Ep. 57: D-SETI: Dream Study of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence

[00:00:03] And I just turned around and I pulled ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with that.

[00:00:12] The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest.

[00:00:21] When I turned my headlights on it turned and looked at us and

[00:00:25] One of the things I remember the most were the eyes were glowing red.

[00:00:30] I

[00:00:31] See an orb of light it is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me

[00:00:40] And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO they're basically like what are you talking about?

[00:00:50] That's seven foot up on a tree peeking around it

[00:00:53] And that's where I saw the top of the muzzle nose and the eyes as soon as I made eye contact with this thing it felt like

[00:01:01] death

[00:01:05] Hello foil fanatics and welcome back to another new episode of tinfoil tales. I'm your host Brandon today

[00:01:11] We're gonna be joined by my guest Daniel

[00:01:13] Daniel is a researcher who has been looking into the red grid mark phenomena as well as other

[00:01:19] strange

[00:01:20] Markings on people. He also has been researching the whole dream phenomena

[00:01:25] That's associated with this definitely have a long conversation coming up here

[00:01:30] dive it into these different scenarios and theories

[00:01:34] Involved with the red grid mark phenomena and trying to discuss some of the information that he's become aware of

[00:01:41] using geometry a lot of interesting

[00:01:44] Information out there, but before we bring him on you've ever had an experience

[00:01:49] And you'd like to be on tinfoil tales you can send an email to tinfoil tales podcast to gmail.com

[00:01:54] We will get you scheduled on a future episode

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[00:02:51] The other is risk or whatever

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[00:03:01] Thank you for that as well

[00:03:03] appreciate you guys

[00:03:05] You guys probably already aware that I've

[00:03:08] Got a couple books on Amazon ones called shadows of Cedarville the other ones ten foil tells which was just some of the

[00:03:14] Few episodes I recorded last year throw them in a book form

[00:03:17] Shadows of Cedarville is the fictionalized book that I wrote based off my own encounter

[00:03:23] Both are available on Amazon

[00:03:25] You can find us on social media being a little bit more active now on Instagram more or less still on Facebook

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[00:03:40] So wherever you prefer to listen to your podcast

[00:03:44] You can always find the old episodes ten foil tells but I think now we're going to bring Daniel on

[00:03:49] Looking forward to talking with him. Hope you guys enjoy what we're gonna discuss

[00:03:53] So sit back relax and enjoy the show

[00:03:57] Like take this time today to welcome my guest Daniel Daniel, thanks for coming on talking with me

[00:04:02] Thanks for having me

[00:04:04] So what exactly is it that you do for the listeners out there to give them a little bit of an idea of what you're

[00:04:11] researching and

[00:04:12] How we've gotten in contact with each other and the field your studies are in

[00:04:18] Sure. Thank you. Yeah, so we got connected on the red grid mark phenomenon researchers and experiencers group

[00:04:26] That's on Facebook. It's a great group for people who experience the red grid mark phenomenon

[00:04:32] To share photos of this anomalous and geometric body mark

[00:04:37] I got interested in researching that

[00:04:42] phenomenon primarily because it seemed to me associated with ET contact

[00:04:48] Dreams, but also because the

[00:04:51] Experiencers were not as freaked out about these marks as other body mark experiences are so I was really fascinated with that

[00:04:59] my field of study and my focus of research is in ET contact and dreams

[00:05:06] Nowadays we use the term non-human intelligence rather than ET to keep the

[00:05:13] Hypotheses open from just these space travelers to they might be something else maybe angels

[00:05:20] Maybe fairies maybe ourselves in another dimension that sort of thing

[00:05:24] and I

[00:05:26] work with people

[00:05:28] directly through dream work and hypnosis services, so I've been focused on that for about three years straight now

[00:05:36] working with people with missing time

[00:05:39] and I'm in a

[00:05:41] PhD program in

[00:05:44] integral noetic sciences, which is sort of like a

[00:05:47] update to parapsychology

[00:05:49] And my research focus there is ET contact and dreams

[00:05:54] So thanks for having me to talk about these fascinating phenomena

[00:05:58] Now I need to thank me. I'm grateful to have you on here

[00:06:01] That's a lot of topics that I try to go down for episodes and everything so any type of

[00:06:08] Information that I can bring out there for the audience. I definitely appreciate that

[00:06:12] great

[00:06:14] So I do a lot of research with

[00:06:17] The red grid mark groups. There's two ways

[00:06:20] I do research with them and I'll talk about this topic first and foremost as the focus here

[00:06:26] just because we connected there on the on the group and

[00:06:30] The way I work with the red grid mark group is I

[00:06:35] I'm conducting a survey about

[00:06:37] Dreams in association with the red grid mark phenomena just in the moderator of the group spoke a bit about the survey

[00:06:45] he ran

[00:06:46] In your podcast and that survey covered about

[00:06:50] 130 or 140

[00:06:52] Experiences of the red grid mark phenomena and it described its

[00:06:57] Appearance how it shows up on the body what happens?

[00:07:01] And so we we know that there are patterns to the red grid mark and for your listeners who are unfamiliar with that

[00:07:07] I'd recommend checking out Justin

[00:07:10] Sanderson's

[00:07:11] interview with you, but I'll go briefly into what it is it's

[00:07:16] It's a mark that appears on people's bodies in mysterious ways and it's highly geometric

[00:07:22] It's basically a grid of red dots

[00:07:25] that show up in mysterious ways and

[00:07:29] These dots appear to be like radiation burns or burnt cap burst capillaries under the skin

[00:07:37] Generally, there is a discernible pattern

[00:07:40] That may be applied multiple times to the skin it looks like and people

[00:07:46] Generally find them upon waking or they don't remember how these appear

[00:07:51] But there are some

[00:07:53] Experiencers who report seeing them appear the in daytime

[00:07:58] And it's if there's a lot of contradictory or paradoxical

[00:08:03] characteristics of the phenomena what those characteristics are it is

[00:08:09] associated with

[00:08:10] entity visitation either through a direct association with alien abduction or

[00:08:18] Through strange kind of remembered or even just not necessarily remembered but

[00:08:24] Intuitive dream-like experiences of

[00:08:26] Entity encounters and these include spirits spirit guides ghosts ancestors

[00:08:33] ETs and

[00:08:36] You know others let's say and that the

[00:08:40] prevalence of people reporting these strange dreams and entity encounters appears to be more

[00:08:47] Prevalent in this community of experiencers than in the normal population or in other

[00:08:53] Similar types of phenomena. So that's why I was really interested in it

[00:08:59] And it's a very regular phenomenon thousands of people experience it

[00:09:04] People have gone to dermatologists. I worked with a Harvard trained plastic surgeon who experienced the mark

[00:09:13] during brain tumor surgery and had a team of doctors look at it and

[00:09:18] They couldn't figure it out. So there's a lot of mystery associated here

[00:09:24] So I conducted a survey

[00:09:27] That that's still underway

[00:09:29] I'll probably it'll probably run for a few more months and then I'll summarize the data and produce a report

[00:09:35] The other way I work with people there's is through dream work and hypnosis. I've worked with red grid mark experiencers

[00:09:42] We've gone through a

[00:09:45] Regression hypnosis to understand what happens. I have a lot of

[00:09:49] Thought and research around what regression hypnosis is and can do and that's a topic

[00:09:55] We can dive into a bit later

[00:09:57] And that that brings forward some really meaningful information for the experiencers that may or may not necessarily be relevant to the whole community

[00:10:06] for example

[00:10:08] Gray aliens show up at some of them

[00:10:11] Sometimes the spirits in that that sense of identification of who's doing the mark is meaningful to the experiencer

[00:10:18] But as a community it may or may not be applicable

[00:10:23] Primarily because there may be multiple types of agents working on the other side producing this mark

[00:10:30] The final domain of work I do with the red grid mark phenomena is

[00:10:36] Geometric analysis so I use Euclidean constructive geometry. This is based on ruler and compass

[00:10:42] This is sort of like elementary

[00:10:44] Geometry circles and lines and squares and I use that type of geometry to analyze the marks and

[00:10:52] to

[00:10:54] Basically count the number of dots to say this is a hexagonal grid or a square grid and I use that

[00:11:00] Process to discern or make meaning of the mark in whatever way I can so I can say it's placed

[00:11:08] Next to this birthmark in a sacred geometric proportion. I can say it's a hexagonal grid

[00:11:14] I can say that the the mark itself is composed or

[00:11:19] Must have been applied in specific ways

[00:11:23] So that I can start discerning what is how the mark is manifesting and what we can know about it

[00:11:30] And it turns out there's a lot we can know about the mark itself just from looking at how it appears on the body

[00:11:37] In primarily that that insight the insight that I have is that it must be an intelligent

[00:11:45] markmaker that is has some level of

[00:11:48] Empathy with us in our theory of mind. They know we are looking at it

[00:11:56] they are

[00:11:57] Aware of our intelligence and how we perceive it and they're working with us to have some level of communication

[00:12:05] This is the this is the conclusion. I'm coming to is that the mark itself is

[00:12:10] In addition to all it could be is some form of

[00:12:14] Geometric communication from these entities to us and that might involve

[00:12:22] Communication of meaning across multiple phases of consciousness the waking and dreaming phases it might involve some other

[00:12:31] mode of communication

[00:12:33] So those three ways are how I work with a group now

[00:12:39] You've never actually had experiences of your own. Have you so I have had

[00:12:47] In experience I've had anomalous body marks in association with the red grid mark phenomenon group is not red grid mark my

[00:12:54] Kid recently my 12 year old son

[00:12:58] Had what appeared to be the red grid mark phenomena on his face

[00:13:03] But we did research and we found out that he had pressed this face against a

[00:13:10] hexagonal dotted grid

[00:13:12] Metal shelf thing that had was on casters these wheels

[00:13:16] So he would roll it around the floor and sort of just play with it with our toddler and had ended up pushing his face

[00:13:23] Into this grid thing. So I had about a day of going oh my god

[00:13:28] My my son's being marked by the red grid mark. What does this mean?

[00:13:33] So we looked around and I had that experience of finding a prosaic explanation for this and go, okay

[00:13:39] He just pressed this base into it in this really weird way. He was sort of wrestling with this shelf

[00:13:46] experience

[00:13:47] So that was a recent experience the anomalous body mark in association with the red grid mark is arose

[00:13:54] I believe because I did a CE5 style

[00:13:59] Invitation so I started when I worked with a grid mark

[00:14:04] For about a year or so and then I realized that I

[00:14:08] Personally was not afraid of the mark makers that I was discerning a sense of communication in even humor in the

[00:14:15] Marks themselves and beauty

[00:14:18] Creativity and I started seeing qualities of mind these marks that appear to be

[00:14:23] Perhaps human or perhaps human like and so I realized that perhaps they might respond to a CE5 style invitation

[00:14:33] For those who don't know what CE5 is it was a method of human initiated contact experience

[00:14:39] popularized by Dr. Steven Greer and his

[00:14:42] Documentaries like on acknowledged or close encounters of the pith kind

[00:14:47] These are really just it's a meditation you use the power of mind to set an intention and say hey

[00:14:52] I'm willing to have an experience of contact with these entities

[00:14:57] You set up certain guide rails

[00:14:59] Obviously so you don't open the door to all source of entities, but in particular I said hey red grid mark makers

[00:15:07] I believe you're humorous. I believe you're kind. I don't believe you're harmful

[00:15:11] You're allowed to mark my body

[00:15:13] You know so I offered that

[00:15:16] Invitation and about four months later. I experienced a an anomalous geometric body mark

[00:15:21] I first identified as red grid mark, but immediately afterwards said no no no

[00:15:25] This is absolutely not red grid mark, but it is geometric

[00:15:30] So I have a little bit of a sense as to what it's like to be marked with it a geometric mark

[00:15:36] But it is definitely not red grid mark

[00:15:40] Often do you think people are actually marked and they just are unaware?

