeah, he's a buddy. So people have been reporting seeing this thing now, I'm like, that's very So. One of my favorite books is Stephen King's it just because of like, have you ever read it? I've never wrote. Okay, it's long as hell, but it's one of my favorite stories because I love like this town is cursed type stories and that's like pretty much the whole of dry Is like in between all of the penny Wise and the kids stuff, there are these interludes that Stephen King just wrote, like just lore about the town and like how awful it's always been, and it's because penny Wise has been there for you know, since the beginning of time. It just it just kind of feels like that. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like when it comes to Stephen King, a lot of people lately anymore. I don't know, I'm surprised he hasn't been canceled. For some of his old writings, it was cocaine. That's a different guy, that's Steve King. Yeah, but uh, a lot of the things that the guy I had written what type of Mind is like I'm not saying there anything wrong with like it, Yeah, but like where do you come up with some of that's cocaine? Cocaine and alcohol? Yeah, he freely puts that out there that all of his ideas were fueled by cocaine. I mean, it's just such a like bizarre dark stuff. But I bring up it because that's like, that's part of the mechanics of that story is that you know, the kids, whatever they're afraid of, is how Pennywise would show itself. So you know, I don't I don't know what that's called, but just that I think again it goes to trickster god stuff like you know. I've heard people call him like egre Gores or something like that. Yeah, I know that's that's like a Harry Potter thing too. You can tulpa like it's something like the mind, which. Is also why I think that all paranormal phenomena has like an element of co creation from it's like your your own perspective of how the world works. It almost and I'd say this every once in a while too, but like if you think about things in that aspect, it almost seems like to me almost like we have the ability to create with our own mind, which is strange because if you think about it, everyone like group that we can manifest these types of well, if you. Ever what's it called. There's a book called Mutants and Myths Mutants and something. It's it's a collection of stories from different comic book creators and writers and artists and just weird things that have happened to them. So Bernie Wrtson is one of my favorite illustrators. He's like the illustrator he has a couple of weird accounts, and then like Alan Moore has some weird accounts, and. A lot of comic. Book creators like meeting their characters in real life life. It's weird stuff like that, like before comic cons before you know, before. Before they were pop culture. Yeah, just yeah, before we got into cosplaying and stuff like that. Like these guys swear up and down that they met real versions of the character that they had created, like a team met the guy. So there's stuff like that. So I mean, it's like it's like a big Grant Morrison thing with the invisibles. Like the human mind has the tulta theory. It's just if you if you focus on something enough and believe in something enough, it'll it'll come to our reality. That's why I get nervous when I'm out here now right thinking all these stuffs. Yeah, I'm all we got here thinking of things and talking with people, and I'm like, that's part of it why I didn't want to be in the house because I want to keep everything out of it here. But like I walk outside and they have a cornfield right next to me, like fifteen feet away. I was like, what's going to come running out of the corn of those well true story? Like, no, bullshit, that's not what I'm about. But I was sitting out here the other day and I was recording someone else, and when I got done, I was editing, and while I'm editing, I hear something out here and I don't know how to describe it, but it almost sound like I thought it was maybe like the barn was settling, which it shouldn't make any noises, but like they're like a creaky noise, but it's like right outside this window. Was like, I don't want to fucking go in now, since I don't want to go outside this door because I don't want to know what's out there making this noise. So I've been parking the vehicles next to I was like, well, it's got to go around the vehicles. I've got a little bit of ly winging. Well. We were talking about how were both paranoid people. I reading reading like stories and accounts and listening to accounts about people like having premonitions essentially or just like hearing a voice in their heads saying, you know, stop, don't don't turn left and then something horrific happening. I'm always worried that I'll hear something like that and I'll just chalk it up to me being paranoid and anxious, and I'm not trust that type of thing. I've never had them. I know there are people that don't have like inner monologues. I've talked about that before, but like I hear myself thinking, oh sure, yeah, but I've never heard anyone else's voice ever come into my eyes. Yeah, I don't know if it's I guess they are described as other voices, like you hear another voice, I've never had that, Like no one I hear myself, Like, no one ever says, come in my head, hey, don't go in there, like I might think, no, I probably shouldn't go in there. Yeah, right, but like I've never heard anything. I'm sure it would be different if