Ep. 252: Full Body Apparitions, Haunted Bridges, and Paranormal Encounters

[00:00:03] And I just turned around and I pulled ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with that. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my headlights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most were the eyes were glowing red.

[00:00:30] I see a orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And when he begins to tell them that he saw a UFO, they're basically like, what are you talking about? That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it. And that's where I saw the top of the muzzle, nose, and the eyes.

[00:00:58] As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, it felt like death. Welcome back to Tinfoil Tales. I'm your host, Brandon. Tonight we are joined by my guests, Monica and Sarah. Thanks for coming on here and talking with me. Thanks for having us. Hey, hey. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself? Absolutely. So I'm Monica Martin. I'm the host and soul producer.

[00:01:26] And my co-host is with us tonight, Sarah, of the Verbal Echo Podcast. And, gosh, we might, I don't know if I want to even begin to explain where Sarah and I met. It's kind of a long story. But, yeah, I've been doing the podcast for a while. But Sarah and I started talking last year about doing kind of collaborating together on this. And it's just been so much fun.

[00:01:55] We basically come on once a week and just talk about all of our crazy adventures and our love for everything weird. Awesome. Absolutely. You, uh, he says a long story, but like, did you guys just randomly meet on like, and online from something or in person? We met on Tinder. No, just kidding. Oh, my God.

[00:02:24] No, food and beverage restaurant industry, which is kind of like the tender of, I don't know, awful torture. I don't know. Sarah? Yeah, we, uh, we met at, I want to say a restaurant we worked at, and then we continued to kind of work together in different places after that. And as we, you know, as we worked together and kind of got to know each other a little bit, or we had a fun out that we had this in common that we just love all things mysterious.

[00:02:52] And, um, so that kind of brought us together. And I think that, you know, there's a little bit of trauma bonding going on there too. We, we had some, uh, you know, works, works always a tough place to meet somebody and you end up spending a lot of time together and going through a lot together. So, um, I think that kind of brought us together and we ended up just finding out that we had so much in common and the rest is kind of history. And we decided to do this.

[00:03:18] And I think that, you know, at first I wasn't really sure what we were going to cover, but it's turned into a little bit of everything and it's become really a pretty beautiful thing. Um, so yeah, I dragged her to the Nebraska Bigfoot conference last, uh, April. And it's just been hoot ever since she was like, I don't know if I want to go. I'm like, Oh, you want to go.

[00:03:47] And, uh, we had such a blast, you know, we had such a blast. It was incredible. Yeah. I really had a great time there and I learned so much and I left there with so many questions and just the, the urge to go learn more and explore and figure out what I could do with the knowledge that I had.

[00:04:07] So when you guys are doing your podcast, have like any sort of goals for, is it just something you just do because you enjoy it? I would say both. Um, we really want to see it grow and it, you know, what did they say about, um, you know, you found the job that you love when it doesn't feel like a job or something like that. I don't know who quoted that, but it doesn't seem like work.

[00:04:34] Literally we come on and we each kind of take a topic each week and we just go down a rabbit hole. And sometimes the topics keep going for multiple recordings and it's kind of an exploration of what don't I know about this subject and what can I find out? And then we kind of share with each other. And then we also talk about things that are going on in our life.

[00:05:00] And so our hope is that our listeners can get to know us as people, but then also learn something. Right. I think we both have a very, just a desire to learn constantly. Um, I know I'm that way. I, I just, I have to keep learning. It's the only thing that really fuels my brain. And then, you know, I think Monica, I think you're the same way. I think that we always have to be learning and growing. Otherwise we end up feeling like we're kind of stuck.

[00:05:30] Yeah. I just think when we're doing podcasts and everything, we kind of put ourselves out there. And for the most part, I'm kind of reluctant on a lot of the things I do talk about just because not to offend listeners, but there are some weird people out there. So I, I don't try and be too specific all the time.

[00:05:51] Like I think I'm actually probably more open than a lot of people, but there's certain avenues that I just don't want to go down or I talk about because sometimes you don't even know who's listening, who's out there. And you say certain things and certain people are listening and then it could turn into a flame war online because you said something that they didn't agree with in which I've been dealing with that a lot lately. So the navigation of being a podcaster is something that I never expected to do.

[00:06:21] So it can be, uh, as long as you're enjoying it, I guess, that's the best part about it. When you do something you get to enjoy. Yeah. It's the greatest job that I don't get paid for. Yeah. Well, we have, we have dreams. I get paid for and it's definitely not as much as what people apparently think you get paid for. So I, I barely break even as a podcaster.

[00:06:49] So for anyone thinks that podcasting is a lucrative business is definitely not unless you're like Joe Rogan. Yeah. Not everyone can be Joe Rogan or yeah. Yeah. It's, you gotta love it and you gotta love the, I think that's the payment is you get so much out of it by finding community that that becomes the payment in the beginning. And if you stick with it, then yeah, you can break even and maybe you make a, you know, sell a t-shirt or whatever.

[00:07:14] But, um, it's really about connecting with others and finding your people and finding your community. And, and that, that to me is the payment. Mm hmm. Well, And if people are not happy with what you're saying, then they are welcome to go listen somewhere else. Right. I mean, I just, I always get someone to let me know I said something incorrect or they didn't agree with what I said or something.

[00:07:41] I mean, someone always just has to voice their opinion and it comes with the territory. The biggest advice that someone had gave me was to never read the comments. And that's one of the bad things that I still do. Oh yeah. That someone's always got something to say. Never read the comments. Yeah. Why? But we still do. We all do. Why do we do it? It's like torture. Yeah. We know the stove's hot, but we're still going to go touch it. Right.

[00:08:08] Well, I think it benefits a little bit though, because you are going to learn. I don't, I can't, I don't think it's all bad. You're going to learn. You're going to learn things on the way and you're going to have people tell you maybe correct you on something. I know that I've said some things on our podcast and I'm like, I go back later and research and I'm like, oops, that wasn't completely a hundred percent accurate. So it's all just a giant learning experience. Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:08:35] I will turn it over to whoever wants to go first, but I know there's a couple of things you guys wanted to discuss. So feel free to figure out which one you want to go first and we'll dive into some of the things you guys experienced. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. So I just wanted to, before we went into some of our experiences, talk a little bit about how Sarah and I met. And, um, I think it was about 2013, 2014, 2012, somewhere around there.

