Ep. 148: Champ, The Lake Champlain Monster

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most, where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw. The top of the muzzle, noose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to tenfoil Teals. I'm your host, Brandon Wright tonight's guests. We're gonna be joined by Katie Elizabeth. She is a researcher and one of the most experienced people when it comes to champ the Lake Champlaine creature that could be living out in the waters. I've always wanted to dive into topics involving sea monsters and lake monsters, so this is another one off my bucket list that I get to check off because something that's always fascinating me as a kid, I always wanted to go look for NeSSI and the Lockness and all that other good stuff. But I haven't had the opportunity to speak with anyone that's ever had a siding or anything like that. So I'm definitely looking forward to talking with Katie. But before we bring her on, if you've ever had an experience and you'd like to be on an episode of ten Foil Tells, there's a couple things you can do. You can either send an email to Tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com, or you can go to tenfoiltales dot com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out and we will get something schedule for a future episode. If you'd like to help podcast out, I asked you to share it around. Word of mouth is the best way of getting the podcast out there to new listeners, and for every new listener is a potential new guest. You can also help out by leaving a five star ratio and review wherever you listen to ten Foil tels at. Just click the five stars and it helps with the podcast rankings and it makes it more discoverable for anyone out there that could potentially find the podcast. This past weekend, I was at the Indiana Bigfoot Conference. Met a lot of interesting people and met some listeners. I definitely appreciate that. But I will give a shout out to Kathy Gill come out and talk with me for a while. It's nice to meet you. Glad that you're a listener of the show. I also want to say thanks to Leroy Now and Debbie Sims for putting it on. Definitely looking forward to next year's and for all the speakers and everyone else that I did meet. It was a great time. Glad I got to talk to some of you guys. Hopefully we get something scheduled for episodes here in the future. I may sound a little bit under the weather, but I guess that's a topic for a different episode. Maybe I'll go down that rabbit hole on this one. But to finish things up here, just want to say I appreciate everyone that listens to Tenfoil Tels. There's some cool things going on. I don't want to ruin anything or spoil anything, especially when it's not even one hundred percent confirmed yet, but I'm working on some things in the background and hopefully it'll improve the show and we'll just see what happens. We're gonna go ahead now and bring Katie on. Like I said earlier, I'm definitely looking forward to talking with her. This is a topic that has always been one of the things since my really childhood I've been fascinated with, So definitely looking forward to it, and I hope you guys enjoy the conversation. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. I'd like to take this time and welcome my guests tonight. Katie, thanks for coming here talking to me. Thank you so much for having me on this show. It's a pleasure. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself? Okay, Well, my name is Katie Elizabeth. I am the president and founder of Champ Search, an organization that's dedicated to studying, proving the existence, most importantly, protecting the unique species of animals that call New York in Vermont's beautiful Lake Champlain home. These animals known as champ and yes, there is more than one creature inhabiting unknown creature inhabiting Lake Champlain. Now, this is a topic that I've definitely been looking forward to getting into because lake monsters or sea service or anything like that that's even as a small kid, like the lock Nest Monster is like a huge thing for me. So I don't know a whole lot about Champ for some reason, like it's not something that I've ever really like dove into a look more into like lock Nests and I did any of the other ones, which is weird because I'm here in America. But would you like to kind of go over a little bit about it for people that aren't necessarily familiar what it actually could be? Sure, let's see, Well, there's many theories to what these animals could possibly be. The most common one, of course, is the pleasiest war, which is an ancient reptile. It goes back millions and millions of years ago. That's what I call the romantic theory Champ and NeSSI Ogokogo and other late creatures around the world. There's other theory that they could be zougo downs, which are ancient whales. There's an other There's so many different theories that that people are have come up with, and I like to think outside the box and with the data that I've collected since twenty twelve, when I had my first experience of a creature on Lake Champlain. I've come up with a theory that is outside the box only because of the data that I have collected. And so I'll start at the beginning when I had my experience. I'll start at the very beginning, when I had my interest in Champ first that got me up to Lake Champlain. So I was seven years old and I was watching an episode of Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack. He always made the program with his amazing voice, mysterious voice. I saw the episode about Champ on that episode, and it was really interesting because the head and neck photo that Sander Mancy took in nineteen seventy seven popped up on the screen and I just was so fascinated by this photograph and I yelled my mom, Mom, I want to go up to Lake Champlain. There's a dinosaur there, and that's all I could think of as a child at seven years old. So my mom pulled out the old ram McNally map and she's like, well, it's about five hours away, we'll go there one of these days, and kind of brush it off to the side and it wasn't until twenty twelve, all these years later, I finally cut up to Lake Champlain, and it was really strange because when I did get up there, I felt like I was at home. It was the weirdest feeling where I had almost felt like I had been there before and I was taken away at one point I was back. It was really really odd, but I felt really at home there. And that that weekend we spent a coup. I think it was three or four days, but we had left on a Friday, and the next day and the next day it was Saturday, and Sunday the weekend, I remember I was looking out at Button Bay, which because I was staying at Button Bay Stay Park with some friends and a couple of the friends were bigfoot researchers, and at the time I was doing paranormal investigating, which I don't do anymore because of various reasons. We'll get talking about that later. But it was amazing because the second day I was there, I had my first experienced, my first sighting of something that I could not explain. I've grown up in Rhode Island, the Ocean state, and I'm familiar with boat wakes and whales, and dolphins. I do study cetaceans currently for marine bioacoustics and marine biology. At the time, I