I experienced something like that, and I would probably be able to differentiate. But when I think about it, like when I'm already darting my eyes everywhere and thinking of every horrible outcome that could ever. Be, So, I don't know, I feel like i'd I've never been one to be afraid of the dark. Yeah, but when I'm immersed in this, Yeah, but nowadays, like when I have to go out back, like it gets really dark way out back. I was like, I've got a couple of acres back there. There's no lights, and I have to go out there and make sure my animals are put up. I'm like, and my rational brain knows that, like everything's cool. Yeah, I don't know. There's always just the I'm not so much creeped out when it's not corn. Yeah, right, when you can see them. Yeah, when there's no corn, I can see out there, but like when there's I'm surrounded by cornfields. So I was like, man, there's I've watched too many shows. Yeah right, but. That's how I'm with my true crime, like I know better, like you know, you know this is how X, Y and Z happens. I'm not going to do that, right, No, that's I've said it several times on episodes. But like when we first moved in, it died, but we we have still have two ghosts. But like one of the goats that we had when we first moved in, it had the normal horn. Yeah, the one we have now has horns, but one of them broke, so both of them kind of go this way, so they're not like the straight horn. But when I went out there one night to make sure they got put up, because when we first bought the place, we were told that the coyotes were really bad, so I wanted to make sure they got put in their barn. So I'm walking out there and it just so happened to be a very bright moon, so everything was like you could see a little bit better, and there I didn't have a security light put up like I did now on their barn, so it was dark as shit, and I'm walking out there and I just see next to this tree standing up right looked like the depiction of what everyone says is Satan because it was standing on two legs, goat head, horns and everything. I was like this, and then I'm like, I realize it's the goat. The goat was chewing the bark on the tree, but it was standing on the edge of the tree, and for me, just seeing it in the silhouette, I just like, yes, Satan. Well, yeah, like I said, I went on that like squatch hunt a couple months ago. I as an. Adult man, I have I have never just like ran around in the woods and pitch black. I absolutely understand and now how people can like churn their mind into a hysterical like episode or you know, thinking that they saw something or making something out of nothing, just like I don't know the primal fear of being, you know, in in the dark or in the woods or in the woods in the dark. Like I don't go in the woods in the daylight. Yeah, I might go disc golfing, but that's the extent of my experiences out in the woods like years ago, and this is back when I was in high school. We went out to Okpok, but we didn't like the little tear drop. We went off in the woods and we hiked through the woods and I don't know how long we walked for, but we walked so far to where I got the points, Like, I don't know what time it is because we didn't have phones back in those days, and no one we which probably a back for it gets dark. We never find our way back exactly. Have you tried to go out there recently? No, it's been shut down. Yeah, let's say nder construction for that night when we went out looking for the flyer and people humanoid things. I drove down there and it was completely you can't get down into it anymore, which is strange. It's been like I said, I think it's been years that that it's been under construction or closed down. Well, it's been closed down since they found the dead boy pulled the bodies out, So yeah, that's been I think it was twenty twenty. It's been a while they've been convicted since, Yeah, but I think it's I think it's been closed for like since twenty twenty or twenty nineteen, so I know that happened. They found the people on twenty eighteen. I think it was. Yeah, I think it happened in twenty eighteen, but then they convicted them. I feel like there were stories about murders and bodies and there's always been before that. Yeah, there was my mom who's always lived around here, knew about Okpok. That's how I found out about it, and I went out there and camped. I was like, either one afraid of this place other than it just being in the woods. Yeah, but also it's a you know, it's government land, like I don't know, they. Never had any no trespassing signs that It's always weird because before you ever got to that area, there was a house, like if you were coming from Peru, there was a house, and then there was the two pillars, and you knew where it was. Every time you get by that house, we'd always we call it the hell helm. There's always a huge black dog come running out next to the car. And obviously it was someone's dog, right, but it was a It looked like a great deane, that's how big it was. It just solid black. We never its eyes were would reflect like the headlions, but like it wasn't like the typical red eyed hell hound chasing after you. But we were always prepared for you. We were always prepared after we went out there enough times because those are our old roady roads and it would run out there and my buddies in the back of them and a door bash it. It never happened, but I was always like I wanted he did somebody because I was always