[00:15:45] That's a really good question. I see my personal experience when I

[00:15:51] When I looked into this I mean my personal experience. I was marked on the body

[00:15:55] I was definitely aware of that and I perceived the mark and I said hey, this is geometric

[00:16:00] This is intelligent. This is the result of some sort of interaction

[00:16:04] It is not an accident. It's not bed bugs. It's not these other things

[00:16:09] But I was unable to substantiate or even remember what happened

[00:16:14] I was like

[00:16:15] Everyone I talked to would say hey that kind of that's that's like bed bugs or something. I don't know

[00:16:21] And there's a thing that happens with the conscious mind when we don't have a rational explanation

[00:16:26] We want to shut down and not

[00:16:28] just even open up to it so

[00:16:31] Even though I experienced the body mark even though clearly to one part of my mind

[00:16:36] It was geometric and meaningful the other part of my mind said no, I'll just forget about it

[00:16:41] And so I've had experiences all of my life with these things

[00:16:46] But I've forgotten a lot about those experiences just because I don't have a

[00:16:51] means to make sense of them from this perspective so

[00:16:55] in there's something called state specific memory and this is the mechanism that

[00:17:02] That causes us to remember things based on smells right so there's a specific state

[00:17:08] associated with those things like a smell of a child at home if you smell something unique from there that

[00:17:15] Reminds you of that place you have much more access to memory

[00:17:19] Associated with that smell and so in the same way, you know waking life

[00:17:23] We don't have a lot of memory of these encounters

[00:17:26] But if we start to encounter things that remind us of it the state specific memory start coming back

[00:17:32] This is a long way to get to you the answer of probably a lot more than we expect

[00:17:38] People are receiving these marks

[00:17:42] a lot of times we just understand that

[00:17:44] Hey, maybe a bad bug bit or

[00:17:48] Insact or hit against something a

[00:17:52] Lot of people do respond to them I work because I've been posting the geometric analysis. I say hey, there's meaning here

[00:17:59] There's strong geometry. It seems communicative you can discern this

[00:18:04] Meaning yourself by applying geometry to it. They go okay, so that there's something about that that gives people to respond to me

[00:18:12] And they say I've had these all my life. Here's some photos like I just didn't talk about it

[00:18:17] So I personally believe that

[00:18:21] There are at least dozens of similar body marks to what I received

[00:18:28] When I I believe I've discovered this phenomenon in in so far that I've connected the dots of

[00:18:35] This type of characteristic mark just like Justin opened up the space of the red grid mark researcher and

[00:18:43] Experiencer group and he there's thousands of people that are now responding

[00:18:46] So we really just need to open up and say hey, this is a thing. That's happening. It's meaningful

[00:18:53] We can't deduce a lot about it quite yet. We don't know what's happening. This is not self-harm

[00:18:58] This is not bed bugs. This is something anomalous and meaningful and if we were to do that as a mainstream culture

[00:19:05] I would suspect that

[00:19:09] Somewhere in the range of one to five percent of

[00:19:14] People would have experienced something like that and that's just a broad guess

[00:19:20] So it would be not

[00:19:22] Common but not rare

[00:19:26] I'm actually it was emailed by someone I just brought it up here

[00:19:31] Apparently during my interview we mentioned it was a recent phenomena

[00:19:36] And they said they were experiencing back in 1972 through 1978

[00:19:41] Okay, and they said back then

[00:19:43] Obviously to have cameras like we do with phones and stuff today so they weren't able just to pop out a camera and take a photo

[00:19:49] but yep

[00:19:51] And then I've been have to go back and find the other one

[00:19:54] But someone also reached out right after the episode it aired with Justin and they said what people are experiencing is it is stigmata

[00:20:01] I'm like that's not really the same thing because I thought stigmata like you bleed. There's like holes and it's more

[00:20:09] Like the crucifixion of Christ so I don't really think that's the same as

[00:20:17] The red grid mark is red grid mark. You don't have blood or anything like that

[00:20:20] They're literally just with these markings on your body that you don't necessarily feel or anything like that

[00:20:28] That's right. Yeah in the

[00:20:30] So the body mark phenomenon has been with us as long as like history, right?

[00:20:35] You talk about stigmata. That's the thing that's happened. That was generally

[00:20:40] Kicked off after st. Francis and there's very interesting

[00:20:45] paintings of him being shot with a beam of light from you know, like

[00:20:51] Jesus in something that looks like a spacecraft, right? Like a Sarah Sarah

[00:20:55] Which is a sacred is depicted as a sacred geometric form with like wings in the face of Christ

[00:21:02] shooting a beam of light at him and then he gets the stigmata

[00:21:07] It happens stigmata has happened since then and then before then there was

[00:21:12] There are accounts of body marks

[00:21:16] in association with fairies and witches

[00:21:20] Generally is where there's a lot of a lot more documentation that goes back hundreds of years

[00:21:27] And the question for me is if these are the same phenomena are different

[00:21:32] If they're the same phenomenon something's happening within the physical body

[00:21:37] That is almost psychosomatic in its

[00:21:41] responding to a

[00:21:44] spiritual template or religious template so because the

[00:21:49] Stigmata experiences are religious and use the iconography of Christ on the cross. They receive the holes

[00:21:56] holes in the hand or wrists that are bloody

[00:21:59] but if the experiences are more technologically oriented like modern people they might

[00:22:07] receive a template of

[00:22:09] interaction that's based on

[00:22:13] Technological motifs like

[00:22:16] hybridization or medical experimentation and

[00:22:20] a hypothesis could be put forward that the

[00:22:23] non-human intelligences have a

[00:22:27] Kind of quality of formlessness, but when they interact with humans in

[00:22:32] historical time

[00:22:33] They need forms and those forms are in part determined by our the contents of our imagination

[00:22:41] And this this type of

[00:22:44] Hypothesis has been put forward by the the famous research researcher Jacques Ballet

[00:22:50] when he observed the the long history of fairy lore in its

[00:22:56] Correspondence with abduction lore and seeing that there are you know similar

[00:23:01] Experiences happening when in in the distant past and we just said hey these are fairies and angels

[00:23:10] The sense of having that from the 70s is interesting

[00:23:14] I believe that may be one of the earliest cases that people have discussed

[00:23:18] There's one photograph of the red grid mark in the 60s

[00:23:22] But that was definitely not red grid mark because it was a burn that someone was hospitalized for in

[00:23:28] Association with viewing a UFO it was sort of like understood to be an exhaust

[00:23:33] Fume and that's called the Falcon Lake incident and I believe that was in the 60s

[00:23:37] So I would I'd love to follow up with that

[00:23:41] That about the red grid mark specifically

[00:23:45] Yeah, the email says it from 1972 to 1978

[00:23:49] And then they included a post that they put on a Facebook group since I was out on a Facebook group

[00:23:53] I'll go ahead and read that. Yeah, it said a

[00:23:57] A

[00:23:57] Recent post from the scratches appearing on a person in the night jogged my memory to something that used to happen to me

[00:24:03] Many years ago when I was in my teens and early 20s weird dot patterns that would randomly appear in the upper left quadrant of my back

[00:24:11] No, it wasn't acne. It wasn't a rash the dots were very precise and patterned it didn't itch

[00:24:16] Mern or hurt the pattern was just there

[00:24:19] No, I wasn't sitting in my back against a chair that had similar patterns

[00:24:23] My dad was a science was my dad was mr. Science and he tried

[00:24:27] Every rational explanation to come up and came up empty it happened at college and it happened at home

[00:24:34] Mom took me to a dermatologist

[00:24:36] He was mystified at some point. It just stopped happening. I'm not sure when has anybody had any experiences like this or thoughts

[00:24:45] So that was the post that they had made on this group

[00:24:50] but the like I said the person themselves actually emailed me after they found the episode and

[00:24:56] This was back in June

[00:24:59] But uh, no, they said that's was back in 1972 through 1978 and then it just kind of quit happening

[00:25:07] Interesting. Yeah, that that experience is is a very typical of red grid mark

[00:25:11] Precise grids no pain doesn't burn doesn't itch. There's a mystery that's present, but there's not necessarily the

[00:25:20] quality of

[00:25:22] paranoia or fear that is typically associated with the abduction marks at least when I've done my research into

[00:25:29] other body marks, there's you know

[00:25:33] Scratch marks or other things like that or dots that sort of thing and people sometimes are much more freaked out by this

[00:25:39] There's sort of a sense of

[00:25:42] Quiet mystery as sort of perturbing but not necessarily like

[00:25:47] damaging or

[00:25:49] Paranoia or something like that. Thank you for sharing that

[00:25:53] Yeah, no problem. I've gotten a lot of emails actually and

[00:25:59] Comments and stuff from people

[00:26:02] Someone actually tried to get ahold of my wife to get ahold of me because they found

[00:26:07] My thing on Facebook and I wasn't responding to their messages because it goes automatically to your

[00:26:13] You're not a friend with the person that goes to like a junk folder or something. Yep

[00:26:17] so they were messaging my wife to try and get ahold of me because

[00:26:21] They discovered this on their spouse

[00:26:24] And I was like, I'm not an expert or anything about like I literally

[00:26:27] Had a guy on that experienced it and he has this group or whatever

[00:26:30] but all these people kind of reach out to me over this red grid mark and

[00:26:35] And

[00:26:37] The more I've tried to dig into it. I've actually went on different search engines

[00:26:40] I've went to some that like duck that go that aren't necessarily

[00:26:44] Like monitored by Google or whatever and yep, I still come up empty finding

[00:26:50] Very little info about the red grid mark promise. I still think it's something that's really low on the radar

[00:26:57] It is surprisingly low on the radar. I am I'm actually shocked

[00:27:01] It took me a while to realize just

[00:27:05] How low on the radar it is, you know, because there's there's there's like 2,000 people now in the group

[00:27:11] There's hundreds of photographs

[00:27:14] actually experiential dreaming comm did a

[00:27:19] dossier they made they did in-depth interviews and photographs with three to 400

[00:27:23] Experiences probably about ten years ago now

[00:27:27] There were three researchers that were really into dreaming and the connection between red grid mark and dreaming and they interviewed all these people

[00:27:35] Took photographs did a lot of research put it up on a website

[00:27:39] They charge about ten dollars for the the research

[00:27:43] And that's the only other research that I see

[00:27:48] associated with red grid mark phenomena. I

[00:27:51] I'm a PhD student, so I'm interested in research

[00:27:56] I want to do research. I've been talking to people about this

[00:28:00] You know, I

[00:28:02] presented a little bit on this phenomena in the International Association of the Study of Dreams conference this summer and

[00:28:10] I had a few people a few professional scientists, you know come up to me afterwards and say hey that your talk was interesting

[00:28:16] I'd love to help out but that's as far as it's gotten so far

[00:28:21] I believe with kind of academic or scientifically based research

[00:28:25] I've been telling people about it what Justin's been talking to people about it. It seems so

[00:28:32] fascinating, I mean a number of experiences go to doctors and say what is this and they don't they can't explain it

[00:28:40] And it seems so obviously

[00:28:44] intelligently designed

[00:28:46] So I think a lot of what happens is researchers either

[00:28:51] Go this is clearly

[00:28:53] People sitting on benches. This is clearly a

[00:28:58] Backpack mesh pushed into people's back

[00:29:01] However, if you actually look at the thousands of photographs we have it that it's clear that those explanations can account for

[00:29:10] Probably a majority of the phenomena, but there's a minority that

[00:29:15] demonstrate

[00:29:16] immense creativity and I would say actually artistry and

[00:29:21] technical skill and application that you cannot

[00:29:26] explain any other way than

[00:29:28] intentional

[00:29:30] Geometric communication, let's say there's there's a reason why it's coming together and it may use different elements like the

[00:29:38] Template the the grid pattern itself may actually be that long-range biopsy device that Justin talks about

[00:29:45] But to my eyes how it's applied

[00:29:48] Me is it has specific meaning and I am thinking about the circular

[00:29:54] Red grid marks actually because they are composed of sort of pie slices of what appears to be the same

[00:30:02] Template applied over and over again for a very specific reason, which is the construction of these these circles out of these different

[00:30:10] Bits of the grid or something like that. The circles themselves are quizzical

[00:30:15] They have beautiful patterns in them

[00:30:17] There's you know like a quarter of the circumference will have these big bigger dots for some reason

[00:30:23] There's specific numbers associated with it and if I look into the geometry

[00:30:30] sacred geometry

[00:30:31] Meaningful constants

[00:30:33] Meaningful relationships just fall out of it. So and I've looked through a lot of other types of body marks

[00:30:40] I've analyzed things that appear to be the grid mark, but aren't so there is a heightened degree of communication here

[00:30:50] And so I think what ends up happening with these scientists they go they either say hey is it these people don't know what?