[00:09:04] And we both met at a local restaurant, um, uh, bartending and we, you know, we, you know, it's kind of a, you know, it's a mountain town. So we kind of figured out, we knew a lot of people, um, of the same, there's that friend connection. Um, but you know, we quickly got along and, um, ended up a few years down the road, uh, and I lived together for a little while, just a little hiccup in life.

[00:09:32] And then, um, you know, we started sharing some experiences, um, that, you know, happened while we were living together. And, um, Sarah, any comments on that? Yeah, there was a, uh, something really like the bathroom, really like the shower curtain. Um, we had a night where we sat down with a bottle of wine and had your ghost box. And I think what happened was we, if I remember correctly, we actually got a little bit freaked out by what we heard.

[00:10:00] So I think we, we stopped that pretty quickly, but there was a lot going on in your house that we couldn't see. And I think we were both really kind of fueled by that. And then after that, um, even once I moved out, we started to talk more about the things that we were interested in and then we went to the Bigfoot conference. So, yeah. Yeah. I dragged her not, not really kicking and screaming, but, um, yeah, it was curiosity.

[00:10:28] You were the one that brought all the t-shirts and the swag, but she showed up with the air, at the Airbnb with like two bags of Bigfoot swag candles, cups, hats, you know, we were like, all right, let's do this. It was super fun. But, um, yeah. So that's just a little bit about how, you know, we kind of came to this point and, um, but, you know, honestly, like I wanted to say a little bit about kind of how I got in,

[00:10:57] you know, experience, started experiencing everything weird and how I became attracted to like the paranormal and the cryptozoology and it's kind of a long road. But, um, I first, uh, became connected, I would say to the paranormal after the death of my brother.

[00:11:19] And this was, he died in, uh, 19, uh, 97. Sorry. I had to think for a second. It's been a long time. Uh, 97. And there, you know, he, he, he started, you know, like making himself known to me, uh, shortly thereafter. And there was no question in my mind that he was communicating with me. And there were a lot of experiences.

[00:11:48] Um, most of the activity that I had at home was pretty, I'm almost fairly certain that it was very personal. And a lot of it was him or other family members. I wasn't ever scared. Um, but one of the main things that happened that really, really sunk in for me was that, uh, when I was, uh, I w I would travel down to Denver a lot, transporting my son back and

[00:12:17] forth, um, sort of a shared parenting situation. And one night I, it was really late. I was tired. You know, he was in the back and in a car seat behind me. It was a snowstorm. It was dark. It was late. I was tired, had worked all day. And I dozed off and I woke up to the radio on white noise, just blaring loudly.

[00:12:46] And a hand on my shoulder that shook me. And I knew that that was him. And so that was just kind of my opening experience into the paranormal was that my brother who passed away in a car accident pretty much saved my butt. And I, I knew that, uh, there was more that, you know, the, the, the things go on, you know?

[00:13:17] And so that's how I became curious in it. Um, and I began after, you know, I was really always curious. Um, like Sarah mentioned about the curiosity that we both have. And I began going on these paranormal investigations starting in 1998 when I was in Scotland. And the first one that I went on was in the Edinburgh.

[00:13:43] We went to, we did a family trip to Edinburgh and I booked one of the, you know, like the tourist ghost hunts, uh, down in the catacombs. And that was my first one that I went on, went on it by myself. Um, I always did these things kind of on my own because I didn't really, I don't know if I was just ashamed to ask for someone to join me or just didn't have anyone who was interested. But I went on this paranormal investigation on my own.

[00:14:12] And this one was fascinating because it, I don't know if you know too much about the history of it, but there was a really, really huge, massive, devastating fire in Edinburgh in 1824.

[00:14:26] And these catacombs that were underneath the city, they, around this time period, they had originally, they were for one purpose, they, they had been like cities and there were shops and stores down here, but then they just deteriorated. You know, the air quality was terrible. There was mold and, and then they began being taken over by homeless people and there was crime down there.

[00:14:53] And then this fire happened and then just a lot of people died. So they do ghost tours down there now. And, uh, it was pretty interesting. I, I got touched. Um, I had a rock thrown at me. Um, and then it was really interesting years later to find out that, um, like some of the, the ghost, uh, shows had investigated them.

[00:15:20] Um, you know, like the one, I think it was ghost adventures, but, um, and there was another one too. I think it was most haunted, uh, that did an investigation down there. And when I saw that, I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I've been there. That's, you know, that's pretty cool. But the history of that was pretty tragic. Um, so there was that one that I went on. And then, um, quite a few years later I was in Jamaica and I went to go see Rose Hall.

[00:15:48] Um, and that one, that haunt, I didn't really have too much happen at that one. You know, of course there were the feelings and kind of the feeling of being watched and such. But, um, that one was more, I don't know. It was almost just more of like a historical tour for me. Um, but the history of that one, um, so it's near Montego Bay, um, 18th century Georgian mansion. Um, it's considered pretty, one of the more haunted locations.

[00:16:18] Um, and the, the ghost that supposedly haunts it, her name was Annie Palmer. Um, and, uh, I don't know the history on it's pretty cool, but, um, I didn't really see or, or feel too much in that one, but it was just great to, to go and experience it. And then I fast forward 2018 when I was in Florida, I went to go to the Cuban club.

[00:16:46] Um, and that's an Ybor city. And that one for me, I went with a friend this time. I drag, I tend to drag my friends into this stuff, but, um, I ended up dragging a friend into that. And, um, that one was pretty active. Um, so that one was pretty cool. Um, there's like a lady in white. There's a spirit of a little eight or nine year old little boy who supposedly drowned in the basement.

[00:17:13] And this place, and that one was, they had this little ball that, that would light up either red or blue. And they would, you know, they would ask it questions and it would flash different colors. Um, and then there was like a, um, a theater that we went to. And that was the first time I'd used, uh, the, uh, uh, copper divining rods. Um, and I got so much activity with that. So that one was really interesting.

[00:17:41] Um, didn't get touched or anything, but it was just, I think I'm really attracted to the stuff for the history more than anything. And then the last, uh, the last one I wanted to talk about was, um, I went, when I was in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. Um, I don't know if anyone's been there, but they call it the little Switzerland of the Ozarks. It's just absolutely gorgeous. Um, and then I, you know, booked like this little tour, dragged my son along with me. I think he enjoyed it though.

[00:18:11] Um, but that one was, we went to two different hotels. One of them was the, um, the Crescent Hotel and Spa. And then the other one that we toured was the Basin Park Hotel. And both of those locations were just, it was just crazy active. You could just feel the heaviness around you, the energy. Um, so yeah. Anyway, that's, uh, I don't know.