the driver, because I mean, the one ever had to be. It was like, don't be bashed. I don't want to did some of my days. But I always look back now, like, man, it's so weird to think, like how dumb I was. Oh yeah, as a kid Indian who knew that we were drink Ye, who knew we were in an area where where it's gonna be murders and bodies. Yeah, there's plenty of horrific shit going on here. I went out there with a paranormal group and their meter for constantly jumping, and they made a flashlight turn on by itself to answer questions and everything. And I didn't know. Well, I live in a house that was built in eighteen sixty seven. I figured this would be the place that I'll experience something. Nope, nothing, there's a house too much love in this house people, you know, no tragedy, just regular folks living and dying here. Before we moved here, we lived in a house in Converse that was built in the eighteen hundreds, and you'd have thought that would have been the place to take creepy stuff. This house was built nineteen seventy nine, and it's the house with the creepy shit, really. So and believing the guy that lived there before us, he died in the kitchen. We've renovated everything, and he was a tinkerer, and I've cursed his name so many times in the house trying to get him, you know, pull my hair, like fuck around with us. Nothing non finished business. So like when you wanted to have it, it never will, that's the thing. And I can't like turn that off. And you know, there's the there's the I'll believe it when I see it like mentality, But I think it's it's more of a all you know, i'll see it when I believe it type thing, and I can't make myself believe it. With that, I will show you some stuff here when we get off air. But uh yeah, this house here part of the reason I wanted to get out of the house because some people try to convince me that what I do out here is bringing stuff here. Okay. I had a lady at a event a couple of weeks ago said I have a demon attached to me. And then I was like, well, this is kind of weird. And then I heard that she was telling everybody they had demons attached to him. That's because she wants money. Probably they get rid of the demon. Yeah, exercise me on the fly. Yeah, there's apparently those people too, are drifting around these events that the people I'm trying to tell them that almost like the fortune tellers now, but now they're the demon people. I love the I get so many like DM requests on Instagram of people like wanting to read my Acacak record, Like are you familiar with the whole Acacak record idea. A little bit? I see it get all the time. I don't go into any of that type of stuff just because. Well neither do I, but I just the I was kind of following that as like, you know, it's the idea that every thought, every intention, every action, every everything ever in there is in this cloud essentially, and that I was following it in the context of that's how they believe like savantism comes about. There's lots of like Mozart quotes and like Leonardo da Vinci drawing a bird, drawing a bird, drawing a bird drawing a bird drawing was a fucking helicopter out of nowhere, like that kind of stuff. So I followed it in that way. But my whole thing is I get so many dms of like these scammers or bots or something like talking about reading my Acahak record. If somebody could legitimately read the Acahak record, they wouldn't be off dming me on Instagram. They would be you know, winning the lottery and shit like that. It's a true story. You and I come from musical backgrounds. The first time I ever seen that, I actually thought it was like a record label. It's a sick name. I've seen someone talk about the Acahak Records or whatever. I was like, it's like a new label they got scouting. I was like, why are they like a record label, like in the like weird paranormals the right. No, When people were like they were putting that shit out there, I was just like, that's where my mind first goes to, like it's the old band mentalities, like when you see records. I was like, oh, so great, get to pay to be on this label, right, Samerian, Right, that's the that's the true horror stories for anyone. That my other podcast, we haven't been doing it since January, but we did Dark Side of the Scene, and that typically was a lot of the stuff we'd hear on that. Oh yeah, people's bad experience. I can't remember. There's one in particular. I can't remember what it's called, but the logo is an elephant with like plugs. Oh we are triumphant. Triumphant, that's it. Yep, that's the one I always think of when I think of scammy. That was the dismissed the serpent word. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yikes. Yeah, there's more about that I'll talk about. Offer you want to let everyone know about where you're going to be at for some of these upcoming events. Yeah, I'm off for a month. I'm doing prepping for Mouth and Festival, which is September twentieth and twenty first in Point Pleasant and it is a hell of a time every year. So I'm right next to the statue. If anybody that's listening is going to be there. I'm to the left of the statue, right against the museum wall, so. The statue where everyone comes by and slaps the butt up, yep. And also so many posals, and I feel like it's every like eight minutes, I'll here like a round of applause, and it's somebody proposing front of the off Man. The other day someone posted this and I giggled because I'm immature. It's took