[00:30:58] Sitting on grid benches does to people and so all of the red grid mark

[00:31:03] Experiences are diluted in thinking there's a mysterious explanation or they

[00:31:09] Intuit that

[00:31:11] It's an intelligent phenomena that we can't explain that demonstrates advanced technology

[00:31:18] And nobody's ready to handle that like that's a really hard thing to engage

[00:31:24] Funders of research is really hard to put your reputation on the line to say hey

[00:31:30] I think this is a an artifact of advanced technology of non-human intelligence

[00:31:35] And to even put forward that

[00:31:38] Hypothesis as a professional researcher as an academic or scientist is

[00:31:43] Risky and so I think that's in part why there's not more of a

[00:31:51] Presence for a focus on this I

[00:31:55] Think that's a very big reason

[00:31:58] to

[00:31:59] Just look at the landscape we have right now with these UAP hearings and everything that's went on in the last few months and

[00:32:08] I

[00:32:09] Would have never thought ten years ago that Congress would have ever openly talked about something like that

[00:32:15] And here it was in the last two or three years now they had hearings about it discussions about it. I

[00:32:22] Feel like this is a phenomenon that

[00:32:25] Needs to be brought up obviously it's not that we are aware of affecting people in the sense of harming them

[00:32:31] But at the same time it's something strange that literally is going on

[00:32:36] And no one seems to know about I know on the Mayo Clinic

[00:32:41] There is like 20 something different pages of people asking about these marks and they never got a single response from them

[00:32:47] Yep, it's like

[00:32:50] They just ignore it like no one wants to look into it. It's

[00:32:54] Clearly someone's experience of these things and

[00:32:58] Dermatologists don't know what they are other doctors and stuff look at and have no idea what they are

[00:33:03] But then it just gets swept under the rug that they don't want to discuss with them

[00:33:06] I want to research and no one wants to

[00:33:09] Be the first ones to blow the lid off this thing

[00:33:13] That's right. And that's why I'm approaching it from the that's why I have the dream study angle going because dreams are weird already

[00:33:21] You know dreams are weird enough already for the mainstream that we can study we go, okay, there's a phenomena here

[00:33:28] Let's just look at the dreams and say what the contents of the dreams are if there's any patterns

[00:33:33] I think that will be a step forward in terms of actually publishing on this and so

[00:33:41] In the in the research. I'm doing I'm just collecting dreams. I'm I'm going to interview some

[00:33:46] Experiences and I'll put together

[00:33:49] Pretty standard

[00:33:51] Dream studies

[00:33:53] Research on this topic say these are the dreams of these

[00:33:56] Experiences as an aside we get to describe the the actual phenomena that's happening and my hope is that I can get that paper

[00:34:05] peer-reviewed which should be

[00:34:08] relatively easy enough because we're doing

[00:34:11] Standard dream studies kind of what did you dream about? I'm using a very standard method

[00:34:16] of asking people about their dreams and then hopefully as an aside we'll get the the

[00:34:23] phenomenon characteristics published and that could be a

[00:34:27] Step forward for other researchers to cite this paper

[00:34:31] So let's actually look into not the dreams, but the physical aspect of this this phenomenon

[00:34:37] Yeah, it's it's fascinating to me I get riled up a little bit about this because

[00:34:44] It's clearly communicative. It's clearly geometrically meaningful it

[00:34:50] There's clear connections with entities

[00:34:53] Whether or not they're angels or aliens or secret humans we still have to figure out

[00:35:00] But there's enough data in the geometry and the application that we could literally build a model of

[00:35:08] The how it's being made right we could we could slow we could we could build a model of

[00:35:15] How it's applied in the the theory that we have is that it is applied as light shines through

[00:35:23] Templates or in I use the metaphor of a dark room

[00:35:27] So there's a light source it goes through a photo negative and goes on to photo sensitive paper the photo sensitive

[00:35:35] sensitive paper would be analogous to the skin the

[00:35:39] the dark room light is analogous to whatever source of light they have and

[00:35:45] the

[00:35:46] Photograph the negative is something similar to the grid pattern that they're using to make the marks

[00:35:54] There's another couple elements associated with

[00:35:58] this model and that would be

[00:36:01] Opaque sheets of paper basically so in dark room photography you might isolate specific elements of the photograph to expose them or

[00:36:11] It's called dodge and burn basically

[00:36:12] So you add more light to areas and you prevent light from hitting some areas of the

[00:36:18] Photo paper in order to make the contrast the way you want and use those pieces of paper between the film and

[00:36:25] The negative to do that control and we see that actually happening

[00:36:30] It I see that happening in the geometry of the marks when you look into it. They're clearly

[00:36:36] They have something like a dark room

[00:36:40] Projector and they're shining it onto the skin and they do multiple applications

[00:36:45] And those things become very apparent and there's certain deviations from the

[00:36:51] Euclidean construction that design

[00:36:53] so you can start to see the

[00:36:56] Accidental effects of physical bodies like having light shined onto the curved bodies or people moving

[00:37:04] That's another thing you can see and so there's enough

[00:37:08] deviations from those patterns in regular

[00:37:11] Meaningful ways that we can start to use those sort of how these dots get

[00:37:17] Expanded as they land on the contours of the body in how they're applied multiple times to start

[00:37:23] To go how could this actually happen with this metaphor of a darkroom projector

[00:37:29] film and

[00:37:31] Photo paper and we could actually start to go. Okay, we could reproduce some of the designs

[00:37:37] That they're using as the fundamental templates that they're applying to the red grid mark

[00:37:41] And that would be fascinating to me and that that requires that would that would that's implied by the geometry

[00:37:48] That we're seeing as something we could do

[00:37:52] We have there's one case of a photograph of something that seems like someone someone took a photograph of their kid that received the mark

[00:38:00] Which was an interesting hexagonal grid pattern

[00:38:03] But there's a triangle of light that you can see in the photograph and something in that triangle of light

[00:38:11] And so there it seems to be something like an interdimensional machine or something like that

[00:38:16] But to actually build a physical model of it

[00:38:19] Would move us forward into understanding

[00:38:24] What what is even possible? How is it even possible that these are technically applied?

[00:38:29] That seems it seems like so obvious to me to be the next step something we need to do as as

[00:38:37] People who are researching this mark as humans really this is a mystery that deserves

[00:38:44] Investigation because thousands of people are experiencing it and it's so mysterious and

[00:38:50] Exhibits such qualities that it has to be advanced technology. There's no other rational

[00:38:57] explanation

[00:38:58] That is being applied through intelligent design and it opens up so many questions like who are these people making the marks

[00:39:04] Why are they doing that? Why are they doing it in such a way that we could

[00:39:08] Build a model of their device to do that and that sort of feels like they are

[00:39:14] Leading us towards technological development. That's one of the deductions

[00:39:19] I have is this if we investigate this we will then have the technology that is necessary to

[00:39:26] Produce such marks and it doesn't seem like it's that far away from actually understanding

[00:39:32] It would require a research grant

[00:39:35] Requires some scientists right like we need we need it just it requires hours of time to

[00:39:43] Collect the data collate it even from the red grid mark phenomenon group

[00:39:47] There's tremendous amount of data, but it's not structured in a way that could be analyzed easily

[00:39:53] So we have to go through certain processes and just nobody's doing it

[00:39:58] No one's offer. No one's offered me funding to do it

[00:40:00] No, no, there's no grants out there to study anomalous body marks that I know of

[00:40:06] So I wish that were something that we could do as a people in that science were more open to that

[00:40:12] I do see actually science moving in that direction and the UAP hearings to be

[00:40:18] Kind of a watershed threshold moment

[00:40:21] because what's the

[00:40:22] Testimony of the ua ufo whistleblower right is really received heard

[00:40:27] And if anything comes out of that from congress that confirms the presence of non-human and intelligence

[00:40:33] And uap's in our world and the reality of these things are confirmed by the government

[00:40:39] Then that opens the door for

[00:40:42] mainstream funding organizations science and academia to start

[00:40:47] Asking the questions what about the biologists? What about the pilots?

[00:40:51] What about the intelligences where before it was just sort of ridiculous to ask those questions?

[00:40:57] So it's a very exciting time. Um, and I'm looking forward in the next five years to see where this goes

[00:41:04] Now has anyone done I don't know if it's in that I think there's like 73 pages of that

[00:41:09] Survey and I I flipped through it. I don't remember everything about it

[00:41:13] Does it ever determine what layer of the skin these marks were on that anyone ever figure that out?

[00:41:20] Not to my knowledge. No

[00:41:22] I

[00:41:24] remember Justin talking about how it being somewhere at the layer of tattoo or sunburn, but there's there's not been any any

[00:41:32] Investigation regarding that

[00:41:35] This is that's actually one of the characteristics

[00:41:37] That I used to determine if a photograph is

[00:41:42] A red grid mark phenomenon or not, right?