[00:18:36] That was just kind of my, my, um, dive into the paranormal, um, and some of my experiences that I had. So, yeah. Do you happen to think that the paranormal stuff, you find it interesting? You said you didn't like the history part of it and everything. Is it because of the history or is it because you have a different connection to it, you think? Oh, I definitely have a connection to it. I'm a medium.

[00:19:03] So, but I didn't really know that I was a medium until, um, maybe probably in the pandemic when I started training for it. And so before then I just thought, oh, I'm just really sensitive. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm an empath. You know, people use those words, but what they're really trying to explain is that they're, uh, you know, they're, they're, they're developing medium.

[00:19:29] I think a lot of people have this, most people have this ability, but just not everyone is open to it. Most people shut it down. They always say that there's only a small percentage of the brain that we use. And I think a lot of people that have these psychic abilities or connections to the other side or whatever you want to call it, are able to tap into it by using more of that part of the brain that we don't have access to because we're somehow shut off from all of that.

[00:19:59] I love that. Yeah. That's an interesting way to think about it for sure. Um, the, the training that I've done is it's more energy work, you know? So you, um, we may have, uh, those that have crossed over around us all the time. And what you do is you expand your energy out outward and you let them move closer.

[00:20:29] So I don't know about the part of the brain. Um, I could, I could see that as being an interesting way to, um, explain it for sure. I just feel like even with the energy aspect to it and everything else, it all somehow stems from our consciousness. Like it's something inside of us. People say it's our soul, it's our energy, everything else. But somehow it all stems from the fact that we all think these thoughts and our consciousness all stems from our brains.

[00:20:58] But basically for me, it's the understanding of it is we are using that aspect to it that we don't normally get tapped into. Yeah. I think consciousness might be a better way to explain it for sure. Yeah, definitely consciousness. And I've tried to explain to people what being a medium is like before. And I came up with this thing. So imagine that you've crossed over and you're looking at an, you're maybe on like an event horizon.

[00:21:27] And you're looking at this massive amount of souls or humans that have not crossed over. And you look off into the distance and you see some, so you imagine that everyone has a little flame coming out of the top of their head. And you look out over the distance and some of the flames are brighter than others. Some of them are very, very dim.

[00:21:52] If you want to communicate to try to get a message, you go to the ones that have the flame that are brighter. And that just means that those people, those mediums have just trained more and are a little bit more open. And they just know how to communicate because mediumship is basically just the ability to communicate.

[00:22:15] And to share a language between yourself and the person that's crossed over. And it's not scary or evil or anything like that. It's all in the service of light and love and getting messages to the people that are here on earth and need help processing their grief. At least that's the way I think about that. Yeah.

[00:22:43] I feel like I don't know anything. So I don't ever tell anyone anything of value other than I don't know anything. I'm a guy with a microphone. I have my opinions, but my opinions mean nothing. I try and rationalize things in a way that makes sense to me. So it may not make sense to anyone else, but as long as it makes sense to me, I guess that works. That's all that matters, really.

[00:23:12] Why do you think it is that you feel like things need to make sense? That is how I am programmed. I don't understand it myself, but I always have to find the answer to something. And the reason I do my podcast is because I've been searching for answers my whole life to things that I can't explain. Absolutely. So I have to know. I don't know why. It's just one of those things that I get. I just have to know.

[00:23:41] That makes sense. I feel like most people are that way. I think some people can be that way, then other people just don't care enough to want to know. And I think that's why a lot of people are still asleep in the fact that strange things go on. Because I know so many people, I'm skeptical a lot of the time too, but I know so many people that are completely shut off from anything outside the normal whatever we see on television. And they refuse to accept anything outside of that.

[00:24:10] So if you bring up something like a, you mentioned a Bigfoot conference. If you said that you believe in Bigfoot, they're going to think you're crazy because you believe in something that doesn't exist. Same thing with like paranormal stuff. They don't believe in ghosts. I've been dealing with a lot of that crap here lately of people not believing in certain things. And that's fine. I don't care if people believe or don't believe. But I don't like when they start ridiculing other people for what they believe in. Right.

[00:24:36] There's a lot of that in the Bigfoot community as well as the paranormal community. You know, the strife of flesh and blood versus woo. I mean, there's a prime example of can't we all just get along? Can't we all find common ground? Nope. You know, I'm in my camp. You're in your camp. And yeah, mudslinging. And yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:06] I've noticed it doesn't matter what community you're involved in. There's always some sort of hierarchy to it. And someone knows more than somebody else. And if you don't fall in line with what they believe into, then you're wrong. And it's just a bunch of drama. Definitely. Definitely. And I think that people are so uncomfortable with things that they can't explain. There's just such comfort in knowing that there's an answer to everything.

[00:25:33] And I think that that's like where I'm a little bit different. I enjoy things that make me uncomfortable because that means that I have more to learn about that thing. It means that there are answers out there. And if I don't know about it, then maybe I can find out about it. It doesn't make me uncomfortable to not know something. So many people are just against that. They don't want to acknowledge that something doesn't quite have an answer. Or it has an answer, but we can't quite explain it.

[00:26:03] Now, Sarah, I was going to ask since Monica talked a little bit about what got her into this type of stuff and what she's been interested in. Have you ever had any paranormal type experiences before doing the podcast? Anything that kind of led you to where you're at today? Yes, definitely. And I think this conversation is a really great segue into that.

[00:26:27] Ever since I was very, very young, I've always felt just different. I've always felt very open-minded to things. I've had tons and tons of experiences. And I think that that's why. I think it's because I'm open-minded to it. And it's because I don't need the answer right away. I am okay with having an experience without having an experience for a reason.

[00:26:53] So even when I was a child, I grew up in Cedric, Kansas, a little tiny town north of Wichita. And there was just something a little bit different about the town, even different than living in Wichita. I felt there was a lot of history there. And when I was a kid, we had a paper route. And this was back in the 90s. So different form of parenting then. But I'd be walking up to the gas station. We had a paper route.

[00:27:20] I'd be walking up to the gas station to pick up the papers at 2, 3 o'clock in the morning alone at 8 years old. And I always felt like there was a feeling like somebody was watching me. And it wasn't ever anything that really upset me or freaked me out. But it was just a feeling that always kind of lingered with me, that I wasn't alone and that there was someone around me or something around me that I couldn't explain. And even, you know, I used to work with my mom.