like a sticker of what looked like a butthole and stuck it in between the cheeks of Mothman. Finally, so Mothman now had a buttthole. Yeah, we keep having these like waves of you know, they were leaving canned beans at its feet for a while, which was great because they would just give them to the you know, food pantry, right and then they would leave a mountain dew. And then now it's loose change and it's ass crack. Now it's now it's butthole stickers, and now it's a sphinter sticker. But yeah, you can find me at Mofman Festival next month, and I think that I wrap. It up for the year after that. I'm exhausted. I don't know if you're going to be down in Louisville for the I there. Every single event that I've wanted to do is on October twelfth. Everybody is doing everything on October twelve, and I have a wedding to be at that weekend. So after mouth Man, I'm taking a hiatus until a Frogman festival in Loveland in March. Speaking of Frogman, you just did the artwork for a movie. Yeah, and we're working on Frogman two. AWESO have you seen the first one? I have not yet. I'm biased, but I think it's a lot of fun, and if they're able to pull off what is written for Frogman two, it's going to be like a monumental, like cryptid installment. Awesome. I've been one to watch frog Man, but I don't know if it's on any of the. It's it's streaming on screen Box, I think everywhere else you have to rent it, but I. Figured eventually it may be on two Ers. Yeah, eventually, I think, because it just came out in March, so it's doing it's runs and we just released a a Blu Ray special Edition Blu Ray for it that comes out next month. And we've been doing BHS releases because it's found footage. We're on our We're about to do our third wave of VHS. I wish I still had a vc O, right, I had to dust mine off I used to have. I have no idea where the hell that thing is, but I had so many payers come back. I hope it's like records and we'll start getting you know in the DHS for. Most of my Monster movie stuff for all vhs. Because I'm a product of the eight early age, I. Love physical media. I have to have you know. So for me even today, like I struggle because I used to have bunches and bunches of CDs, like that's how I listened to music, and everyone's like nowadays it's on your phone. Even before, like I started the show, I never listened to podcasts. Yeah, like I had no interest in it. I literally thought doing a podcast was like people just talking about whatever. And I thought when I made up this idea during Lockdown era that this was going to be like a great thing. No one did it. It is oversaturated. It's like I found out, like everyone freaking out, Yeah I want to do a podcast. And then I started to read the room. I was like what the hell am I gonna be able to offer that somebody else isn't already doing. I don't know, but I did notice the other day, and I don't know how accurate this thing is, but everyone judges podcast by listen notes, which is like where they rank their stuff at. I'm like, I'm ranked top three percent of all podcasts. I was like, hell, yeah, that on Spotify or is it? It's global Global, so according to I don't know how they make their numbers that I was thinking too, but you know, yeah, like I've been in the top five percent since December last year. Now I'm now I'm at three percent. I was like, a good name, you know, well that's what's funny. Like, and people get mad at this name because it says that I make fun of people with it. It's just I was like, no, if you listen to what we talk about, literally, I have the umbrella to talk about anything. Yeah, I mean, well, it's like, yeah, that's true. Yeah, tinfoiltails is pretty all encompassing. But like, I don't think it's disparaging. I think we. Even uithologists back in the day that was like that's the thing, that's it's a it's a stereotype or a you know, it's a trope for. A reason, like for me, like the concept is I can talk about conspiracies, I can can talk about aliens, I can talk about cryptis, I can talk about paranormal It's all encompassing. Right, what am I supposed to call it? Like fringe tales? Right now? That would be yeah. But for some reason I thought I didn't know that there was a podcast I should have thought about. But like ten Foil Hat is a huge with Sam Tripley is like a huge conspiracy podcast. I didn't do any research when I made this show name or when I made the show, I was like, I'm just doing a podcast because I have recording stuff and I don't have a band, right, yeah, it works, so here I am. I was like, I have all this this was from recording, all this stuff. This was from the band stuff, Like I had all this stuff for band makes sense and I wasn't in a band. I was like, so I'm going to do a podcast. I actually talk with Matt Napp quite a bit from a Bigfoot Crossroads and I was telling him about like why He's basically said something about how I'm like the most fucked up type of a podcast because I'm not a podcast, like I literally just I just did it because I had nothing else to do. So like I'm just I make a podcast, and hearing I was like, you know it works, Yeah, you got it. I enjoy doing it. Yeah, but do you want to let anyone know where they can find your artworks and everything out too? Yeah? I mostly operate out of Instagram. Twitter freaks me out, and Facebook is way too censored. Censor but just I don't know, no, they don't. The interface for Facebook isn't kind to artists, right, like Instagram is starting