[00:41:45] So if there's a puncture wound it's not red grid mark if there's a scratch

[00:41:50] It's not red grid mark if it's below the first layer of the skin or the skin isn't damaged

[00:41:57] Then it is

[00:42:02] Which provides clues as to what and how it's happening

[00:42:06] What those clues say it's it's hard to say sounds like you have an intuition about that. I would be interested in hearing

[00:42:13] Well, I was just thinking like and you just mentioned tattoos. I know people

[00:42:18] Like when they get tattoos removed

[00:42:22] I've seen it being done to use like this laser and it kind of like burns

[00:42:25] But again, even if it was a laser it burns the actual skin. This is not leaving a burn

[00:42:31] So and you don't feel it so even with like a sunburn

[00:42:34] You would still somewhat feel the discomfort of a sunburn

[00:42:38] So I don't know that's why I was curious about what layer of skin it's on because if it's below

[00:42:43] A certain layer and it just shows up there's got to be some sort of

[00:42:49] Means of for to appear and if it's like you were saying almost like a

[00:42:54] A dark room type scenario

[00:42:56] it would almost be like almost

[00:42:58] I would say heat or to an extent like a laser or somehow they'd be getting under the skin without damaging the skin

[00:43:05] And I don't understand that's where I'm trying to wrap my head around like

[00:43:08] What could cause something like that without actually damaging the skin because even with people with tattoos

[00:43:13] You fill the tattoo and if you're getting it removed by a laser, you feel that too

[00:43:16] So I don't know how you would

[00:43:19] Be able to get something underneath someone's skin without actually feeling it

[00:43:23] Yeah, there's one there's one precedent we have from science that can help us understand

[00:43:29] At least that this is possible and I believe

[00:43:32] Stanford researchers did something with

[00:43:35] Chymatics so that's using sound waves to produce patterns and we typically see this in a

[00:43:41] They call it a quadney plate experiment. Whereas a metal

[00:43:46] Uh of sheet of metal you pour sand on it and you get the metal sheet of metal to vibrate according to a frequency

[00:43:54] The sand jumps into

[00:43:58] Lines basically or patterns that are determined by the constructive interference

[00:44:04] Of the of the sound waves

[00:44:06] So, um, this is like if you have a singing bowl or a wine glass full of water

[00:44:11] You vibrate that you can see these ripples on the on the surface of the water

[00:44:16] The same thing happens with the sand on the metal plate. That's the claudony plate

[00:44:21] Um, and so you can produce a highly complex

[00:44:26] patterns through the introduction of multiple frequencies of sound that emulate actually

[00:44:35] The some of the patterns were seen so the Stanford research applied it to I believe heart cells

[00:44:42] That were kind of harvested from people

[00:44:45] Somehow I get I don't know how and they put them on plates and they could demonstrate that they

[00:44:51] Could move these human body cells into these regular

[00:44:58] Patterns that appeared. Uh, I mean there there were certain there were

[00:45:03] Hexagonal grids of dots right and that's classic red grid mark phenomenon

[00:45:08] um

[00:45:10] That that's a proof of concept um as to how that's possible

[00:45:15] Um, although the red grid mark phenomena in addition to having like

[00:45:19] Hexagonal grids of dots they have the inverse pattern where they shadow diamonds

[00:45:25] Diamonds of the negative space

[00:45:28] Instead of the dots on the positive kind of grid marks. So there's an inversion thing happening which would sort of um

[00:45:36] Be a complication to applying that that climatics example

[00:45:41] To the red grid mark. That's that that's a clue

[00:45:44] Um, even though we're using sound instead of light in this case

[00:45:49] Yeah, the vibrations and everything everyone has their own frequencies and vibrations and all that within

[00:45:54] our world I've often wondered if uh

[00:45:59] Maybe it is somehow related to like

[00:46:02] vibration

[00:46:03] but

[00:46:04] Like with a sunburn and again, I'm

[00:46:08] I'm no expert or scientist or anything like that. I'm just a guy

[00:46:12] But isn't it a sunburn

[00:46:14] Kind of it's not like broken blood vessels, but isn't it kind of like uh the chemicals released from a thinning layer

[00:46:21] of like your uh

[00:46:24] The vessel walls. I don't know what the technical term is that causes a sunburn

[00:46:29] Oh

[00:46:30] Yeah, I don't know you'll have to that sounds about right to me, but I'm not uh, I I don't I don't have that information

[00:46:36] Well, I'm just wondering like if it's something like if the sun was able to weaken

[00:46:41] Like your blood vessels like the walls of the blood vessels or whatever and that's what causes the redness

[00:46:46] I wonder if whatever's happened if these like you said with a vibration or something. I wonder if that's what's weakening

[00:46:52] The walls to make these little patterns. Yep

[00:46:56] so

[00:46:57] All right, I

[00:46:59] I try and think and sound intelligent, but I'm I'm I'm a nobody. I don't know anything

[00:47:05] Oh, I think it's important actually to follow the intuition

[00:47:09] So this is that this is one of the insights I would like to put forward

[00:47:13] Uh, and my research is putting forward is that everyone

[00:47:17] has

[00:47:19] Universal access to an intuition that gives them the power to

[00:47:25] Gain insight regarding these interactions

[00:47:27] We have with aliens or non-human intelligences and they also every single human has the capacity

[00:47:35] to mediate those encounters and relationships with the non-human intelligences or aliens or whatever

[00:47:42] Um, they have the capacity to mediate those relationships or negotiate those relationships for their own benefit and the collective benefit of humanity

[00:47:51] The reason why I say that is because um

[00:47:54] Of the precedent of dream shamanism. So this is a type of culture dream shamanic cultures

[00:48:01] universally see that every single person can

[00:48:07] engage with these kind of dreamlike domains and so in primitive cultures

[00:48:13] Uh, the alien story or the angel story or the fairy story may have been lumped together in something like a dream

[00:48:19] And they honor these dream experiences as real but also as dreamlike

[00:48:24] Um, and they also see that by talking about them just like we're doing here and now

[00:48:30] And by applying intention to them through ritual expression

[00:48:35] They can gain insight gain knowledge and we have proof from these dream shamanic cultures that the knowledge that they gain

[00:48:42] may be

[00:48:44] scientifically advanced to such a degree that they they can't know it

[00:48:48] Or may be precognitive so that it can take action like avoiding a tidal wave or something like that for collective benefit

[00:48:56] So it's a it's a universal quality that is being expressed through

[00:49:02] primarily intuitive and creative modes of thinking

[00:49:05] That our western mainstream culture because of our focus on the objective

[00:49:11] repeatable kind of experiments and this highly tech

[00:49:15] technical jargon we go oh, oh all that all that intuition is meaningless

[00:49:20] Right. You have to be an expert to understand this

[00:49:24] Actually, I say if we look to dream shamanic cultures as as healthy examples of relating to these different domains

[00:49:32] they do so it through

[00:49:36] Universal intuition and everyone's equally empowered to relate to that

[00:49:41] And it's not just the experts. So that's that's something that's very important to bring up

[00:49:45] And we touched in on this when we were like, oh like I'm not like I'm not an expert on sunburns

[00:49:51] You're not either but you're touching into an intuition

[00:49:54] That is likely meaningful and should we follow that will likely lead to

[00:49:59] Uh, at least personally meaningful discoveries that are will likely I mean have significance to the group

[00:50:06] So I just wanted to call that out

[00:50:10] Yeah, so I just I try and look at things

[00:50:14] Like in a rational sense to try and explain stuff

[00:50:17] Like you'd said like people sit on these grid patterns from a bench or

[00:50:21] Something like that that can explain a lot of it

[00:50:24] But yeah, I've seen photos

[00:50:27] on top of a little girl's head and

[00:50:32] Spots under like on a wrist or whatever. There's nothing that you could lean

[00:50:36] That would make those patterns

[00:50:38] And then they'd be there for several days to me. That's a lot of pressure

[00:50:41] It seems like and who would do that to their kid just to take a photo

[00:50:45] that doesn't

[00:50:46] That doesn't add up when I see the kids involved with it

[00:50:49] Like I could see like the intricate patterns someone said on something and did it and said, oh look what I have

[00:50:54] Okay, well, what's the point of that too like

[00:50:57] Wow, you got like a couple people talking about it on the internet cool

[00:51:01] I mean, that doesn't really I don't see the need of why someone would fake this

[00:51:05] It doesn't you're not gonna become famous for you know what I mean

[00:51:10] Oh, absolutely and especially in the context of the lack of recognition from mainstream culture like we were talking about

[00:51:17] It's almost uncanny how researchers are ignoring this topic

[00:51:22] um

[00:51:23] Right like no one's going to care

[00:51:26] Right everyone will be like why is this mark happening?

[00:51:29] You know in my case with with my son, right? He he we try to figure it out together and he

[00:51:36] Uh, he stuck his his other cheek on the thing of his own accord. It wasn't actually you know

[00:51:43] It was for him. It was a couple of seconds

[00:51:46] Uh

[00:51:47] Pressing into it. Uh, it didn't look painful for him and he we wanted photographs of it afterwards

[00:51:54] Um

[00:51:55] And they it showed up almost exactly like the mark. It was it was really strange for me

[00:52:00] I tried doing it myself and my skin didn't respond the same way as his

[00:52:05] um

[00:52:06] For me personally the the response of the the association with dreams

[00:52:12] And the the mystery and perplexity that people have can't be faked, right?

[00:52:17] So it's like if a kid has this mark and they're like I had this weird dream of

[00:52:21] This giant reptile and a tube coming down and we were in a bus without without walls, right?

[00:52:29] Like those are qualities and characteristics that are of dreams like the like the the vehicle without walls tubes

[00:52:37] and

[00:52:38] strange entities, right though that combination is seen across the like

[00:52:43] People reporting dreams in different channels associated with these marks

[00:52:47] It's really hard to fake that level of like what does this even mean? Like why is this here?

[00:52:53] um in that that connection with uh, something that feels discernible with the dreams is very

[00:53:00] inspiring to me

[00:53:01] Um, and that's one of the things I'm hoping to elucidate or discover is the patterns of what these entity encounters

[00:53:09] In dreams might signify to us as a group

[00:53:14] Yeah, the lucid dreaming I've heard about like people

[00:53:17] I've seen it in the group or whatever and I've seen other people talk about it

[00:53:21] That when they have these things they have like very

[00:53:25] strange dreams lucid dreaming

[00:53:28] and

[00:53:30] I don't know if they experienced it

[00:53:32] The night that they woke up the next morning or if they've had it well since they've had the mark

[00:53:36] I don't really know how that plays out

[00:53:39] but

[00:53:40] I have heard of a lot of people

[00:53:42] Saying they've had like really strange dreams when they've had these marks

[00:53:48] Yeah, uh, that happens. I believe there's actually a spectrum of

[00:53:53] Experience so I think there's a function related to people's normal dream recall frequency

[00:53:59] So that's a term dream scientists use to say hey, how often do you normally remember a dream?

[00:54:05] So if your dream recall frequency is low, you may not actually remember

[00:54:11] Uh, remember the dreams associated with the mark or the experiences associated with the mark

[00:54:17] And one of the distinctions I I always put forward is dream scientists do not define

[00:54:23] Dreams as nocturnal hallucinations anymore

[00:54:27] I said the dream scientists say hey, you can have dream experiences while in waking stage

[00:54:33] This is a type of conscious experience or experience in consciousness

[00:54:38] so you can have dreams from waking like daydreams

[00:54:42] Or hypnagogia. So that's this phase between sleeping and waking or in the traditional kind of conventional understanding of dreams. So

[00:54:51] I I say actually it's possible to have a dream

[00:54:54] While driving is seeing the mark happen and even though you're driving in in the waking phase

[00:55:01] You're still having a dream like experience unfold. So that's another kind of complexity to the inquiry

[00:55:08] um, but this sense of

[00:55:10] People remembering their dreams or not there are

[00:55:13] high dream recall

[00:55:15] People who remember their dreams more frequently and this is the experience I have with

[00:55:21] working with a lot of the

[00:55:23] People who respond to me especially asking for the geometric analysis

[00:55:28] They say I go, okay. This is a great mark. Did you have any dreams? They're like, I have so many strange dreams all the time

[00:55:35] Yeah, probably I had strange dreams around this mark

[00:55:38] But my life is full of strange dreams and that's that's one of the common responses I get

[00:55:43] So this this says of people remembering strange dreams in association

[00:55:48] with the mark

[00:55:49] I believe is you know, if they they remember the strange dreams in association with the mark

[00:55:54] They're sort of like in between active dreamers and people who don't actually remember their dreams frequently

[00:56:01] um, so they they remember these ones because they're

[00:56:04] Additionally strange and then people who remember their dreams all the time. They have a hard time

[00:56:09] Actually pinning down

[00:56:11] What dream happened the night of the mark because they've had a week full of like angel visitation dreams or light dreams