[00:27:49] She cleaned houses and cleaned a church here in town. And I had some experiences there where I saw just full-bodied apparitions in the attic of a church that we cleaned. And so that was always fascinating to me. And I never felt like I needed an answer to that. I just felt like I was confident in the fact that I knew what it was and I was okay with what it was. And it was just a lingering energy.

[00:28:16] And as I've gotten older, I have figured out that I crave that kind of thing. I crave the unknown. I want to know more about the unknown. Not so that I have answers, but just so that I have those experiences. I think those experiences are important. And when I was a kid, we had this bridge. It was called Theorosa's Bridge outside of town. And I'd hear about it a lot as a kid, high schoolers. And, you know, they'd talk about going out to the bridge and drinking.

[00:28:44] And I have very vague memories of actually traveling over this bridge. But it's got kind of a weird vibe, a creepy feel. Unfortunately, I wasn't living in that area in my high school years. Otherwise, I'm sure there would have been some, you know, Boone's Farm debauchery and shenanigans that would have been had. But I also have to give myself a moment of shame for not visiting after I move back because I feel like I should have.

[00:29:11] But the bridge covers, it goes over Jester Creek between Valley Center and Sedgwick, Kansas. This area was really popping off around like 1870. So it was big. Wichita was big for cattle trade. We had railroads that were being built through here. And it was heavily populated by Native Americans as settlers were moving in. And there was an oil reserve up in Valley Center. So once that was discovered, you know, the area filled up pretty quickly.

[00:29:39] And I wasn't really able to find the exact date that the original bridge was built. It was built in iron wood. Strangely, I'm not sure why I can't find records of that. But it had to have been around early, early 1900s or so. The crazy thing about the bridge is that it burned down in 1974. The original bridge burned down. And then it was rebuilt not long after that.

[00:30:05] And then the second bridge burned down in, sorry, the third bridge burned down in 1976. So within two years, you had a bridge burning down, which that just seemed, I don't know, that doesn't seem like a coincidence to me. Yeah, I'm strange when it comes to coincidences. Some things just seem like they're not coincidences. I think you should mention that too. Yeah, we continue to have audio issues as I'm recording here. So this is the second time this has happened. So certain things get brought up on the show.

[00:30:35] And then typically we have error issues. If I do a conspiracy type of a show, I'd start having weird stuff happening to my computer. I've also had my mouse icon start moving by itself. Oh, I love. So I think there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on when you talk about weird things. And I've always made jokes that when you bring up certain topics, especially when I do like more conspiracy stuff, I was like, there's FBI agencies or whatever listening to me.

[00:31:04] And then let me know that you shouldn't say things like that. We're going to mess with your mouse. I make jokes, but then I'm kind of half-ass and be like honest about it because it just seems strange. Oh, yeah. So for the listeners out there, I basically said I don't believe in coincidences. And then we kind of got a little bit of an error. But I think things happen for reasons. And as I was getting ready to say that, the reason happens that the audio gets cut out again. Yeah.

[00:31:33] So very strange. It's very strange. I feel like there, you know, somebody didn't want that bridge there. So the crazy thing about that story is that there's no real record of Atherosa living in the area at the time. And there are a couple of different legends about this bridge.

[00:31:55] And the first one just says that a lady had a young woman had a baby with a married settler to avoid their relationship being revealed or causing any scandal. She threw the baby into the creek and then she was eventually so riddled with guilt that she threw herself into the creek. The second legend says that the Native Americans attacked a group of settlers camping near the creek and then left with the baby and threw the baby into the creek.

[00:32:22] And then the mother left the wagon train to go find her baby and she never returned. And then in yet another story, the young settler, a young settler, whose name was Thea Rosa, had a child with a man she was in love with. But when her fiance found out, he threw the baby into the creek and then she jumped in to save the child and drowned. So it's said that when you go down to this creek, you can hear the cries of a baby. You can hear the woman wailing for her child.

[00:32:49] And you can hear her just running through the creek looking for her child. So a lot of paranormal investigators have gone to this site. And it's really kind of creepy anyway. But they report seeing orbs and lights. There's a woman in white and they just experience noticeable temperature changes that don't register on a thermometer. And then like we're talking about, like issues with technology and or their car has trouble.

[00:33:18] Their car troubles with engines and computers. And they do say that if you stand on the bridge and say, Thea Rosa, I have your baby, you'll either get shoved or grabbed. But I couldn't find any actual concrete evidence of that happening. So I do want to go visit, though, and just see what I see, what I hear, what I feel. I'm very much someone who is open to that kind of thing. I'm very open to having an experience at any time because I've had so many of them.

[00:33:46] And I think that a lot of what I read online, people were saying, Well, I went and I didn't see anything. Well, it's you have to you have to feel you have to listen. It's not just about seeing something. It's there's more to it than that, I think. So that's just one story of the money from around here that I really wanted to talk about because I haven't really dug into that story very much. So it's really pretty fascinating. Yeah.

[00:34:14] I was wanting to ask this a little bit ago, but I didn't want to interrupt. You guys had mentioned something about this Bigfoot thing in Nebraska. Are you interested in the whole cryptid thing, too? Or are you more of a paranormal person? I'm very much into both anything mysterious. I'm also big into ghost ships and shipwrecks and big into geology and volcanology. And I have very, very, very wide range of things that I'm interested in.

[00:34:44] Yeah, I think that's one of the things that we really enjoy about the podcast is that, you know, one week we'll be talking about an archaeological find. And mermaids and the next time we'll talk about ghost ships and dogman. So or, you know, indigenous legends or what is it?

[00:35:07] We really don't have a lot of strict parameters about what we'll talk about. And I think that's what makes it interesting because we both love a good rabbit hole. And it's just open, you know, like, oh, what do you want to talk about today? Oh, I want to talk about this. And here we go. And it's just really interesting where some of our conversations have gone.

[00:35:34] And they usually let us down a path of learning more about whatever it is that we were talking about. You had asked me, Monica, at one point you asked me about the history of Wichita. And I was like, oh, my God, I live here. I don't even know. So that led me into figuring out what, you know, what happened here? Why is it that I feel so much in this place?

[00:35:55] And especially like in Kansas and Goddard, where my parents live, I had I had a full body apparition pop up in front of me when I was driving home one night there. I eventually figured out that there was a railroad that went through there and it was a railroad worker. A hundred percent. Yeah. Which we discuss for sure in one of our episodes coming up, I think.

[00:36:20] Well, you know, it's what it's interesting because we both had full body apparition sightings or experiences, I think would be a better way to describe it. And that might be a good place for me to explain about mine. This was probably I think I want to say about 2014 or something like that, somewhere around there. But I was working at this working at a golf at a golf course for a summer job.