seen this hump rise to the surface of the water around the bay, and I was like, what the hell is that? And I kept trying to think logically. Of course, so it's probably a big otter or beaver or some kind of snake. That's all I could think of. But it started moving in a vertical undulation, which is really strange to me. There was no head and neck. Those sightings are extremely rare when they do happen, so it was really strange to me. And of course it didn't have my camera on me as always, but in twenty fourteen I did, and I did get a video of a champ animal crossing Button Bay that's been on many programs on the History Channel, Discovery Channel, et cetera. So it was really really cool that I managed to get something on camera a couple of years later, Thank God for that, and that kind of helped with people saying that I was absolutely crazy and I didn't know what the hell I was talking about. I didn't know what I was seeing. So that experience is what sparked me to start my organization champ Search. Since then, I actually launched a couple other projects. One is the International Dracontology Alliance, and that is basically the study of lake creatures around the globe. So it's more than just champ NeSSI Ogo Pogo Memphrey. Memphrey is another creature that's not too far from Lake Champlain. Actually about two and a half hours in Lake Memphor megag say that about five times in a row walks exactly. It's it's a Native American name, so it's a it's a very strange lake. It's very very dark Late Champlains not that clear. Some areas are clear than others. But in the summertime when these sightings are happening, is very very green because of the algae content over at Lock Nest. There's a problem there with visibility with the peak content that happens over there, so it's very brownish in color. And it's just amazing how these lake creatures late these really murky lakes, and it's really difficult to get anything on the underwater cameras. I do have underwater cameras that I use during my research. I have an underwater rob that goes down to three hundred and fifty feet deep. What else do I have. I've got a hydrophone system to record underwater sounds. I also have game cameras that I set up around the lake, in the marsh systems, in particular, because there have been many reports of these creatures, believe it or not, being seen on land and running across roads, which is really strange. And there are quite a few across the globe about the same phenomenon over locked ness. There was a Spicer account of George Spicer and his wife driving down the road and a nessie crossing the road kind of like an inchworm in a vertical undulation. So there's quite a few reports like that, and I believe it's because these animals are, if not the same species, something in the same family, so to speak. I've always wanted to I speak for probably a lot of people. I've always wanted to see something like that. But I'm also the type of person that's afraid of water, so. It's yeah, I'm the type. It's kind of funny, probably because I've had so much data that I've collected. I'm not afraid of women in the lake. I'm afraid of the lamb prey they live in the lake. They're like this. I don't know if you know what lamb prey are, but they're really nasty looking. They're very small, eel looking like creature with a round mouth with all these little teeth around in a circle form, and they basically they're like a leech. They'll leach on to fish and suck all the fluids out. It's pretty nasty, and they do attack swimmers. There's a lot of marathon swimmers that have gone across the lake and they've got an attack by these things. So that's what I'm afraid of. It's not necessarily the champ animals. I think they're more afraid of us than we are of them. So yeah, having a fear for water, you do overcome it, though, I think you gotta go out there and go in the water more. This past summer, a couple of months ago, I rented a pontoon boat for my friend's bachelor party, and I did get out in the lake. That's kind of around here. I've never heard of any stories of anything stalking these lakes, so I wasn't too afraid of that other thing, like you just mentioned. I was afraid of leeches or other things that are in normal in the waters that kind of creep me out in general, like swimming with fish just seems strange to me. I don't know why, but like just dark, murky water where I can't see the bottom's just never been a just freaks me out. Yeah, I'm more of the type likes the clear water down where I live. Now, I go up to the lake in the summer. I was living on the lake full time. I get tired of the nasty winters and vermonts. I said, you know what, I'm going to go down to health and just go up during champ season, which starts in the spring. The best time to see these animals is from June until September. Best months are I think July, August, September. I seem to have a lot of luck in August for some reason. It's a lot well the water itself. I think these animals are ectothermic and ectothermic creatures. You're talking turtles, frogs, amphibians, and reptiles. They need the outside temperatures to sustain their inner core temperature to keep moving. And I've logged a lot of these different water temperature readings and they coincide with when the most sightings are. And then on the other hand, you've got to think of two. In the summertime, you got more people out on the lake too, But there have been some strange reports around December and January, but very very rare. I've never gotten a sound recording of these creatures in the wintertime. I've done a lot of ice fishing. I put the hydrophone system down when I'm fishing to listen for sounds, and it's just really, really, really quiet. So I think, like the turtles, they go into a torpor like state where they're not eating and they're slowing down, and in the meantime, the fish are replenishing at that time, and if they are a type of reptile or amphibious creature, they don't need to eat all the time to sustain. I mean, there's been crocodiles and alligators that have gone a year to a year and a half without food and survived. So if we were dealing with a cetacean species like whale or dolph and number one, we'd see them all the time surfacing Number two, they would be more social and they would be eating Lake Champlain on a house at home, so that's just my theory. Anyway, Now, when you've had your sightings and everything, what all did you actually see in it? Like that you could definitively say you for sure saw something, because I know a lot of people like to toss out when they see things. Though, you saw like an otter, which is strange to me that people would mistake an otter for a larger creature or the most notorious thing that I've seen that people are always trying to say is like you saw a piece of wood floating like a log, Yeah. It's floating lows well. During the my iseliating, it was really good, to the point where there was a sailboat worn in the background to use for scale size, and that sailboat was around twenty feet in the length, and this was about fifteen feet in length of what I can see at the surface of the water. I had other people with me. One of them was in my paranormal group, and the other two were big footers, and I'm like, you, guys, do you see that? And they're like, oh, that's cool, Like they had no interest. I'm like, what are you crazy, Like it was just it was weird, but they were like, that is strange. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but you know, growing up in the ocean, stay on the water, I'm familiar with floating logs and such, and especially now that I'm a captain of my own research vessel, we got to keep an eye out for those things that we don't hit the boat with. We don't be hitting the prop and ruining the prop. I'm always keeping an eye out for stuff like that. And there happened a couple of strange reports by word of mouth over the years of boats hitting chant animals or one running into a boat. Those reports go back probably I think the last time I had heard something about one being run into or basically running into a boat, I think it was abound twenty years ago. But before that, a lot of them were back in the eighteen hundreds, and it seemed like the eighteen hundreds were really, really busy, busy time for a chance there was probably more of them in the lake. I mean, if you've ever flown over a Lake Champlain, you would be totally shocked and amazed how huge it is. And it still shocks me to this day when I fly into Burlington Airport and I look down at that lake and how vast it is, and I'm like, how the hell, How the hell did I get echo location recordings, video and stonear as well. And it's I think because I was, you know, I'm out on the lake all the time. And also the only Champ researcher in history that's ever had their own boats. Like nobody else ever freaking had a boat. It's like, I don't get it. But it's expensive. All of this stuff costs a lot of money. But it's my passion and what I love to do. And the most important thing is the protection aspect, because in twenty eighteen, I wrote a Champ blaw that was passed by New York State legislature. So that was a really amazing seat and accomplishment for me, And it was because of all the data that I had collected, plus of course the eyewitness reports of the locals. I mean, some of these locals that have had reports over the years I've been fishing there their whole lives. They're eighty years old, and they a lot of people are really hesitant to talk about seeing something because they're afraid of ridicule. But at that point, when you're eighty and ninety years old, I don't think they really give a crap, you know, they're just like whatever, they don't believe me. I don't care. I'm not going to be I have nothing to lose at this age, you know. But I think those reports with the older people and the reports with the mass sightings that really really grab my attention because you're dealing with multiple people seeing the same thing at the same time. It's not just one person that happened to be drunk. Like I hate this whole thing when people say, oh, so and so must have been drunk when they saw a chant hahaha. Or the other comment is people walking out of the bar and seeing something. Because there was Overport Henry, New York, for example, there was Bullwogga Bay Bar. It's not there anymore, buildings still there, but it's closed a long time ago. But they used to joke with people that have had sightings in the area and saying, you must have been at the bar, and it's like, damn. I mean, in the past, I've drunk at the lake. I've never seen a damn thing, you know. It's like, if anything, I think that people that are drunk aren't even aware of much. Really. I mean, I think you're gonna be doing some kind of psychedelics if you see, Wow, a hundred foot long creature, which is not what these animals are. The one hundred foot long monster stories is just a bunch of nonsense. And it makes me so mad that these stories that they come out with, Oh, this one hundred foot long creature. It's like the average size is fifteen to thirty five feet, which is very large for chant animal, very rare occasion where one has been that large. But I think maybe what's happening is people are seeing multiple creatures one behind the other, thinking it's just one creature. They could be seeing weights that go for a long, long stretch of the lake as well. They're sturgeon in the lake, but they are endangered. They grow up to seven feet and there's not that many of them left in the lake. So I mean, I know with my video, my soon and our stuff and all of that's been analyzed by scientists and Discovery Channel, History Channel, Travel Channel, whole bunch and stated authentic that they are totally baffled what what I'm coming up with in Lake Shamplain, because there's no animal lake Champlain that should be echo echo locating, but there definitely is, so I'm not the only person who's captured echo location in the lake. There was a woman named Elizabeth von muggin Dollar and she was on Monster Quest. I was friend with her and she had done recordings as well. She was a bioho'stition. So you're not dealing with just like it's just me getting stuff. I mean, there's other people getting echo location. My friend William dray Guinness who had passed away unfortunately, he had done some echo location well, very similar to what I have and what Liz has, So we're not dealing with just some crackpot making this stuff. There's it's just there's definitely population of these creatures in the lake, and it was my I felt like it was my duty to be their voice because I mean, they're probably the last of their kind because they're not in every lake lake menphor magog. I believe there's the same type of animal in that lake, whether or not they're connected by tunnels. That's another thing that people have come up with for theories. There was a really interesting story at a lake call Lake Willoughby in the northeast Kingdom of Vermont, and Lake Willoughby is probably about two hours, not about two and a half hours. Mefro Magog from Champlain is probably two hours forty five minutes. They're about menhor Magog and Willoughby are probably about twenty minutes from each other, fifteen to twenty minutes. The interesting part about Lake Willoughby is it's extremely clear. I mean it's it looks like Caribbean. I took a picture swimming there and everybody's like, oh, you're down on the Bahamas and I'm like, no, oh, I'm in Vermon. They're like, get the hell out. That's crazy. It's a glacial lake. It goes down to three hundred and fifty feet and it's only five miles long. It's kind of like a crater the lake. It's strange. And then since Lake Memphremagong isn't too far away, there's a couple of other lakes echo Lake Crystally, one more Lake Seymour that there have been sightings of these things in those lakes, and I often wondered maybe they're connected to each other somehow, because back in the eighteen hundreds there was a a horse I'm not even trying to think of like how to say this, there was a coatino horses that were carrying across the lake when it was frozen blocks of ice and they fell through the ice. Then they broke through and just disappeared. Nobody knew what the hell happened. They didn't come floating up, but they did a week later, excuse me, over in Crystal Lake down the road. So they're like, how the hell did they end up over here? So there is a theory that there are some tunnels that are connecting lake menformegog like Willoughby Lake, Seymour, Crystal Lake and Echo Lake. So it's kind of