[00:56:19] Or these these heightened strange dreams

[00:56:24] weirdly enough and

[00:56:26] I'm not a bs or anything like that

[00:56:30] But I vaguely remember a dream last night about

[00:56:34] Alien stuff, but I don't remember if I was watching it or what I don't like I vaguely remember dreams

[00:56:39] I'm not like a lucid dreamer, but

[00:56:41] I don't know because I knew we were gonna have this talk today or whatever

[00:56:44] But I just remember part of my dream and there was something to do with like aliens in the background

[00:56:48] And that was all it was like I don't the nothing to do with the dream

[00:56:52] I don't even remember what the dream was even about but I just remember vaguely that that was mentioned somewhere in my dream

[00:56:58] There was something going on in the background about aliens

[00:57:01] So yeah

[00:57:03] That's really interesting. Um

[00:57:06] I

[00:57:07] That's very similar to a lot of the dreams I have when I do dream work or hypnosis with people

[00:57:12] These are meaningful events these kind of encounters with people who have experiences

[00:57:18] the

[00:57:19] In dreams and things like that. So I experience dreams in association with my clients who come to me

[00:57:27] They're dream people or whatever their spirit guides. They sometimes talk to me in their dreams

[00:57:32] I don't have a full consciousness as to what those

[00:57:36] mean

[00:57:37] necessarily and a lot of my

[00:57:39] experienced dreams

[00:57:40] Like the the dream I had the night

[00:57:42] I received the anomalous geometric body mark that I call a dachshund line phenomenon dial di al

[00:57:49] I had a series of

[00:57:52] Dreams where these aliens or non-human intelligences were sort of just there in the dream space

[00:57:59] And I didn't have a lot of visibility as to what was going on

[00:58:04] And I came back from the dream and I said hey this the my my dreaming self as I returned to my waking self

[00:58:12] Had specific intuitions within it

[00:58:14] And I was convinced this was a lucid dream. I was I was like this is a lucid dream

[00:58:21] I interacted with entities, but actually all I remember

[00:58:25] Is a dream that's very similar to what you described not something happening

[00:58:28] And there's aliens in the background and there's not a lot of content to sink your teeth into

[00:58:34] But I had those convictions upon entering into waking so I think

[00:58:39] um, a lot of these interactions are happening below the surface of consciousness

[00:58:45] And they don't really need to have a full on

[00:58:49] conscious interaction with us

[00:58:51] um

[00:58:52] The other thing I would say about your dream experience and this is one of the stranger

[00:58:58] Things I've experienced working with people's dreams is they can be both

[00:59:03] personally or personally meaningful and transpersonally meaningful

[00:59:08] So rather than saying is this uh, is this dream of aliens real or just a dream?

[00:59:15] um, I say is this

[00:59:18] personally significant and transpersonally significant

[00:59:22] um because oftentimes we don't have

[00:59:25] A way to objectively measure these things or have repeatable experiences

[00:59:30] But the distinction between personally significant meaning it's just just related to me

[00:59:36] My subconscious my desires

[00:59:39] Whatever or is it transpersonally significant meaning does it go beyond the personal psyche?

[00:59:45] Is this in the realm of collective unconscious?

[00:59:47] Is this in the realm of spirit that has the capacity to impact our objective world, but it's primarily

[00:59:55] psychospiritual and so in that way these dreams that are personally sort of insignificant may actually be

[01:00:04] Transpersonally significant in a way. We don't understand yet

[01:00:09] Yeah, like I said with mine

[01:00:11] I vaguely remember I think I was talking to like my daughter or something like that

[01:00:15] And I think like a tv in the background had like alien. I don't know like

[01:00:20] Like I said, I don't I didn't take it as anything significant

[01:00:22] I just I vaguely remember bits and pieces of my dreams for whatever reason when I woke up today

[01:00:27] That's the one bit of a dream that I remember

[01:00:29] yep

[01:00:31] Interestingly like I didn't I I didn't remember my dreams from last night

[01:00:34] But my wife talked my wife is a now a source of dream messages

[01:00:38] She she'll have dreams about aliens or UFOs

[01:00:42] And tell me about them and like, oh, okay. This is actually personally meaningful to me

[01:00:47] She's like, I don't know what this means like, oh, okay

[01:00:49] This makes sense in the context of what I'm doing today in terms of talking to people

[01:00:53] So there's a lot of ways a lot of ways that can talk to us

[01:00:57] the other thing that I found interesting in working with so many dreams is that

[01:01:04] Sometimes the dreams

[01:01:06] are

[01:01:08] Meaningless in this moment like we asked like what does this even mean? Why am I having this and then weeks later or months later years later

[01:01:15] You'll discover they're precognitive or you discover their specific meaning there

[01:01:20] So that's another another reason to pay attention to dreams and to

[01:01:24] record them

[01:01:26] Is you never know what ends up happening

[01:01:29] And you never know what in retrospect is meaningful. Um, and so that's

[01:01:35] One of the advice I would give to people is to just just pay attention more

[01:01:40] And as you pay attention more to the dreams and their correspondence with waking life

[01:01:46] They start to talk more to you because they know you're paying attention to them

[01:01:52] Yeah, I always try and remember my dreams if I do and like I said, I yeah

[01:01:57] I'm not one that remembers too much

[01:01:59] But sometimes I remember some goofy things and laugh about it the next day

[01:02:02] That's about the extent of where I go with my dream patterns. Yeah

[01:02:07] You mentioned dial

[01:02:09] That's something that I've know you've been looking into as well. If you want to

[01:02:12] dive into that

[01:02:14] Yeah, so the dial body mark I received on the summer solstice

[01:02:21] Not this summer but the summer before and

[01:02:24] I personally associated with the red grid mark in that

[01:02:28] CE5 style invitation. I gave explicit permission. I reported it to

[01:02:34] the mark makers

[01:02:36] according to the principle of non-harm for the benefit of

[01:02:40] humanity

[01:02:41] And a number of other guide rails I put on that experience

[01:02:45] But I recorded this invitation and then months later

[01:02:48] I had a series of three dreams that I felt like were visitation dreams

[01:02:54] And they had certain qualities that were different than my normal dreams

[01:02:58] Generally a sense of luminous darkness

[01:03:01] A sense of knowing that their entity is here, but I can't see anything

[01:03:06] It's not like

[01:03:07] It's not like a normal dream where there's visual content. It's just

[01:03:12] Just black, but I know everything about it. I know there's people there

[01:03:16] I can gain information if you ask me what color of robes these people were wearing

[01:03:21] I might be able to tell you or something like that

[01:03:23] But in the experience itself, it's just darkness

[01:03:27] And I had a series of these three dreams

[01:03:31] And on the last one I remember coming back from

[01:03:35] The space

[01:03:36] Uh and being in the presence of a of an entity I would call a guide

[01:03:42] And coming back through

[01:03:45] What I would term to be something like a hypnagogic imagery

[01:03:50] So that's in between waking and sleeping

[01:03:52] The way I perceived it was an endless series of gray hallways

[01:03:57] With many doors and I walked through that and I walked through one of the doorways back into my

[01:04:02] body here and now

[01:04:04] And my

[01:04:07] Intuition said you had an extremely lucid dream. You will not remember this whatsoever

[01:04:13] Do not remember this not important to remember this

[01:04:16] So I didn't record that dream

[01:04:18] And I forgot about it until I went into the sauna. I looked down on my leg. I saw

[01:04:25] Seven dots very regular

[01:04:27] Very small formation

[01:04:30] Um, and it's just had this whole intuition of meaning. I remember the dream

[01:04:35] I I at the same time I was remembering that I said, this is red grid mark

[01:04:39] And I was like no, this is not red grid mark the the dots look different. Um,

[01:04:44] So I I've videoed it. I photoed it. I recorded my feelings around it

[01:04:48] I knew there was some sort of geometric messaging in there

[01:04:52] But I was unable to discern what that was

[01:04:57] And it's sort of like how do you make sense of it? Like how do you

[01:05:00] Figure out is there geometry in here?

[01:05:04] Um, you know, I hadn't done geometry in a while

[01:05:08] So I I didn't I was that I was at a loss as to what to do with it. So

[01:05:14] After photographing it I just moved on with my life until the winter solstice

[01:05:20] Same sort of dream stuff happened these luminous dark spaces

[01:05:24] um and then

[01:05:26] Being scammed to me again dream characters guides whatever they said you want to

[01:05:31] They they said we've been observing you you you're working

[01:05:35] Towards the betterment of humanity. You're you're you're working in service to others

[01:05:41] Uh, we know you want to change how the world is if you work with us will help you we we shape reality

[01:05:48] Um, just follow our instructions and then at the time I thought okay

[01:05:53] Well, I have to meditate more. I was engaged in a variety of practices and I thought okay

[01:05:58] I'll do these sort of magical practices

[01:06:01] Um, actually is what I thought they were asking me to do

[01:06:04] But as an aside the next day I looked at sacred geometry videos on youtube

[01:06:10] Went to bed the next day and they said hey, you know, you did exactly what we asked you you

[01:06:15] Learned about sacred geometry like this is a first for us. Good job. We're building rapport. You're understanding now

[01:06:23] Over the next few weeks do exactly what we say, right?

[01:06:26] Don't add your own spin to it like you normally do do exactly like we said

[01:06:31] Like you did before which was just you watched these sacred geometry videos

[01:06:35] You took the action we wanted just keep doing that and so I learned how to focus

[01:06:41] on

[01:06:42] What they wanted or the interactions there and I was guided through this experience of

[01:06:47] Building learning how mandalas work analyze and crop circles. They had me analyze dozens of red grid mark phenomena

[01:06:55] This is where that that experience is where I gained a lot of insight

[01:07:00] Around the technical nature of the application of the mark. That's where I became convinced

[01:07:06] We can build a model here of the of the technology

[01:07:11] And then

[01:07:12] They had me analyze geometric patterns and uap documentation. So that's

[01:07:17] UFOs flying in formation or UFOs pulsating in

[01:07:23] specific patterns

[01:07:24] And how how to discern those messages

[01:07:28] They had me do ruler and compass geometry on top of that

[01:07:31] To to gain meaning from it and then after all of that it was probably 20 days of very obsessive work

[01:07:38] They said now you're ready to do your body mark get other photos start analyzing it try to build a

[01:07:46] ruler and compass construction of this if you do that then you know it's a mathematical object

[01:07:52] So if I can build a

[01:07:55] Mathematical a geometric object

[01:07:57] Using only the ruler and compass and it's the same

[01:08:00] Form and shape and size of the actual mark then I can know that that

[01:08:07] Body mark is actually a mathematical geometric object that's communicated through

[01:08:13] The physical means of my skin, but it's actually something else than just an artifact of technology

[01:08:21] It's actually a math communication

[01:08:24] um

[01:08:24] So they had me do that and I built a really

[01:08:28] I would say a naive and primitive math construction

[01:08:31] I went left to right with his dots and I said this dot is equal to that dot and the interval between them

[01:08:38] has a very specific proportion to the interval of the whole

[01:08:42] formation

[01:08:44] And smaller dots on the right

[01:08:46] Are in golden ratio proportion to the other dots, which means that's a that's a signifier that

[01:08:52] Whoever made the mark understands beauty and mathematics

[01:08:56] um, and I built that construction

[01:08:59] I

[01:08:59] I

[01:09:01] Applied it a congruent sess meaning I

[01:09:03] Took photos of the mark and I took the ruler and compass construction and it overlaid them on top of each other

[01:09:09] And it was a perfect fit and I go this is it. This is a math communication from that moment on

[01:09:14] I I've been offering services of geometric analysis to bodymark experiencers