[00:36:49] And I remember going to bed one night, super tired, going to bed one night. And then I was like in the middle of sleep. So it must have been like, you know, 3 a.m. or something. And I remember just being pulled up out of sleep, like in this just this amazing amount of fear and something's not right.

[00:37:15] And I just woke up like it was just it was just the strangest experience of being just pulled out of sleep like something's wrong. And I just woke up, my eyes flipped open. I pulled the covers back and there it was standing at the foot of my bed.

[00:37:37] And I remember it was a little boy dressed in probably late 1800s garb. You could see right through it. Couldn't see the feet, but I could see all the way down toward the calves. It looked like he was about somewhere between 8 and 12, something like that. And then, you know, because I'm really fascinated with the history, I went to the library and started looking through records.

[00:38:07] And I figured out who I think it was. It was a young boy of a prominent family in the town who had died of, I think it was like a pneumonia or something, you know. And I saw the picture of him in a historical book. And I thought, wow, this is crazy.

[00:38:38] I didn't know what to do about it, you know, but I never saw it again. And it was almost like it was just passing through. And I don't know what the message was. It was really strange. This was in Gypsum. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I saw him too. Yeah, really strange. Very strange. You both saw the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:07] Yeah, but never again after that. Just one time for me. Yeah, one time. Really strange. Yeah. I've often wondered if when we see these apparitions, like when people say they seem like these full body things, are we actually seeing the remnants of someone's energy that used to be here? Or are we actually tap it into a different plane of existence?

[00:39:31] You know how they claim like, I know it's kind of an out there thing for some people, but they just say there's different dimensions. So sometimes our reality is bleeding into this next reality, this other dimension, and the things that we think are spirits are actually just the people or energies from that other plane of existence bleeding into ours. And that can go into science too. I mean, you know, the old energy is neither created nor destroyed. And that's always been how, what the direction I've gone with that. It's just their energy is still here.

[00:40:01] Yeah, maybe. What do they say that? The stone tape theory or, you know, where it's just a repeat of history. That's what it felt like to me. It didn't, it didn't feel very intelligent to me. It just felt like kind of a recording, you know, it wasn't spooky other than me getting yanked out of sleep.

[00:40:26] And I, you know, and I was like, and I remember saying to myself, oh my gosh, it's finally happening. I'm finally seeing a ghost up close and personal. And then it was just over. And then of course I got up and I couldn't sleep, but you know, it was just, uh, I felt kind of sorry for that person. I didn't feel, I wasn't scared.

[00:40:54] I just kind of felt kind of bummed, you know, like, oh, poor kid, you know? And then to go find out that information, I think that's very cool. Yeah. Yeah. And it was so weird. It was just in a historical book in the library and I flipped. Cause I, I looked, went to the library looking for like, oh, who are the historical families? And, you know, this sort of thing. And then I, I flipped open that page and there was a photograph. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's him. That's what I saw.

[00:41:24] Really strange. And I think that tracks with residual, you know, residual energy and when you got your residual and then you've got your intelligent energy. And in my experience, I had an experience one time I was distraught over probably a boyfriend breaking up with me or something. And I was laying in bed crying and all of a sudden I just felt like I was wrapped in a, like a warm white cocoon.

[00:41:53] And then there was a smell, a distinctive smell. It wasn't quite perfume, but kind of close to that. And then essentially long story short, I told my mom the story and the same thing happened with her. And we believe that it was her grandmother. So that would prove to be more of maybe like an intelligent sort of an energy.

[00:42:15] Just this past weekend, my wife got up at three in the morning because my daughter was having a friend stay over and they're very young. So it was their first sleepover and she woke up afraid and kind of wanted to go home. So she had to call the parents to come get her. While she was waiting for them to show up, it's a little after three in the morning. I mean, she hears a hello right on the right side of her and our dog sat up and looked at it.

[00:42:45] So she instantly comes back to our room, freaked out that her voice, which we've had weird stuff happen ever since we've lived here. So it doesn't really shock me any. But yeah, that's our latest run in with whatever. I have goosebumps. Yeah. Oh, that would be scary for your child. Yeah.

[00:43:13] You don't want them to get scared, you know, and you want to run around and tell whatever it is to get out. Yeah. The kids didn't hear it. It was my wife that heard it. But that was your wife. Yeah. It was my wife that heard it. The, our kids were asleep except for the little girl that was wanting to go home, but she was still in my daughter's room. So my wife was out there by herself with the dog and heard it. Hmm. And you said the dog heard it too? Yep.

[00:43:39] As soon as she said that she heard it, the dog instantly stood up and started looking in the same direction. Oh yeah. There's your sign. Animals are so sensitive, you know, so sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. They really are. Yeah. They're, I don't know. We've had some people come up to me and tell me that they, we've had different things that pass through here and the male is not the nice one. I was like, okay.

[00:44:08] I mean, I've done what I can do. I've tried to get rid of it. I told it it's not welcome. Like this has been an ongoing thing for six years now. I mean, we go a long time without any sort of incidents or anything like that. But again, we don't talk about it much because we try not to give anything some sort of energy.

[00:44:29] And we've been pretty calm for over a year, but someone was actually talking to me about all this, weirdly enough, sometime last week. And now this happens is like, this is why I don't bring it up. Yeah. This is partly why I do a thing not in my house anymore. Mm-hmm. Because I don't, it's still somewhat attached. It's still on the property, but it's not in the same space. Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:44:58] And I think that also, if I might offer a tool to use, is to ground yourself before doing your recording. You know, just ground yourself. Picture a protective energy around you. You know, like this is your boundary. This is it.

[00:45:23] You know, I'm just here to record and to share content and to share experiences with anyone who wants to listen. And you can't stay. You know, you can't stay. We. I also want to. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I was going to say, I have been out filming my documentary and we've been doing all sorts of things. Every time I go out there and we do the paranormal side to it, I always make sure to tell whatever is communicating with us or that's around that it's not welcome to follow us back.

[00:45:53] Because I don't want any hitchhikers. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I also wanted to point out this concept of time that we have because I have had some other experiences. And they were uniquely very much tied to events that happened in my life. But at the time that I was having experiences, I didn't know what they were about. And I thought they were just, you know, spooks, spooks following me around.

[00:46:22] But what they ended up being, you know, okay, so we're in linear time, right? You know, we get up in the morning, we have breakfast, we go to bed, you know, we go to work, we go to bed, you know, linear time. Yeah. Well, the parent, I don't know if I want to call it paranormal, but just those that have crossed over don't have the same parameters of time that we have.