strange, and you wonder over in Scotland, you've got Lochness of course, but you also have Loch Morale Lock, Locky Loch Oil. Uh. There's so many of these locks where these animals have been seen, and you wonder if that's the same thing that's going on over in Scotland. Heard some people recently toss out the idea that these things are and this is you have this with Bigfoot, and you have this with other things too. But like they're not necessarily from here, Like they're not on the same they're not on the same frequency levels that we are in our existing plane. So I don't want to say they're entered. That's what I've been hearing a lot of people toss out these ideas of what sea monsters are, which again I remained skeptical on a lot of stuff in general. So I don't know one way or the other. But I can't see everything seems to be the unexplainable. Lateliest turned into these inter dimensional different frequency type aspects, so I was like, I almost feel like that's just throwing something out there because you can't explain it. Yeah, I agree, I don't believe. I believe what we're dealing with here is definitely a biological species. The recordings and whatnot, although there are some people that have gotten in the paranormal world, have gotten underwater recordings of like what Pearl Harbor is and shipwrecks and gutten actually EVPs on hydrophone systems, which is really really interesting. Like I said, I don't deal with the parent almost anymore. I had a few strange experiences is eating some stuff and afterwards had some strange things that happened at home. I believe that whatever was followed me, So I don't really do that stuff anymore. I'd rather stick to a cryptid and if Champ and the Champs follow me home, I'm gonna be really happy about it. I'm let's be freaked out in the middle of the night with Bosce it's turning on and footsteps in my house. But I definitely believe that there is a little bit of a spiritual thing around these creatures. The only reason why I believe that is because the Native Americans around Champlain and a Lake memphor Mega, and also you know the North American lakes. Of course, they always talked about these horn serpents. And what's really interesting about that is they said that the creator created specifically these creatures, specifically Champ the chant animals to protect Lake champ Clain. Now, when I had gotten my stonar images in twenty nineteen, and then in twenty twenty two, I got a stone Arm video because I upgraded my I was gonna say hydrophone, I upgraded my stonar system to video. So the show's movement. The only bad side to that is you can't go very fast doing that with the scans, so it's kind of hard to keep up with him. If they are around, they can get away very quickly. So I went out with my friend who since passed away, and for chilling my friend Frank Corton, who had on land sighting on the Champ on the beach. I had met him at an event called champ Day over in Fort Henry. We got chatting and it was totally amazed at his sighting, and of course there was another woman that I met that and had an online sighting as well. So we got talking and he, you know, he just became friends and then he joined. So we were out on the lake and I said to him, I said, Frank, you know, because he was Cherokee Indian, and I said, Frank, could you do like the little ceremony something to summon the horn servants And he was like, head, it won't hurt, you know. So he took out his abbal on the shell in his stage and his eagle feather and he did a chant and I have it on video, which is kind of cool. And it was crazy because within the hour we had gone up north from where we were in Fort Henry. We turned around the boat because we realized that the freaking boat was running out of gas. The boat was in nineteen eighty eight, and the gas gage kind of jumped up and down and I didn't realize, so I slowed the boat down that we were very very low on fuel. Oh the lord. So I'm like, guess we're gonna go back and get gasped. Kind of stucks when we had a fault to cascage on the boat. So I turned the boat around. And when I turned the boat around, him and Theresa, his wife, started yelling, well, he just saw something rise three feet out of the water. It was black, and I'm like, I couldn't really hear them too good. I'm like, what because of the motor, and they repeated it again and I said, oh, it was probably just the weight. Because I turned around, thinking these guys are crazy, you know. So I get that about halfway down the lake with them and Frank, what the hell is out on the screen And I look at the screen and there's these two long looking things on the bottom. I don't know, but I'll take a picture of it. So I took a snapshot because in the sonar unit at the time has a memory card and you can do you can do snapshots of all the images. And we had taken previously fifty six other images and we're going along school of fish and whatnot, whatnot. The screen was very, very small, so it's hard to make anything out, and then you get out on the computer and you can blow it up and enhance it. So we finally got back to the dock and said, hell with it, we'll try to get tomorrow. And it was it was really hot out that day. I think it's like ninety degreeze out. So I went back home and I'm just like having coffee the next morning and going over the stone oar images, and then came across the one a stone our image and like, okay, so I zoomed into it and I was totally in shock because one of them just looked like this long, swiggly thing, and then the other one had a face, had nostrils and these round like protuberances on top of the head, and I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Am I imagining this? This is crazy? And I know that I wasn't imagining it because three weeks later I got the second image of them swimming underneath the boat, and the one in the front, same kind of face, just worry because it's swimming. It was amazing because I had gone back to the location where i'd got in the first image because I wanted to rule out it was a you know, logs laying on the bottom of course, and I said, well, if it's logs, it's logs. I'm going to go back to the same location and debunk this whole thing. So I did, and the logs kind of they were gone. And then going up the lake further, there's these two things under the boat and I know, you've got to be freaking kidding. These same shape, same size, So that was just amazing. And then in twenty twenty two, i'd gotten a video, a sonar video of one. It's really strange because at first I thought it was a sturgeon because of how the image looks at first, but then if you slow it down, you can see that the neck extends like an accordion. It's the weirdest thing. And you can see appendage moved back like a paddle, and the wedding move look like almost like an allergator's foot, like the way an alligator swim, And everybody's like, what the hell is that? That's crazy to see, like the leg move That's why I wanted this military great stonar that does video, because I wanted to show the movement The only downside too, it is you gotta go super duper slow. That gives them a chance to get away pretty quickly. Uh So you have to go slow, and you only have so much of that stonear beam that they have to be right in it. It doesn't cover as much as the