[01:09:20] Generally for free. I ask for a donation just because it takes time

[01:09:24] Uh people pay me or not um, and I offer this and

[01:09:28] People like that because they go oh my bodymark actually is geometric

[01:09:33] These are its principles. These are the characteristics of the geometry and it it helps

[01:09:39] People understand that yes, this is indeed intelligent communication in some way shape or form

[01:09:44] Um, so it adds a lot a dimension of meaning to it

[01:09:48] um

[01:09:48] So that was my experience with the bodymark itself

[01:09:52] after

[01:09:54] Discerning the geometry within the bodymark. I said hey, this has got to happen to somebody else. I have to figure out

[01:10:02] if other people have experienced it and I

[01:10:06] immediately found uh

[01:10:09] Two other experiencers that had similar dreams

[01:10:14] That had similar geometry that had the similar

[01:10:19] Qualities that I had it and so at that point I said this is a phenomenon

[01:10:24] Let's let's let's make an acronym dots in a line because that's what I was calling it. So that's the dial mark

[01:10:30] um

[01:10:31] And then since then I've I've analyzed about a dozen marks from people very similar

[01:10:38] phenomena

[01:10:39] Sometimes they're sometimes they're clear marks, but puncture puncture wounds. Sometimes they are big

[01:10:46] Formations sometimes they're small formations, but they always have a sort of linear quality. There's always dots. There's always puncture wounds

[01:10:55] There's sometimes association with entity dreams

[01:10:58] Uh frequently as tall grays

[01:11:01] um

[01:11:02] And again it's associated not with a sense of harm necessarily

[01:11:08] um, there was one experiencer who reported a sense of scratching I

[01:11:14] Associated a memory of the feeling of a tattoo with ease, but this experiencer said it hurt

[01:11:20] um, it felt like a puncture wound and

[01:11:22] But they also attributed miraculous healing of their leg to the the marking

[01:11:28] Um, and they said maybe that's why it was painful because there was a miraculous healing of the nerves in the leg itself

[01:11:35] Uh

[01:11:36] Good with it

[01:11:38] Um, so I've been looking into this mark primarily because I I've experienced it. I believe it's a phenomena

[01:11:46] um

[01:11:47] And that is meaningful associated with dreamlike encounters with uh non-human intelligence

[01:11:52] I believe it is mathematical communication

[01:11:56] Um, and I believe it is actually associated with uap sightings

[01:12:01] The reason why I say this is the geometry associated with the dostinal line

[01:12:06] So if you map that geometry and you draw that like circles on a line

[01:12:12] um, you can do the same thing with uh, the photographs of

[01:12:18] The phoenix lights and I cover this all in in my book missing time found by the way, but uh, the phoenix lights are

[01:12:27] orbs of light

[01:12:29] That are in a geometric formation that you can generally draw a line through and they generally have the same proportions

[01:12:36] and geometric themes as dostinal line. So there's a

[01:12:40] geometric connection between these body mark phenomena and these geometric orb phenomena that everyone has seen

[01:12:46] I mean that that case is very famous

[01:12:49] so, um, I believe there's a connection there i'm sort of

[01:12:54] collecting data in trying to figure out what this actually is

[01:12:58] Um, and how to work with this in a deeper way. So I know I said a lot to that

[01:13:03] I'm curious about where you'd like to go next with this uh, this topic

[01:13:07] When you did the geometry

[01:13:10] I know they say that math is the universal language

[01:13:16] Can you is it possible to decipher?

[01:13:19] what they're actually saying

[01:13:22] by using

[01:13:24] like the

[01:13:25] The designs and everything is there a way that it could be done?

[01:13:29] Like calculated into figuring out what these patterns are actually supposed to mean if they mean anything

[01:13:35] That is a very loaded question. Um, I love this topic. It's a very loaded question and uh, we'll take a step back and talk about how

[01:13:45] math is the universal language and how it can encode meaning

[01:13:49] um one of the

[01:13:52] so

[01:13:53] We have this notion in common culture that

[01:13:56] math is the universal language that may be

[01:13:59] uh used to communicate with ets and generally

[01:14:04] saidy or um the movie

[01:14:07] Contact with jody foster carl stagan

[01:14:10] um

[01:14:11] Kind of exemplifies these ideas saidy is the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. They use radio telescopes to look for messages and sometimes send messages

[01:14:20] using math

[01:14:23] the

[01:14:23] The question is what type of math is universal?

[01:14:28] um, and one of the things i've been paying attention to is

[01:14:33] this quality of

[01:14:35] expert versus not expert

[01:14:37] So we touched in on this earlier right so to understand most of the messaging that the saidy

[01:14:44] Researchers put out you have to be an expert in math. You have to be an expert in science

[01:14:50] In these particularly highly objective forms of science and math that have a lot of assumptions built into them

[01:14:58] um, and generally is is right. So we have this notion that maybe a message might be a pulsation

[01:15:05] uh the contact

[01:15:07] movie shows like repeated

[01:15:09] prime numbers and inside of that wave is a lot of data that then becomes

[01:15:17] uh

[01:15:18] Characters like glyphs or whatever that then can be translated into mathematical or

[01:15:23] uh linguistic

[01:15:25] communications

[01:15:27] That is an abstract understanding of math as the universal language. Um, this is a this is something i'm

[01:15:35] positing or hypothesizing i'm

[01:15:38] gathering research in terms of

[01:15:40] mathematical education and the history of math to support these claims

[01:15:44] But I say that when we think about encoding meaning in math that is an abstraction

[01:15:52] um that requires experts

[01:15:55] But the universal way of working with math is generally geometry

[01:16:00] And so we're thinking about objects in space everyone knows what a line is a dot is a circle is

[01:16:06] and these seem to emerge out of the

[01:16:10] The base level of our consciousness how we perceive space and time is some way

[01:16:16] Indomitly tied with the nature of geometry

[01:16:20] And that's like euclidean geometry. So that's very

[01:16:24] basic

[01:16:25] um, the way we make meaning from that is two fold one is we can just look at the geometry

[01:16:32] And anyone can do that in discern

[01:16:36] feelings

[01:16:37] aesthetic values

[01:16:39] So there's there's there's beauty associated with the geometry

[01:16:43] Feelings associated with it the things you think about it are actually a communication and are actually one dimension of meaning of this

[01:16:51] math as a universal language

[01:16:53] so anyone

[01:16:55] The non expert who's never done geometry can look at the

[01:16:59] Dacian line body mark or red grid mark and go. Oh, okay

[01:17:02] There's meaning coming off of it and that comes through primarily your intuition

[01:17:07] Like we were talking about translating that intuition into an objective statement requires sophistication and

[01:17:15] abstraction but that base level of direct apprehension of

[01:17:21] The the direct intuition you experience while looking at this geometry is a communication that I would argue is

[01:17:28] as meaningful as the encoded message

[01:17:31] um, and one the there's two precedents I used to substantiate that claim one is

[01:17:38] Carl Jung's work with mandalas an active imagination

[01:17:42] And the other is the tibetan buddhist practice of using mandalas as a domain for

[01:17:49] essentially telepathic

[01:17:51] Encounters with divinity right so they they have these mandalas. There's a buddha inside of it or uh,

[01:17:58] Spirit you meditate on that and then that buddha or spirit sort of teaches you things and it happens in a very imaginative or

[01:18:06] intuitive way, but that's actually something that religion

[01:18:11] Has been based on so we have these two examples that

[01:18:15] actual geometry can lead to direct

[01:18:18] mind-to-mind interaction with

[01:18:22] Beings that at least exist in the collective unconscious that

[01:18:26] Exists outside of your personal unconscious

[01:18:29] So at that level you know right now can look at the dachshund line or a red grid mark

[01:18:35] And maybe imagine work with a little bit of the geometry to relate it back to the circle

[01:18:41] That's the really what i'm doing with applying this geometry

[01:18:46] If it's related to the circle, then it's related to a mandala if it's related to a mandala

[01:18:51] Then you can have an imaginative and intuitive interaction with

[01:18:55] something that is

[01:18:57] Is communicative in real at least that collective unconscious level so that's one side of it

[01:19:04] um

[01:19:05] The next step is actually figuring out do these things encode meaning in terms of messages

[01:19:12] In terms of math or not and so

[01:19:14] um, there's

[01:19:17] There's two things I would respond to

[01:19:20] What is the dachshund line in these uap geometries actually do seem

[01:19:26] To communicate mathematical insights

[01:19:29] And so I would put forward the work of jimmy blanchett who works with radio communications and he receives

[01:19:37] UAP manifestations that kind of instruct him on geometry

[01:19:42] He are on the mathematical nature of the universe and there's actually

[01:19:47] Communications coming through about the nature of mathematics through the geometry that I'm seeing

[01:19:53] He's analyzing his geometry using math

[01:19:57] Using number and i'm doing it through geometry and we're

[01:20:01] Synchronistically collaborating

[01:20:04] So I believe he's actually receiving the same types of communications. I am through the dots in a line

[01:20:10] He's seeing it through

[01:20:11] UFO videos, but we're saying the same things in different mathematical languages

[01:20:17] So there's this whole body of math that's coming through that has to do with

[01:20:23] How the universe works and it has to do with the mathematical nature of the universe

[01:20:29] And for his messaging it's bringing all of our

[01:20:33] mathematical and physical constants

[01:20:36] into a

[01:20:37] geometric

[01:20:38] Harmonic system where everything makes sense. It's like why why is a mile?

[01:20:43] 5,000 feet or whatever and if you if you start getting the right units you start to see that

[01:20:52] Things are

[01:20:54] Implied by the geometry of the universe in a very regular way that isn't

[01:20:59] elucidated by

[01:21:01] The strange physical constants that we have now in the in terms of our our unit system

[01:21:06] So that's what he's getting

[01:21:09] I I also have the hypothesis

[01:21:12] Um, and i'm working with that now to see about encoded meaning. So that's like binary code

[01:21:18] Or other codes in these phenomena. That's one of the hypothesis I have

[01:21:24] um looking into after applying them

[01:21:28] Ruler and compass geometry to the uap's and the dot in a line

[01:21:32] I notice these very strange deviations from geometric pattern. So I can apply the same geometric pattern to

[01:21:40] uh multiple photos of uap's and dot in a line and

[01:21:45] The same framework will touch each of the dots on dot in a line in different ways

[01:21:51] or uap's and the dots will be

[01:21:55] Directly above or directly below or directly left or right

[01:21:59] Or one or two dots away from these places of geometric coherence

[01:22:04] Which signifies to me a sense of deviation from a form which then

[01:22:10] Says hey, this is a one or a zero in binary to me

[01:22:13] I I think it's actually that something like binary code but with multiple

[01:22:18] um

[01:22:19] Not just binary. It's something like hexadecimal or something like that

[01:22:24] Again, this takes time to research. I I've looked through

[01:22:28] Maybe a dozen examples of this geometry. I've discerned there is a pattern

[01:22:35] I can eat probably a 10 times more

[01:22:40] Data to even discern what that pattern or how that encoding system works

[01:22:45] Um, so once again a long answer to uh a very simple question

[01:22:50] I was just thinking like

[01:22:53] And I don't know the year I know it's back. I believe in the 1980s. It was over in England

[01:22:57] It was one of the us bases or whatever's when they chased this ufo through the woods supposedly

[01:23:03] and they claim when they got to the craft there's a bunch of

[01:23:06] Patterns and like stuff that they could see when they did in the guy in the bright in the mouth. I believe

[01:23:12] He was one of the military guys

[01:23:15] And it's like you said it's almost like binary code

[01:23:19] and

[01:23:20] There's a bunch of markings and stuff all over

[01:23:23] They almost said like higher high reg lists or whatever type designs on this craft because they were it was small