[00:46:48] So I, a few years ago, I lost an ex-boyfriend to suicide. And it was a terrible, awful thing that happened. But before that had happened, you know, we were together for a few years and we ended up breaking up. And then later on, we became friends again. And then he, he died.

[00:47:13] And before all of that happened, when I first, years before I met him, I had experiences. And I thought that there was a ghost following me around. And I, and I was scared. I was like, what is this? This is weird, you know. And then I found out later, we're talking with this person who died, their family.

[00:47:38] When I started describing this ghost that I had experienced, the family confirmed to me that that was his grandfather. But basically, the grandfather was checking me out to make sure that I was a good person long before this boyfriend came into my life.

[00:48:04] So the, I, does that make sense about the time, the linear time? So I guess what I'm trying to say is some of the experiences that you might be having might be tied to something that happens in your future. And they might not be such bad things, you know. Or they might be family members that are trying to communicate and not like evil demons and terrible, you know.

[00:48:30] Like it might be, you know, a grandfather or a grandmother or, you know, who knows. You know, it might not be such a bad, bad thing. I don't necessarily believe that it's bad in the sense that I don't feel like it's doing anything negatively. But when we did first move in, my daughter had three scratch marks down her back. And that is what I didn't like. No, I don't like that.

[00:49:00] Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, and that was right after a few days after the baby monitor. And the same type of voice from what my wife described that said mine for the baby monitor. And then she has, she's not even two years old yet, had three scratches down her back. But we've never had anything like that ever happen again. Far as like anyone being scratched or anything.

[00:49:24] And this is the first time I've known of anyone saying anything other than I heard my daughter say dad. And then I turned around and said, what? And she didn't say anything. I was like, I just heard you say dad. But I got the typical teenager eye roll of okay. Yeah. Hmm. That's yeah. I don't like that. That concerns me. Yeah. Oh.

[00:49:51] And this house that you're in, have you, seems like, is there something tied to the land? This is, the house itself was built in 79. So it's not super old. And as far as I can tell from records and everything, no one's ever passed away on, in the house or anything like that.

[00:50:17] So I don't know what's happened on the property years and years ago. But as far as I could tell, there's been no one that's had any sort of like deaths here or anything. It doesn't mean that the land doesn't have something to it. Because that's the other thing when it comes to paranormal stuff that I don't quite understand is people say like spirits or whatever are tied to your property. Well, how do they know the property lines?

[00:50:46] Like that's just some imaginary line that we make up. Oh, yeah. I don't think, I don't think the lines matter. I think it's just like historical events or like when Sarah saw her apparition. And they were, well, it was a railroad worker, right? Yeah. Yeah. He was walking across, it was across the street, but it would have been where the railroad tracks were. And I actually thought it was a person. And then I realized it wasn't a person when they walked through a fence. Yeah.

[00:51:15] So, yeah. I was like, wait a minute. People don't walk through fences. Yeah. Not typically. Not normally. It took my brain a minute to register what it is, what it was that I'd seen. Yeah. So, again, when stuff like this happens, it's weird. But, again, we probably don't have any more instances now for like months. And then like one random thing might happen and then we don't have anything happen again.

[00:51:41] It's just very periodically something will pop in just to remind you that I'm still here. Does Indiana have history of like tragedy or historical things? Yes, it does. But I will talk off air about it. Okay. In the state.

[00:52:09] I just meant generally in the state or in that area. This specific area that I live in, that's the reason I've done my documentary because it's all about this area. The whole area that we live in has a lot of weird stuff that goes on. And this whole area used to be Native American lands until the Army put them on the trail of death and then shipped them out to Oklahoma or killed them all.

[00:52:37] So, where I live is old Native American lands. So, I'm sure there's some sort of bad juju tied into the fact that all these lands were taken away from them. Right. Yeah. I'd be pissed if that happened to me too. Yeah. I mean, you kicked my family off and, I mean, I wouldn't be happy about it. I said, I still live just a couple miles from where I had my encounter years ago.

[00:53:03] And I found out that lots of other people have had very similar encounters around here. And it all seems to be tied into the rivers that are just a couple miles away from where I live. So, they claim water is a conduit for energy. And where we live is between multiple river systems that all tie into the same river. And the same river is where all the villages used to be. That in 1812, the U.S. Army came through and started burning down.

[00:53:34] So, like I said, I think there's some bad blood spilled on these lands. I think you hit the nail on the head with that because that's exactly how I feel about here too. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And the Mississinowah Triangle, this is where you did your documentary. Yeah.

[00:53:57] We were both kind of curious about how you, about the process of that and how you got involved in that. It's basically my obsession at this point because I'm still trying to, like I said earlier, figure out answers. Because I still want to know what happened to me almost 20 years ago, 19 years ago at this point. I want to know what I saw.

[00:54:21] And once I started doing this show and found out that they too had seen something similar and also had other weird stuff happening. I started noticing kind of a pattern about it, which again seems to be the river system.

[00:54:38] And I started to plot things out on a map and like, I went up here and I went down there and I was like, seems to all be like a lot of high concentration of these weird encounters right along the stretch of rivers, which conveniently turn into a. Anyone can make a triangle if they try to, but like where I was just randomly plotting things like it literally looked like a triangle. So I was like, okay. Okay. That's a triangle. Yeah.

[00:55:05] But like I've had people get, well, of course everyone says things are triangles today. I was like, it's a paranormal thing. Like you have your Bermuda triangles, your Bridgewater triangles, the Alaskan triangle, I guess it's one of those things. But when someone mentions it now, it's recollects to strangeness, like high strangeness areas. So I'm going to use what people are going to understand for a name because someone said that not everything's a triangle. I was like, well, no shit.

[00:55:35] Trapezoid. Okay. You want to be a circle line. I don't know. Like we said earlier, someone's always got something to say. Yeah. Yeah. Pick your geometrical shape and go with it. But no, I, this has been a thing that I've been doing and I've interviewed, I think there's like 14 interviews in this documentary plus a lot of actual infield stuff.

[00:56:02] I had to, I could have turned it into like a docu series just from all the footage I had, but I have so many other people that still have stuff that they keep messaging me and be like, Hey, I got a story for you. I'm like, I'm already done filming. Like I can't, I can't just keep filming because we'll never end. Could have definitely done, been a docu series or you could just do part two.