to get the point where it's not kind of artists. And then TikTok is way too much of a fucking trip. Then I don't even mess with I have one. I don't even have to. But you can find me on Instagram at Easton Hawk Illustration. I will put that in the show. It's fair wane to check it out if anyone again, like I said, if you look at any of the pictures I've posted or anything for like live videos, which I don't really have live videos that often unless I do a live stream, you can see all the artwork behind me. But no, it's you were like my favorite cryptid artists. So it's a tool that you are. Yeah, so close close, And we knew each other before any of the exactly. So I think you were like I think I first met you at a show, probably like yeah, back when I was living in Cocomon. Yeah, that's probably in high school. I think you were. You were friends with the. Is it Kyle Yeah, Kyle Harris yeah, and from Daylight Boys, right, yeah, we we played at his house. Oh yeah, Foster House. Ye, yeah, we played there in like twenty ten. I think so good times. Yeah, it's funny that we now were both in the same field. Technically, Yeah, I don't. I don't. It's strange for like for me and how people are like, dude, shut up. But like I don't even consider myself a podcaster because it's not anything I ever really set out to do. Right, It's just I don't know. It's an alternative radio show. No, Like, I don't know. I'm weird. It works Like for me, I was like, I'm still I miss music. Oh yeah, I'm back and forth. After after the pandemic, when everything slowed down, I realized how much I love not tearing down drums and setting up drums and traveling and setting up drums and tearing down drums and the driving home and you know, doing it over and over and over again. And that is why we don't have a band anymore. If a drummer, we didn't have a drummer anymore. Well, I went from being the like stereotypical hard times drummer that's in like six different bands, and now I am complete. I'm avoiding people that I play music with because you know, I have time for one hobby and I'm obviously going to change was the hobby that makes me money and I actually enjoy. So I'm sure I'll get the itch to play again at some point. But the other point is there is no money in playing music. Well, yeah, that's for sure. There's fairly money in making crypto art. But everyone thinks that you make money in podcasting. I was like, no, yeah, make a podcast. Then, yeah, make a podcast. You'll see if you make money. All right, It's ill. It's like music, you invest thousands of dollars into, you know. And now thousands of dollars in security. But now it's uh, their money pits. Hobbies are money pits. Oh yeah, but good way to buy your time, all right, say that that or go crazy? Yeah right, runner Way, well Easton, Yeah, they're letting me come ramble in your shed for a couple hours. Right. It's a I enjoy being able to actually talk with someone in personality. Like the very first episode I ever recorded was in person with my friend Ed, and then I had one other interview with my friend Dalton, and then other than that, everything's just been remote. Right, which I think is also why we haven't been able to sync up, because if I'm at home, there's a thousand other things I don't do, and you know, I have to put my daughter back in bed eight times every night, and you know, it's just hard to walk down. That's why I also wanted to get out of the house because my kids sleep downstairs where I was recording, and I'm right outside my son's door and he's like, here's me talking about stuff and light your shut. I was like, I don't want to about dog man. Yeah, I'm giving him nightmares and he's thinking aliens are going to come up duct him or some craziness. So it's just like whatever. But but yeah, this is fun. It's nice to do this in person. Yeah, but yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you, and for anyone listening. Thanks for listening, Thanks for listening to us ramble for about two hours. But I hope you guys enjoyed the episode, and we'll check you out on the next one. And that it's to show everyone. I really hope you guys enjoyed the conversations. If you would like to be a guest on tenfoil Tels, remember to send an email to tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com or go to the contact section of tenfoiltales dot com. Just get your message to me. We'll get some schedule for a future episode. And just remember the truth lies and the stories we share, the connections we make, stay curiously open minded. Thank you all for joining us on this journey. And until next time, keep questioning, keep seeking, and keep exploring the unknown. Good Night, everyone. Seems on sales and the headphones. Yeah, it's turns rock. Got a story about a cryptic creature. Let's take a look big foot Ummer. They're out there in the talk, but the truth is out there. Liking l as fuck, UFO sidings got the whole. World show. Conspiracies phons like a story in the book me consult sign to keep us. We're all gonna use the whole mind in the history. They don't want us to know the secrets that hide since they will show so they know society. They keep us in chase. But then in time it's time to break the reins control trying to keep us fine, but I won't before are gonna use my mind. In history. They don't want us to know the secrets that hide, since they will show domain of society. They keep us in changed the sand in talks sound to break the reins H