[01:23:30] they were able to touch it

[01:23:31] I've heard different variations of this story

[01:23:34] and

[01:23:36] The last I knew they had these binary codes and they were trying to crack whatever the code was

[01:23:41] For what they had saw when they touched this thing

[01:23:44] And this was again back in the 80s. So I thought it was weird that

[01:23:48] If it was using numbers and like a binary type system

[01:23:53] Maybe this is something to do that like

[01:23:56] What's what people are having now like you're trying to figure out like with geometry and everything else

[01:24:01] Maybe there's a certain pattern to all this that interconnects it

[01:24:06] Yeah, that I believe that encounter was the rendoshim like forest

[01:24:12] encounter someone did they had experience with a UFO they did see glyphs and then

[01:24:18] one of the experiencers

[01:24:20] kind of

[01:24:21] Says they they went into trance and then wrote ones and zeros and forgot about it for about a decade or whatever and then

[01:24:29] Had some scientists

[01:24:31] decoded this these ones and zeros into

[01:24:36] A message that had geographic

[01:24:39] locations in them and

[01:24:41] Again, jimmy blanchett's been looking into that that message

[01:24:45] And been using the geographic placements to they he's actually seeing the same geometries

[01:24:51] He's seeing in the uap's which are highly similar to the geometries and geometric messaging

[01:24:57] I'm seeing he's seeing that in the

[01:24:59] placement of these

[01:25:00] geographical locations when he uses

[01:25:04] The nautical mile as the unit the nautical mile is not like a kilometer. It's not like um

[01:25:11] Like our imperial mile we have in the states. It's based on

[01:25:16] um

[01:25:18] Spherical geometry is based on division of uh the sphere into degrees

[01:25:23] And so there's a high degree of like geometry in it

[01:25:27] So when you apply those you you start to see these patterns emerge

[01:25:32] Um

[01:25:33] And you apply that to the same to the geographic placements in the rendelship message. That's what he's seeing so that it is a it is a big pattern

[01:25:43] um

[01:25:44] I often think about I mean I personally got into this experience

[01:25:49] With the prejudice against binary or encoded messages. I said there's personally, I thought you know, there there can't be I mean, it's just so

[01:25:59] Strange to think that et's were communicate or non-human intelligences would communicate through binary that we could then interpret

[01:26:07] um

[01:26:07] And I and I I became convinced it was the direct mind-to-mind communication through the mandala type

[01:26:15] Uh through this kind of beautiful geometry like you have an experience looking at the geometry

[01:26:20] It's it's an artistic

[01:26:23] Spiritual experience like responding to it. It's emotional. It changes you but there's no real encoded message in there

[01:26:30] But I'm actually now seeing that

[01:26:33] um

[01:26:34] et and hi communications oftentimes have

[01:26:39] As many dimensions of meaning as you can pack in there

[01:26:42] I mean meaning that they're fractal. They're efficient in their communications

[01:26:47] So why wouldn't a communication be personally meaningful transpersonally meaningful?

[01:26:52] meaningful at

[01:26:53] raw geometry and meaningful in terms of its encoded message

[01:26:57] uh the

[01:26:59] Message I would put forward uh that I'm working with in terms of my mission here

[01:27:05] um is that

[01:27:07] You can start with the dimension of meaning that makes sense to you right

[01:27:12] We don't need to decode these messages to start working with and making sense of it

[01:27:18] Often these times these messages have a quality of mystery to them that feel like they'll never be solved

[01:27:25] but the

[01:27:26] Experience I have is working even with the emotional response to some of the messages

[01:27:31] Even contemplating how strange it is just exposing oneself to these

[01:27:37] anomalous

[01:27:39] Experiences is meaningful

[01:27:42] um and just as meaningful as perhaps decoding a message

[01:27:48] I think with

[01:27:50] this topic in general

[01:27:53] I think to be honest like

[01:27:56] It's hard to fathom

[01:27:58] how everyone is

[01:28:00] Having these and like we talked earlier a lot of people might not even notice

[01:28:06] there's a reason for it and

[01:28:08] The fact that again, I go back to no one's even really

[01:28:13] actively

[01:28:15] mainstream wise talking about this

[01:28:18] There has to be an intelligence behind it if you can rule out some of the

[01:28:23] patterns from someone leaning on something

[01:28:27] For every one of those that are ruled out. There's still some that you can't explain

[01:28:30] And there's some sort of physical intelligence behind it

[01:28:34] What the designs and the patterns and everything else and even now you're with your geometry and everything

[01:28:41] I don't know how

[01:28:43] to get anything

[01:28:44] Rolling far as people in the mainstream to take this seriously. I've mentioned it before on another episode with it. That was a

[01:28:52] Doing a podcast with a

[01:28:55] A bigger podcast

[01:28:57] And I brought that up. They never heard of it before and they looked into it while we were on the episode

[01:29:02] And I expected them to eventually like do their own episode on and they've never have

[01:29:06] So it's like even other podcasters. I only know of one other podcast that I've been talking to recently

[01:29:12] That have actually even had an episode whether they actually interviewed Justin for I ever did

[01:29:17] and

[01:29:18] We've talked about maybe working together and doing a

[01:29:22] updated podcast for that too just to uh

[01:29:26] try and

[01:29:28] Bring more attention to it. But at the same time, there's not a whole lot of new information

[01:29:32] to put out there

[01:29:34] Because there's just not a whole lot like you're one of the first people that I know is actually

[01:29:38] researching into the whole phenomena

[01:29:41] Yeah, I mean this is

[01:29:43] self-restraining to me because I'm convinced right we can we can analyze especially the red grid mark

[01:29:50] Uh, we could deduce how many different technical intelligences and how many different designers of those

[01:29:57] marks there are

[01:29:59] I mean, there are clear

[01:30:02] Kind of flourishes that you associate with artistry right like there. There's clearly

[01:30:08] Technical applications

[01:30:09] There's some people on the other side making the mark that are good at it

[01:30:13] And some people that are bad at it

[01:30:16] You know, you can see who they're interacting with and it's like the same guys making the same typo mark here as over there

[01:30:23] basically and

[01:30:24] to have that level of

[01:30:27] um

[01:30:29] Capacity and insight into this strange phenomena that will clearly lead us to some level of inter

[01:30:36] Dimensional advanced technology like that's the conclusion you like I have to come to

[01:30:41] Um, why we're not studying this and why we're still just talking about whether or not UAPs are real or whether or not

[01:30:48] This phenomenon real is is very frustrating to me

[01:30:52] But I mean it's something that we have to be patient with

[01:30:55] And I think a lot about this too about the response of the mainstream

[01:31:00] About how everyone might really be having these experiences

[01:31:04] Um, I put forward in my book

[01:31:06] Missing time found that all of these experiences the primary precedent for et

[01:31:13] an nhi contact is a dream experience actually and uh, the reason why I talk about this

[01:31:22] um, and I'm talking about this now is

[01:31:24] That I believe that the way we treat dreams is the way we're treating et anhi contact

[01:31:32] um, and

[01:31:33] That we in the west and especially western science for the last only 300 years

[01:31:39] Have had a strong bias against dreams as being

[01:31:44] Real or meaningful. We say no no no they're they're just

[01:31:48] Fantasies of the mind that are meaningless and if they are meaningful, they're simply wish fulfillment like Freud says

[01:31:55] um

[01:31:57] And we don't have as a culture

[01:32:00] We've been sort of trained away from working with our dreams and we've been trained away from the awareness that we are

[01:32:09] each

[01:32:10] powerful

[01:32:11] beings in the dream world with the capacity to

[01:32:16] Both navigate and negotiate our collective fortune

[01:32:20] Through this sort of mediating relationships with non-human intelligences

[01:32:25] In traditional dreaming cultures the non-human intelligences include the wisdom of the earth

[01:32:31] Include the wisdom of the ancestors

[01:32:34] Include, you know, like the voice of the forest and the voice of the forest will tell you where to find food

[01:32:40] Where to avoid danger that sort of thing and they also talk to non-human intelligences like we might imagine

[01:32:49] Aliens and things like that. So we in the west western science, we we don't even know how to relate to our closest neighbors

[01:32:57] Uh, like the the wisdom of the forest and mother earth that sort of think through the dreams

[01:33:03] So how could we even imagine working with something so exotic as?

[01:33:08] These phenomena and yet it seems that these things are real and want us to communicate

[01:33:13] That's the conclusion I have with uh, the body mark phenomenon. They're inviting us and they're saying hey

[01:33:19] Don't forget to work with us. Don't forget to work with these dreamlike ways of knowing

[01:33:25] um

[01:33:26] And they're re inviting us to that conversation. That's in part why I think the there's so much mystery associated with like the cryptids or the

[01:33:34] UAPs is there's there's a a hook in there to draw us in and to expand us from this very limited worldview

[01:33:42] to one where we see ourselves as

[01:33:46] equal participants in this

[01:33:49] unfolding relationship between humanity and the non-human intelligences

[01:33:53] Um, and I think we feel disempowered. I think we feel alienated in those experiences because we've not been trained

[01:34:01] We're not even aware that these things are possible

[01:34:04] um primarily because of western the history of western science and and in

[01:34:09] Really diving deep into the objective material reality around us

[01:34:15] You'd mention the UAPs and cryptids and the dimensions and everything that's the route that I've actually dove down into

[01:34:22] recently a lot because

[01:34:26] completely off topic but

[01:34:29] When I've interviewed other people have had these experiences or whatever with what they believe to be cryptids or even with extra terrestrials

[01:34:38] I'm not even 100 sure that the extra terrestrials are actually from space anymore. I think that

[01:34:46] they're more interdimensional and

[01:34:49] That's how I feel with a lot of these

[01:34:52] Encounters with what people believe or some sort of cryptids or whatever and I think it could all go back into the same

[01:35:00] type of

[01:35:01] Entity in itself like even with the spirit realm

[01:35:05] I think there's something

[01:35:06] On the other side that we bleed into I know people see shadow people

[01:35:11] What if that's just another person but they're just on that different spectrum than what we are

[01:35:16] They're on that other realm and they're bleeding into our world

[01:35:20] Same thing like it's able to go same thing with these people say big foot then all of a sudden it just disappears into these lights in the skies and

[01:35:28] It almost to me sounds like it's not so much

[01:35:32] From outer space. It's more or less from a different dimension that we just can't see into

[01:35:38] And we just see bits and pieces when they interact with us

[01:35:43] Yes, I would I would tend to agree with that

[01:35:47] The the notion that these beings have flowing through space

[01:35:52] From different planets to interact with us

[01:35:56] Does it I mean joc valet in his in his books like dimension or passport to mcgonia really ask the question like how can it be that

[01:36:05] space travelers can fly light years and mess up a surgery so bad

[01:36:11] That you know, we we marks on the body as a hypnotist

[01:36:15] I often think about this because most of the time people say missing time

[01:36:19] Or the fact that we don't remember these experiences is caused by

[01:36:25] Either alien mind control or their traumatic events that we're repressing if it's alien mind control

[01:36:31] Like if the aliens are actually controlling our mind, why can I as a hypnotist?