traditional sonar imagery. So that was pretty damn interesting, and that made worldwide dus even in Germany. It was kind of funny because I have cousins in Germany and they were really surprised to see I didn't even know. I never talked to anybody who were there about it. They had just happened to find the video and I ward the mouth. I yes, it ended up on German news, so it's pretty pretty amazing. So I did get something this year last week that I haven't shown anybody yet. So anybody listening, and by the time this comes out, it will be if you google by name Katy Elizabeth champ search or Katy Elizabeth Champ Lee Champlain, you'll probably see that we captured echo location, and that's something we have not gotten since twenty eighteen. But this echolocation is quite different because there's a distinct buzzing sound in between that buzzing sound is something when I've recorded wales and dolphins, once in a while you'll get this buzzing sound and scientists really don't know exactly what they think is for when they're about to snatch prey. So it's very similar to that. And I'm doing a comparison video with the sounds and comparing that to whale and dolson. Now that I believe we're dealing with the cestation species, but I think it's something that these animals have developed over time through evolutionary adaptation. Anyway, you have to remember is Lake Champlain used to be in arm of the Atlantic Ocean and it's indirectly connected down up through the Saint Lawrence River. And what's really interesting is it was home to beluga whale and a beluga whale skeleton was unearthed in eighteen forty nine by Zadig thoms Actually zach Thompson studied it, but it was a railroad crew that had found it and they thought it was the skull and bones of an ox or horse. And then they got a hold of Zadak Thompson and he confirmed it was a Belouga whale. From ten to twelve thousand years ago when it was once the champlaint In city. So this area is actually home to the oldest coral reef in the world. That's another thing to think about. The other thing that's really amazing too, is that it's also home to ancient fish that are still in there today. You have both in gar and sturgeon, and those three species of fish go back one hundred million years. So I don't understand why I send people that the whole thing. They think that it's just totally impossible for a species of large animals inhabiting like Champlain are still there from millions of years ago. But there's fish that are in the lake that are still there. So, like I always say, nature has a way. There's other ones that are supposedly offshoots of I've heard you mentioned in the beginning, But like Wells used to have before they were considered Wales, there were meant millions of years ago. I don't know the exact timeframe, but I know like Wells used to be on land. Yes, yes, I was, I was actually going to talk about the evolutionary thing. Yeah, Wales used to be on land and then they adapted to the to the ocean. Nature has a way. And you know, with the champ animals, I don't believe that they're citation at all because we see them coming up for air all the time. They be more social. That's our modern incitations. Of course, whatever these animals are, I think directothermic. Like I mentioned earlier, there's been some online reports and then sunbathing as well, and the only animals that really sunbathe are you know, you have seals that our mammals, they will go out for the sun and stuff. But I think bbcing them all the time if they were a type of mammal, unless there's some strange hybrid of mammal reptile, who the hell knows. The evolution is kind of funny. I think there's a lot about it that we really are gonna find out more about. And I think that you know, a lot of people have asked me this question, if there's these animals in the lake, where the hell are they dead lake? Where do they go when they die? And that is a good question. You know, we don't have these things washing up on shore due to their size. I think that they just sink to the bottom. I mean, when you watch on the History Channel the swamp people, when they shoot the alligators that they have to go and grab the alligators quickly with a treblehook before they send to the bottom because they're still muscular and so heavy. Although there are some alligators that do that are found floating around, but usually by the time anybody finds anything, they're all mostly devoured anyway, kind of like when bigfoot people, theorize that maybe they bury their dead, but when the champ animals, I think maybe they go into the mud, maybe they go into caves when they know it's their time, because animals do know when their time is up. I had a friend that had a cat. He couldn't find her one day and she actually buried herself, which was, Oh my god. I was like, they're going to be kidding me, and then she passed away a few days later. It was really sad. But I think that animals do know. Sea turtles go into caves to die as well, so there definitely is a way. I don't think we're dealing with just something paranormal. I really don't, because there's been traps found four tote webbage footprints of these animals as well near the swamps. I found some very strange prints myself that I had photographs of and cut throughs in the marsh. Of course, there's beavers and otters that cut through with snakes and stuff like that that so you got to consider that. But the princes themselves are really interesting. And the Mars system is around like Champlain. There's over three hundred thousand acres in marshland. It's crazy how huge. And I had brought my friend Dave Shili, who does the skunky research down here in Florida, up to the lake and he's done tons of research in the Everglades looking for the Stone Gabe, and he's very familiar with alligators and pythons and such. So I said, hey, you know, I'm going to take him up to the mark and just kind of throw them around and see if he picks up on anything. I didn't even tell him what I wanted his opinion on. So I took him to this marsh, this stilm where these animals have been seen, particularly at night, and he was like, wow, these cut throughs are really really strangers. They remind me of alligator tracks, like through the through the vegetation and stuff. But he was quite fascinated by the vastness of the swamps around the lake. The lake is still huge. I mean there's people that come up on a whim and they're like, Oh, I'm gonna go try to find Champ or whatever, and then get out there and they say to me, you've got to be kidding me. How the hell do you do this lake? Where do you? Where do you go? And how do you start? It's like finding a needle in a haystack. But I go by their reports and figured out the hot spots, and I have this specific area that I go to, and I'm very particular about I don't tell anybody where only because I mean, go to Boughton Bay, like I just tell in one place. You know, I have like a certain certain special spots where I've gotten stone, arm and stuff. But it's to me, it's about the protection aspects, and a lot of people really don't understand them. But there's been people that have said, oh, I'll shoot one, or there's been newspaper reports one in particular where this lady was in her seventies and she actually shot at what she thought was Champ and