[00:56:27] Well, we'll see how this first one does because there's been a lot more work than I ever expected it to be. Where can we find it? Is it on Tubi? Sarah and I love Tubi. As of right now, I do not have it set up available for any specific platform. It should be on Tubi and Amazon and Apple and everything. That is my goal, but I don't have distribution lined up yet.

[00:56:55] I'm actually working with a couple different possible distributor media companies. So I'm trying to see which one gives me the best deal before I move on to getting rid of it to go out in the distribution. So like I said, I'm just, I'm not trying to make money at it. I'm just trying to see who's actually going to get it out there for me. Like, I don't want to, I'm not trying to be like rich from it.

[00:57:25] Like I have a normal job. Like I do this as my hobby. I don't make, like I said earlier, I don't make money doing this, but everything I'm doing is I'm just trying to bring awareness to stuff. And at the end of the day, I think we collected a lot of cool stuff, like a lot of stories, but we've actually found some pretty cool stuff in there that most people would probably be surprised that we were able to find. And I know a lot of people are like, well, it's convenient. You went out there for five minutes and found something.

[00:57:55] Yeah, I did. Sorry. Like, I'm sorry. Like we found a bunch of random humanoid footprints in the mud right before Christmas in the middle of the woods. So if someone's walking barefoot in the wintertime of negative 20 degrees. They're an idiot. Yeah. But the toes on it look like they have thumbs. They almost look very primatey.

[00:58:24] And I'm not saying it's Bigfoot because they weren't huge, but the big toes were very off to the sides, unnormal from what a normal person's foot would have looked like. It looked like maybe like someone taking on a ring and hang out for a walk. Weird. Yeah. Can't wait to watch your documentary. I know. I'm excited. Yeah. I said it's about 85 minutes. I've got it all edited and everything's done except for the music part of it.

[00:58:51] My friend's still finishing that, which he was over halfway done with it. So once all that's done, I'm going to let a few of these people watch a private screener and see if they want to pursue it or not. I'm going to edit all this out just by the way. Oh, you are? Yeah. I don't want to leave all this in there in the episode. Yeah. Easter eggs all over the place. Yeah.

[00:59:20] I try not to leave my episode. I don't want to have a lot of my stuff in there. So like, I, I don't like making the episodes where I talk too much. So I'll probably edit the stuff about the documentary out of it. Cause I'm planning on going on shows to talk about it here after it comes out. Yeah. Oh, we should definitely swap then. Yeah. Definitely do that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be awesome.

[00:59:49] Maybe after you get it, uh, get it up, you know, and then we could put a link for it for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I actually just had emailed earlier someone that has released multiple documentaries cause I talked to him last year and he said to get ahold of him when I was done with it. But I've been dealing with like an actual Hollywood studio and they, they do stuff for Netflix and everything. I was like, I am not professional. This is all straight up DIY. I don't know what I'm doing, but the few people that have seen clips from it or whatever claims it looks really good.

[01:00:18] So I'm like, again, I don't know what I'm doing, but I have an idea. What I want it to do. I mean, does anybody know what they're doing? No, we're all just winging it and it's good. It's all good. Well, and I got to give you mad kudos too, for putting something out there like this. It's so controversial. That's, you know, so many people are going to have their issues with, and I think it, you know, you have to be really very confident and very, um, just dedicated to put something

[01:00:47] out there that, you know, that people are going to, you know, roll their eyes at and give you a bunch of shit for. Yeah. I've been dealing with that here the last couple of days since I released that trailer. It's, it has almost 16,000 views across all platforms already in like a couple of days. And I've got so much crap from local people about how they've been around here their whole lives and never had anything out happen to them. So this was just me trying to make money. I was like, you have zero idea of what I've done.

[01:01:18] Like, yeah, you don't know how much money I've spent. Like, whatever. Well, those are the people that aren't going to be open to having experiences either. So no, again, there's plenty of people that have experience and there's plenty of people that don't have experiences just because someone doesn't have an experience doesn't automatically mean someone else doesn't. Right. And that's the hardest pill for a lot of people to swallow is that just because you don't experience it, something for yourself doesn't mean that someone else hasn't experienced

[01:01:46] something that is still very real to them. Like maybe it doesn't want you to experience it. I mean, if I were a ghost, I would not want to be experienced by everybody. I'll tell you what. No. Or cryptic or anything. Now, some of these areas I've actually camped at and I've never had anything personally happen to me there either. So I can vouch for the fact that these people say, well, I've been out there my whole life and nothing's happened yet.

[01:02:12] It hasn't happened to me either, but just because it hasn't happened to me doesn't mean that it hasn't happened to somebody else. Right. I've never seen Australia, but it doesn't mean it's not there. And I think we're all open to, I mean, we all feel differently. Right. So like some people may, it may experience it and not know it. They may not recognize it as being an experience at all.

[01:02:40] I think people have experiences all the time and they just choose not to understand that it's an experience like something. Even people will have deja vu. I've always said like, deja vu, I have it a lot. I feel like when I have it, I always feel queasy from it just because it's like, I've seen this before. Sometimes people have an instinct of things like you can tell when someone's looking at you from across the room, like your body senses that somehow we tap into, we know when something's off.

[01:03:09] So there's been times where people have had instances where something just doesn't feel right. That gut feeling. It's like an intuition to me that they're experiencing something, but they don't see it that way. Like they're just like, Oh, I got a weird feeling. Well, that's not a normal thing. Like you're feeling something that's more, I don't want to say paranormal or supernatural, but like, it's not a normal feeling. I don't know the correct terminology for that experience, but like, you're still experiencing

[01:03:39] something that's letting you know that there was something off. I feel like empathetic or I'm not really sure what the, yeah, what the right word for that would be. I'm going to throw something at you both. So I don't remember where I read this, but they were talking about that feeling of being watched. Okay.

[01:04:02] And it's such a real thing that the U S government along the border of Mexico and the United States has instructed their border patrol agents when they are tracking individuals, uh, that have, you know, that are not supposed to be there. Let's just say that without getting too political, that they have instructed them not to stare

[01:04:30] at them, that they will sense and, and know that they're being watched and go into hiding. So this is a real thing that the U S government knows about. It's a documented thing that if you stare at someone, they will feel it.

[01:04:51] And so I think that when we as experiencers walk into a house that might have energies, we can feel it because it's a real tangible thing. And when you think about like humans, us souls here on earth, having this human experience, we are mostly energy and that's it.