[01:36:37] You know in the 20th century like

[01:36:40] We're still using cars and fossil fuels. We still don't know exactly how the brain works

[01:36:45] Like how can I counteract these the the advanced technology of alien mind control and my conclusion is

[01:36:52] If it were the case that I was working with alien mind control

[01:36:57] from such advanced civilizations, I would not be able to

[01:37:01] support

[01:37:02] Experiencers to

[01:37:04] remember their experiences

[01:37:06] um

[01:37:07] I put for the notion that the we don't remember these experiences for the same exact reason

[01:37:13] We don't remember our REM dreaming every night

[01:37:17] um, and I say that because

[01:37:20] Uh rem dreams have fantastic beings impossible physics and things like that

[01:37:25] Um likewise, uh rem dream is associated with sleep paralysis alien abduction is associated with sleep paralysis

[01:37:32] Most of UFO sightings are seen around those times too. So um something is happening in terms of the bleed over of dimensions

[01:37:41] In association with the dreaming mind. That's what I would hypothesize here. Um

[01:37:47] Interestingly this whole notion of are they

[01:37:51] Physically real in the way they appear or is there a deeper reality there?

[01:37:56] people have had this conversation for

[01:38:01] Centuries almost millennia. I the earliest example of this kind of question I found in

[01:38:09] Talk in in the neoplatonic

[01:38:11] Philosophy, so that's late antiquity. That's like uh three to five hundred ad

[01:38:19] People were talking about

[01:38:21] Uh god visitations. So like the ancient greek gods particularly the um the goddess sklepius who is

[01:38:30] Described as a shape-shifting reptilian being who lives in the sky

[01:38:34] Right, some people were like oh this shape-shifting reptilian visited me in my dream space and it felt really real

[01:38:40] And other people were like well, we think that that might be the case

[01:38:44] But we also think that this may be a representation of a formless consciousness

[01:38:49] And you're just applying the forms of greek philosophy or greek mythology to this formless

[01:38:56] Daemon or angelic being uh, and it might be something else

[01:39:01] And so there has been this dialogue around whether the forms we perceive of these non-human intelligences are actually that

[01:39:08] Or are they simply just projections or kind of cloaks that these formless beings?

[01:39:15] where

[01:39:16] um when they visit us um and

[01:39:19] My conclusion, I don't have a conclusion but sort of both is how I interact with it

[01:39:27] You know

[01:39:29] I don't

[01:39:30] I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on certain topics because

[01:39:35] I've seen stuff

[01:39:37] I can't explain it. I know other people see things they can't explain it

[01:39:41] I've actually interviewed someone last year. I've reached out to them again

[01:39:47] And you'd mentioned something earlier

[01:39:50] About when you had your dreams and they were

[01:39:54] He was

[01:39:56] He believes to be have been abducted and they were showing him things as well and he's also a doctor. He's from greece

[01:40:03] and

[01:40:05] He actually has had people send him stuff that they found in their body like an implants or whatever and and

[01:40:11] He was able to confirm that the material from this

[01:40:17] crashed

[01:40:18] Little orb they found

[01:40:19] He had some of it sent to him and in the patterns to this

[01:40:23] That was actually in someone's foot. I believe it was

[01:40:28] It's basically

[01:40:30] intelligently made like it's almost like the same type of materials

[01:40:34] and

[01:40:35] It was like the first conclusive things from that he could prove

[01:40:39] that these implants for they had like these little uh

[01:40:44] It's been over a year since I've talked to him but it's they had these uh

[01:40:49] Under a microscope or everything had like these little channels and everything almost like a your blood flow system

[01:40:53] Like your arteries and everything else and this little tiny

[01:40:57] microscopic thing

[01:40:59] And to me it seems like it's highly intelligently made now

[01:41:03] What it is like I couldn't tell you there was he listed what the materials were and everything

[01:41:08] but

[01:41:10] I've actually reached out to him a little bit ago to see if there's been any updates because like I said it's been over a year

[01:41:16] I'm curious to see if he's found anything else or if anyone else has ever sent him anything based off of

[01:41:21] the interview that we had

[01:41:23] because uh

[01:41:25] That's the other thing like

[01:41:27] I talked to him before I even heard of what the red grid mark pattern was

[01:41:31] Here a red grid mark phenomenon and

[01:41:37] now

[01:41:39] If there's different

[01:41:41] Entities that are implanting different types of materials into people and there's other ones that are putting

[01:41:46] These patterns on people

[01:41:48] Again, it goes back to that old age old question. Why are they doing it? I know you don't have an answer

[01:41:52] I don't know one really does but

[01:41:54] It's just weird that there's certain different aspects that people are experiencing

[01:42:01] Yes, um

[01:42:02] I just listened to that podcast actually and was going to reach out to him

[01:42:07] Later today as well, uh not because of uh like

[01:42:11] Implant experience. I'm always interested in that. I've never experienced anything like that never seen anything

[01:42:16] but because of his connect the connecting of the

[01:42:21] implants

[01:42:23] Elements like the profile of elements or whatever with stuff that that's from a uap and I see that the

[01:42:29] The geometric themes that I've discerned in the Dachshund line body mark being

[01:42:35] Listeratively exactly the same geometries of the phoenix lights

[01:42:39] Uh indicates to me that there is a

[01:42:42] Strong connection, right? It's not it's not like there are lights in the sky

[01:42:47] Uh and these are alien vessels or something like that. There's some sort of intimate connection with our bodies

[01:42:55] And these craft and that's sort of what it sounds like when they are

[01:43:00] intelligently designing like these craft that have the same material here

[01:43:04] I mean, I've heard similar things around like channels within advanced

[01:43:09] materials being

[01:43:10] Indicatory of

[01:43:11] a uap prep materials that sort of thing. So

[01:43:15] It what the what he found very much aligns with the other whisperings I hear about reverse engineered technology

[01:43:23] Uh or like the reverse engineering

[01:43:25] insights that have emerged

[01:43:28] We can actually uh based on the

[01:43:32] The connection between

[01:43:34] These experiences and dreams. I would say we do have the capacity to understand why

[01:43:41] At least in one dimension of meaning

[01:43:43] So like I said, there's many dimensions of meaning subjective and objective personal and transpersonal

[01:43:49] We can look to the history of

[01:43:52] mathematics and

[01:43:53] Uh philosophy right and we can see

[01:43:57] There has been interactions with

[01:44:02] mathematicians

[01:44:02] political people with entities that may be similar to the entities we're talking about

[01:44:09] Uh through dreams or dreamlike experiences that are similar to the experiences. We're talking about throughout history and they generally bring

[01:44:18] uh creative

[01:44:20] insights regarding science math philosophy technology

[01:44:24] Uh Socrates is the father of western philosophy basically and he had

[01:44:29] Psychedelic experiences in which he talked to a non-human intelligence who would tell him things

[01:44:34] um same thing with Descartes where we get a lot of our

[01:44:40] understanding of like uh

[01:44:43] The scientific method and also how we how we think about geometry now. He actually was inspired by a series of three dreams

[01:44:51] Um and there is there's this constant history of interaction between math and science

[01:44:57] And these round human intelligences that we think oh, whatever the scientists are just

[01:45:02] Going to sleep and having dreams and and imagining that they're talking to entities like tesla as a great example

[01:45:10] um

[01:45:12] Or actually we could take their take them at their word and go hey, they have these encounters and these

[01:45:18] Encounters seem to be moving forward science and uh culture

[01:45:23] And that's one of the reasons that's that's not a satisfying reason as to why they're interacting with us

[01:45:29] But that's one of the deductions we can make. Um, I believe since looking at this phenomenon in general

[01:45:36] now

[01:45:38] Well, we're getting close to that two hour mark

[01:45:42] So I don't know if there's any other things you want to

[01:45:45] Jump into

[01:45:47] before we

[01:45:48] Try and wrap this one up. I know we talked a bit about a little bit of everything

[01:45:51] But I know you do uh, you have your own website and everything's if you want to talk a little bit about it

[01:45:57] Yeah, I'll I'll talk about um how people can connect with me and my research. Um, again

[01:46:03] It's sort of I I work with a variety of different people

[01:46:06] Experiasters of the experiences of missing time et contact strange dreams psychic phenomena

[01:46:13] We do dream work in hypnosis

[01:46:16] The hypnosis I offer

[01:46:18] Is in alignment with my theory is that hypnosis is actually shamanic dream work

[01:46:23] So, uh, I'll talk a lot about that about how regression hypnosis is a means of knowledge

[01:46:29] But it is not a means of objective knowledge

[01:46:31] Nor a means of historic testimony. So this resolves a bit of the controversies around regression hypnosis

[01:46:39] particularly that emerged in the 90s

[01:46:42] Called the memory wars a controversy or false memories

[01:46:45] Um, so we say hey it's a dreamlike experience

[01:46:49] You can understand the reverse of this these experiences like dreams

[01:46:53] Um, and that's how I work with people. Um, I offer all of my work by uh donation

[01:46:59] So that's like after the fact for the sessions people donate for it

[01:47:04] I have all of the material on website. That's d sedi.org

[01:47:08] d s e t i dot org

[01:47:12] That stands for the dream search or study of extraterrestrial intelligence

[01:47:16] I've got a couple of books on amazon

[01:47:19] You can get there uh to through the website. Um, and most recently put out

[01:47:25] Uh, a lot of three case studies about red grid mark phenomena

[01:47:29] And several case studies about the docentaline phenomena the uap studies that's in my book missing time found

[01:47:36] Don't worry. It's just a dream

[01:47:38] Again available on my website or amazon via the links on the website

[01:47:43] So that's the best way to get in contact with me if you're interested in

[01:47:47] geometric analysis of the body marks, I would really appreciate I love working with that

[01:47:53] That's one of the things that the other side has told me to do is just is offer this as a service

[01:47:58] Someone has a mark is in part my responsibility to offer the service of geometric analysis

[01:48:05] I say hey, this is the geometry. I see this is I don't see geometry

[01:48:09] It's not a definitive response

[01:48:11] It's a step in an inquiry that the experiencer has but it provides some

[01:48:16] Understanding or some some ways to sink the teeth in so those are the best way

[01:48:21] That's the best way to get in contact with me is through d sedi.org

[01:48:26] I'll make sure I include that the show notes for anyone out there listening that wants to

[01:48:29] get in contact with daniel

[01:48:32] but

[01:48:34] I do want to say this has been a very enlightening conversation

[01:48:37] I hope everyone listening in has enjoyed this because I believe

[01:48:41] This is definitely a topic that needs to be more upfront and out there for people to research and look into and

[01:48:50] as we've said several times mainstream media does not tend to

[01:48:55] Look at it and neither do the scientists for some reason

[01:49:00] But hopefully with more episodes and more

[01:49:03] dealings with it and more people coming forward will eventually

[01:49:07] Help blow the lid off but till then

[01:49:10] We'll just keep chugging along I guess

[01:49:14] Yep, that's how it works. Well, thank you for having me and it's been a pleasure to talk to you and I appreciate

[01:49:21] The space you're holding for experiencers to share their stories. That was one of the things that

[01:49:26] Really impressed me about your podcast is your quality of listening

[01:49:32] And your lack of judgment as to whether or not these things are real

[01:49:35] I think that is actually the perspective we need to bring to this subject matters. These are meaningful

[01:49:41] These are impactful. Let's just listen

[01:49:43] Uh, so thank you for bringing that presence to the world

[01:49:47] and not a problem. I um

[01:49:49] I've always said i'm just here to give a platform for everyone else to share their experiences

[01:49:54] So that's why I do it

[01:49:57] Wonderful

[01:49:58] Well again, Daniel, I definitely appreciate you coming on here today and talking with me and spend my pleasure

[01:50:03] Thank you. Me too

[01:50:05] You have a good one. You ship

[01:50:14] Remember the truth lies in the stories we share the connections we make stay curious stay open minded

[01:50:20] Thank you all for joining us on this journey and until next time

[01:50:23] Keep questioning keep seeking and keep exploring the unknown. Good night everyone