I ended up being a seven foot long sturgeon and it washed up two days later. So that was pretty interesting, But there are people that would do anything to just prove or disprove that these things are there. And I believe it's my duty to help protect them because I'm a nature that I'm into the conservation aspect of the lake and whoever. I know, I'm always picking up garbage, and I think that's something that needs to be addressed in big football. Like you don't really hear or anybody talk about that, Like we need to focus on protecting our environments. It's always about well I saw this one at this conference. I'm going on that conference. Wow, I have a conference that raises money for like, say you buy a ticket, you plan to treat stuff like that, you know. I think that's what really that should be the focus of instead of just you know, the glorification and going out of the woods and yelling and screaming. I don't think that the research should be about that. I honestly don't know what they plan on finding by yelling and screaming, Because if it's an elusive creature going out there giving away your location, I'm pretty sure it's not going to come to you. But you know, television, television's television. I mean, you watch these shows and so many people think that how do you put it? A lot of it's it's entertainment, that's it, and people don't get that. They really don't get that. And I mean, I've been on quite a few programs. I always tell them, write out the production companies. I've got a couple of rules here. I do not I will not participate in any type of hoaxing or face agree. There's no way I'm going to do that because they take too much pride in what I do and all the hard work that I've done to collect the data that I have. It means too much to me. But you know, you got that's just the way TV is. They try sometimes and I refuse quite a few times when they'd come up with stupid ideas like Nope, I'm not doing that. Not happening. So there are people out there that think everything they see is right, you know, real, and they usually hype things up sometimes. But every program I've been on, I've told them that I'm not going to do that, not going to happen. Yeah, it's kind of kind of stupid how they do that, But that's entertainment and that's what it needs to be treated as his entertainment. I've always said for shows like and I'm just naming finding Bigfoots, that's the first one that comes to mind. Yeah, if they actually found Bigfoot, they would't have a show anymore. So I always feel like when you watch these shows, there's never really anything discovered, Like they might find a clue here there, just like I used to watch the show but I stopped watching it where they've been drilling looking for the money pit. I can't think of what it's called, Cursefoak Island. Oh yeah, that show has been on for like twelve years. Now. At what point are they going to find something or they just everyone keeps coming back because they might find a piece of dirt or a piece of wood that could be from like seventeen hundred Since, like, it got so repetitive and boring that I just quit watching it because it's like it's pointless. Well, I think the reason why a lot of times these shows they don't find anything is because they they're going by a script and they're not actually looking for anything. They go on the location, and I mean every freaking show I've been on a whole ton of these shows with various hosts and stuff, they come in, they're there for two hours, and they go home. It's like, well, how the hell are you gonna find anything if you're here for two hours? You know, I'll film with them for a couple hours. Sometimes it's a whole day, but even a whole day, I mean, that's you're lucky if you get something in a whole day. I mean, I filmed with NBC at one point, and I did get echo location at that point, but I wasn't aware of it when it was happening. I had cameras in my face, a lot going on. I heard something on the hiphone and I was like, hmm, that was interesting. And it wasn't until late later on, after going through all of the audio that I discovered it and I called them up and I let them listen to it. So but normally, I think it's really rare because when you're spending I know where to go, like I know the hotspots, But otherwise it's like trying to find a damn needle in a haystack. But with these shows, yeah, they're not there that well. They kind of act like on these show though I've been here for three weeks or a month. No, they're there for like a day or two if you're lucky, for two days. So it's until you're buying the scenes and actually see the things behind it. I mean, some of these production companies are crazy, like they'll take a break and they're out having shots at tequila and smoking and playing it. You know, it's crazy. You never expect production companies to be that way. And I'm telling you, I haven't run into one that that was like really straight least. Everybody's just it's like a big party. It's crazy. It's kind of funny though, because you wouldn't expect it. You always like think of these straight least guys, you know, behind the cameraun directors and all that, just being all serious about what they're doing. Oh hell no, it's a total opposite. But I guess it makes it fun. That's okay, you're gonna have fun sometimes. I've never had to deal with it, so I don't know a whole lot about it. I just know from watching the shows and everything, there's a lot of stuff that just seems dumb or faker. It's it's head scratching. But I think the one the one that makes me laugh the most, probably, and I'm sure they're great guys. I've heard they are is Moulton Monsters. Oh yeah. I couldn't get past a couple episodes, like I's like, is this supposed to be serious? Because if it is, this is completely ridiculous. Sorry, my dogs are barking. Sorry about that? Nice. Yeah, I mean I've watched it and I just watch it for comedy relief. Really, like, what the hell of day? This is just crazy. But they get they get into all these conferences and stuff and like speaking different things, and they get to all these events and it's like, I guess whatever to sell tickets. So yeah, this year was kind of hectic a little bit because the weather was really uncooperative until September. I went in June, I went in July into July and August, and then I went in September and the two other trips was just a wash out. It rained so much, there was flooding, all kinds of debris flowing into the lake. It was pretty nasty and it really did a number on my time there. Then my boat needed stuff fixed that's another story, and do a bunch of things to that. So finally I call it the Champ curse. There's always some stupid thing that happens. I tried doing to totally screw up the whole expedition, but I managed to get through it. And I always joke and say that it's the Native American curse to protect the chant animals, but they obviously know that I don't mean them any harms. So I think that's why I get lucky with good and with the boat running good and and everything coming through. So I'm just glad it was a successful expedition this time where we had gotten something. I always try to remember and remind myself that I'm not going to get something every year because I have been so lucky with things. I just I think