[01:05:20] Now there's not much material there. The material, the, the, the, the, the stuff that we are made of is held together by energy and the actual amount of stuff that is actually there is not very much. I think I saw, I don't remember what it was where I saw it. It was like a couple of tablespoons or something. Like, I don't even know. We're not much. Yeah. We're energy and water and water conducts energy. So there you go. Um, yeah, there's not much to us.

[01:05:51] It's mostly energy. And so it makes a lot of sense that for all of us having these experiences, we just can't quite put our finger on it. Like, what is it that I'm seeing or feeling or hearing or how, you know, but, but it's there. And how, how do you explain it? You can't, it's just because it's just energy. Science. Science. See?

[01:06:20] Sometimes science doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. No, neither is math though. Math's stupid. I will agree on certain aspects to the math being stupid, especially when it comes to the math that has letters and equations and everything that you honestly never really use unless you're like a mathematician or something. Right. I use math every day for work, but it's basic math. It's not. Yeah. Stuff like that.

[01:06:51] My kids are in algebra and everything. I was like, I can't help you because once they're starting getting X equals this and Y plus, I was like, I'm done. Letters and math don't go together for me. Yeah. I can, I can add up lots of numbers and figure out basic business math. But yeah, if you start throwing equations at me, like why? Just why?

[01:07:16] Basic math and stuff like that for volumes and areas and basic geometry I can help you with. But when you start adding in all these other things and it's like a jeopardy thing of figuring out what this was to answer the question. So you're not even answering the question. You're asking the question because they already gave you the answer. It makes no sense to me.

[01:07:40] And then the way that the younger kids have to do math today is not even basic math anymore because of the way they have these weird counting systems to make things like you're making extra steps for something that doesn't need to be there. But that's a completely different tangent. Right. Here's I'll throw some funny, something funny. So when we were learning, and this is way back in the day. Yes, I'm Gen X. I was learning my times table.

[01:08:09] And every week we would do one number, you know, like numbers one. We're going to do the times tables for number two and three, you know. Okay. Week number 11, I got sick. I was sick that week. To this day, I cannot do my 11 times tables because I wasn't at school that week. Oh, confession. Isn't 11 the easy one? Oh, no, it's nine. Probably. Probably.

[01:08:37] I just, you know, I was, I was in, that was when my little brain was growing and I missed that week. And so that really screwed up my 11 times. I don't know. I got to use a calculator. Can't do it. I mean, like I can do it 11, 11. That's 22. I can, I think I can do up to like, oh, okay. I guess I can do up to 99. Okay. That makes sense. But I don't know. It just baffles me. I don't know. I got nothing. I don't know.

[01:09:05] Next week on Verbal Echoes, we're going to talk about the 11 times table. We are. We're totally going to. The math episode that everyone wants to hear. Right. Everyone meaning no one. Absolutely. We've been going on for an hour and 15 minutes and I am freezing. Oh, you need your, your electric snuggie. Yeah.

[01:09:32] So I figure we can get ready to wrap this one up. But is there anything else you would like to discuss before we do? No. Get yourself, get your little ass inside and get warm. Yeah. We, yeah, we just wanted to thank you. I mean, it's been really fun and kind of an honor to come on here and chat with you again.

[01:09:58] And I know we talked a couple years ago and that was really fun also. And yeah, great opportunity to come and chat with you again. And we're hoping to get out in the woods this spring and get out there and start doing some investigation on our own.

[01:10:20] And our hope is to really support women in being a part of a community that has been somewhat dominated by men, I think. There's definitely a lot of women that are involved in the fringe topics.

[01:10:40] But we want to encourage other women to get out there and do the things that they're interested in and get involved. You know, whether it's, you know, supporting their partners or just going out with other women. And yeah. No, I 100% agree. It is definitely more of a man-driven thing, especially when it comes to the cryptid realms.

[01:11:10] I feel like a lot of people going out in the woods and everything you see that are looking for this type of stuff. There's a few ladies that do that. But for the most part, it's always been more of a male-driven type of a thing. But over the last few years, I have noticed a lot more women trying to get involved in this stuff. So I think it's a great thing. Absolutely. And, you know, I was talking with Sarah before we got on, hopped on the call. I was looking at the Olympic project because I was watching the documentary last night.

[01:11:40] And I pulled up the team members for the Olympic project. You know, Mark Marcel's in there and, you know, Shane Corson. But then it's like, wow, there's like six ladies. That's awesome. I think Amy's involved with that, isn't she? Amy Boo. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[01:12:09] I think if you're, regardless of who you are, if you're interested in this, I think the biggest message I want to say is there is a huge community of people that are supportive of you. And you don't have to feel embarrassed or ashamed if you're interested in some of this stuff.

[01:12:32] Because I think the more that we talk about it and we come on podcasts and we spread this information, it makes it more accessible to people to find community. Because it's really hard to find community nowadays. And it makes people feel. You know, there's a little bit of isolation. Yeah, people feel more okay with mentioning it. I mean, you find your people, you know. Everyone always says you find your people.

[01:12:57] And since I've been doing the podcast and we've been doing these conventions and everything else, my wife goes with me. She's actually enjoyed it because we have made some friends along the way that we see at some of the same events. So it's nice to connect with people that have some sort of the same interests. My wife's not really interested in any of this stuff, but she goes along as a supporter. Yeah, she supports you. That's amazing. Yeah.

[01:13:24] She helps make a lot of my stuff too, so I couldn't do this without her. Oh, nice. That's awesome. Would you like to let everyone know the name of the podcast again and where they can find it at? Absolutely. Yeah. So we're Verbal Echo and we're found on pretty much all the streaming platforms, Spotify, iTunes, iHeart, pretty much everywhere.

[01:13:51] I mean, I've released some stuff on YouTube, but I don't know if I'm a fan of YouTube. But just starting to build up my Patreon page. That's going to be a project this summer. Just kind of getting that started. But we've got some plans to start doing some in real life things. And we might do a little bit of amateur filming and release it. So, yeah. Awesome. Going live. Yep. Yeah.

[01:14:26] Thanks for coming on here and talking with me tonight. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you. If you would like to be a guest on Ten Foil Tells, remember to send an email to tenfoiltellspodcast at gmail.com. Or you can also go to tenfoiltells.com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out and get a hold of me and we will get something scheduled for a future episode. You can also find Ten Foil Tells on Facebook and Instagram.

[01:14:56] Just look for Ten Foil Tells Podcast. You can reach out to me that way too. Remember to share the show around. Word of mouth is the best way to help the show grow. And just remember, truth comes at cost. Are you willing to pay the price?