the next step would be some sort of DNA. I have worked with television programs and collecting DNA which came out basically inconclusive, and I think the reason for that is at one time the water samples I think got degraded. They waited too long to submit them, and at the time we had COVID going on, so the labs were closed, and then they happened to take it to another lab, so it's like, well, by the time the DNA got there was degraded. That's just my opinion. They did find something really interesting though, muscle lunge, which is the type of fish musky are endangered in Lake Champlain. They found a very large amount of muscle lunch DNA, which was really really good. That gave me a little bit of hope for the health of Lake Champlain because there is millions of gallons of sewage getting into the lake every year. They're allowing that to happen, which is really unfortunate. I don't know, something definitely needs to be done about that, So I'm trying to think of anything else I could mention. Well, I am going next year to loch Ness and Locke Morale, where there's been a lot of sightings, and I'm going to try my protocol on those locks and hopefully get something over there to compare it to what we have here in Lake Champlain, hopefully similar sonar readings or hydrophone recordings. So that's going to be a really fun trip. Let's see. This spring, I'm going to be coming out with a documentary called Lady of the Lake The Search for champ and it's basically about my journey into this sort of work. My book Waterhorse of Lake Champlaining, The Search is now available on Amazon dot com, so if you guys want to read about it. I oh god, I spent so much time working on this book. I think it's about a year and a half and the book is two hundred and fifty pages long. It's available on Amazon if anybody wants to check it out. It's very unique to where it's not just reiterated stories. This book is really unique because of the data that I have collected and comparing it to other science based data, so it's pretty pretty rare to see in a book. Usually it's just stories reiterated from one to another, but this has other things and that are of great interest. And I've got a lot of great reviews from the book so far, so if you guys want to check that out. I'm also working on a UFO documentary which is pretty interesting. I went out to the Nevada Desert about six months ago to film for that meant some really interesting people. So I just came out with my indie production company called Unclassified Films, and I'm going to be doing UFO documentaries, cryptid documentaries, paranormal anything unknown, and also nature documentaries because I'm a big nature nut and I'm always out in nature. It's very rare that you see me in the house. I don't like. I think the biggest thing about cryptied investigations you need to get off the couch and go out there. If we're going to prove these things to the scientific community, it's not going to happen sitting on forum boards and argue went on the computer, because you have so many keyboard warriors who are saying all these things about people that are actually going out there and looking for creatures and making some pretty interesting finds. But that's the way it is in the world, isn't it. You get these people behind the computer and then when you see them in person, they have nothing to say. They had absolutely nothing to say. So I think it's really important for people to get out there and do the boots on the groundwork, which is what I really work hard at because I believe, like they say the old saying the speaky wheel gets the grease determination and believe it in yourself. Well, we'll get you to a lot of places, So I think that's the positive thing to think about. Or your links for your book and everything else. You can send me a message with all those and I'll make sure to include them in the show notes for any of the listeners out there that would like to kick into. And I also have the I got my website. I give you my website as well. They can go on and check out their recordings and stuff like that. Okay, yeah, that works well, Katie, it's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed being on the show. And I was gonna ask you, you've done some big foot research, and that's like that sort of thing field stuff or you mostly like a how you put it, arm chair guy. I am a guy with a microphone. I will say that I do not go out looking for things very often because I'm afraid of things that are going to come back looking for me. Yes, and I've had a lot of my own experiences, not so much bigfoot related, but I think and this is as I said earlier, I'm kind of a skeptic. For me, seeing is believing, and I want to believe, but I just haven't had the bigfoot experience, so I can't say that I one hundred percent dive into bigfoot is saying yes, that's a real thing. But at the same time, I believe people are seeing something. So absolutely absolutely. It's like with me, I've never seen bigfoot, do I believe people are seeing something? Absolutely? And I think there are so many things out there in this world that we have no clue about, and with having my chance experiences, I know that there's something there. And I mean, hey, if they if they pass a law of protection, they know something's there. That's just my opinion and not going to do it for the hell of. It, all right, That's what that was one of the things I actually was going to ask before we wrap us up. I'm glad you brought it up. How did that come about to where you're able to get in the pass it, because for me, that's a strange thing that they would pass something for some for like an animal that they don't even determine does even exist. Like that's that's kind of a weird thing for me to think that they would actually go along with it. Yeah, a lot of people that have not been up to Lake Champlain they think that the whole thing with champ is for tourism. Now, the funny thing is, you hardly see anything about Champa there. It's crazy like they need tourism because like the whole area is really I mean, in Vermont, it's toity toity, but the reality is most people that live there are get broke. I mean, the people that are still living in Vermont have some money. It's not a very very cheap place to live. Let's put it that I live there for about six years, so I end going up there for about twelve, So that'd be my thirteen year next year actually, So I know all about that, But the the general consensus is like, oh, they've made up this whole thing for tourism, which is crap. But I think with the dad I've collected, the other data that others have collected, and all of these people that are in the area who have seen these things, they're really these people are very upstanding citizens. They're not the type of people to make up stories. So I think with all of that, usually when you talk to somebody that's on the town board or legislature, they know someone that's had an experience. And you know, my uncle so and so so I champ back in nineteen seventy five, you know. So I think that I think that's what's going on, is that the people that are having these sightings, they know of them as upstanding members of the community, so they're not going to just shove that away. Then you add in the data collected as well, so they're like, hey, maybe we really need to do something to protect these animals, which is awesome. So that was that was a really exciting thing when that happened, when when that wall was passed. Yeah, it is. I think they did something similar for Bigfoot. Didn't they over in Oregon or is it Washington? I think it was Washington, have to I heard something, but I didn't really look into it. I don't know if I've seen it before, and I kind of thought that maybe it was just a joke. But I think they somewhere they put up the bigfoot was like a protective species. Oh yeah, Like was it like it signs or something. I think I might have seen that. I don't know if it was ever passed into law. I know I've seen stuff about it. But I I'll have to definitely look into that because I'm curious myself. Yeah, when it comes to stuff like I see on the Internet, i'd take it with a grain of salt, just because it's the Internet and you can't believe anything you see on there half the time exactly. I mean, there's just so many. There was someone on Facebook the other well, yesterday I ended up blocking the guy because it annoyed the hell out of me. But he was supposting like photos of like Bigfoot supposedly, and it's it's two masks. You can tell their gorilla masks. It's like, really, dude, I know you're talking about. Oh yeah exactly, and like, oh, well, this one told me that you appeared for the Oh, get the hell out of my life. I don't want to deal with it. I cannot stand hoaxers and people that lie about stuff. I just I take my stuff too serious, you know what I mean? What's worse to me? And I'm sorry for anyone that goes along with this, And I'm not trying to insult you, but the people that believe the blatantly fake stuff. Because I saw the post that you're referring to, and I saw the comments, and I'm like, seriously, how does no one know it's the fakest looking shit I've ever seen, Like it looks like a mask, and people are like, oh, this is one of the best photos I've ever seen a big phetos Like it's clearly a mask. Oh my god. It just really makes you wonder what the world's come to these days. Right, it's crazy, h they're just blowing smoke up is But I don't know what's going on. But it's just I saw that and I just had no I'm like, why the hell is this guy on my friends list? I mean, I'm sure he's a nice guy at all, but I don't respect anybody that fakes stuff. It's just something that's I don't know. I I teach my stuff. I take my stuff seriously because I know that there's stuff out there that we can't explain. And you get idiots like this that totally ruin it for people that get legitimate, you know, data, which is really sad. So they're screwed. They're screwing things up, and I think that they need to be exposed and people need to just ignore them. And they just want attention. That's all they want is attention. I just don't understand the concept of needing that attention because it gives them attention, but it doesn't make any sort of sense, like it's not great attention. But whatever. Well, I guess that's the only they have nothing else going on their life. I guess for themselves, it's kind of sad if you think about it, But what are you gonna do? All right? I just feel like people like that are ruining it for the people like you that actually are legitimately trying to find evidence of things, like actually putting in the work and trying to prove existence of things. So when people talk about it, they bring up the foaxers and the fakes and all that stuff, so discredits any sort of real credibility for the people that actually do the work. Well. Yeah, like a similar thing that happened a while ago that this guy done. A long story behind that guy, but he put up that they got drone footage of Champ. I'm like, okay, so I see this drone footage. It's a freaking rock. I know where they took drone footage, and I know the rock. So I went up on the Champlain Bridge, which goes from Vermont to New York, and I got video of it. And I mean, I'm gonna do a presentation about it, because the only reason why he was trying to do that or you know, say that it was Champ was number one. This is a long story behind it, but trying to like, I don't know, somehow outdo my data or whatever. Stupid number two, he's promoting some stupid movie that's about Champ that he had made and he figured, you know, what better marketing to say, like, ooh, Champ was near the little boat, this little rowboat. I mean, the rock is right there, you can see it. So I want to be doing a debunking video on that because if that's what makes me upset is that people like that make well, actually it makes my research a great book, but it just it just ticks me off because I take this so serious and there is something in that lake, and you got idiots like this to try to make a few dollars making up stuff, and I just can't stand hoaxers. And you know, this person has done this a few times with other projects that he's worked on, made up a bunch of lives. So people like that I have no respect for. And I guess that's the only intention that they can get, which is kind of sad. But what are you going to do? Right? You'll have that, I think in every field. That's kind of what I've discovered in the past couple of years of being involved doing this show is no matter what you do, there's always going to be those types. Of people there is. I mean, the best thing you can do is just be yourself and be positive and present what you can. I mean, I work really hard. I've been working on in this comparison video for the echo location, comparing it to the other echo location recordings and also whale dolphin sounds, man made sounds that are in the lake, fish downs that are in the lake. So I've been working on this for a couple days. I'm totally burned out. My brain is totally fried, and going over data from the trip as well. So but you know, I believe the harder you work at things, good things will come to you. So hopefully good things will be in the future for more discoveries and of Champ. Yeah, totally, I hope so too. Well, Katie, it's been a pleasure talking with you. It was great being on this show. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Not a problem. You have a good night, you too, chat soon, Thank you, Bye bye, all right. Bye bye, and that's the show everyone. I really hope you guys enjoyed the conversations. If you would like to be a guest on Tenfoil Tels, remember to send an email to Tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com or go to the contact section of tenfoiltel dot com. Just get your message to me. We'll get some schedule for future episode. And just remember the truth lies, and the stories we share, the connections we make, stay curiously open minded. Thank you all for joining us on this journey, and until next time, keep questioning, keep seeking, and keep exploring the unknown. Good Night, everyone. Seems one sounds and the headphones. Yeah, it's turns rock. Got a story about a cryptic creature. Let's take a walk, big foot up. Then they're out there in the talk. But the truth is out there likingly Its fuck UFO sightings got the whole. World show conspiracies on phones like a story in the book me Control trying to kid us by. We're all gonna use the whole line in history. 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