Ep. 65: Phantom Time Conspiracy

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[00:05:21] One of the host of underworld news tonight. We do a bit of a weird and wacky and wild look

[00:05:25] at the news of the week,

[00:05:26] looking at a bit of the supernatural,

[00:05:27] a bit of the conspiracy theory stuff.

[00:05:29] So if you're a fan of Morning Zoo Radio,

[00:05:31] that sort of a thing,

[00:05:32] and wanna kinda capture the spirit of it,

[00:05:34] we would highly recommend you check that out.

[00:05:36] But you know what?

[00:05:37] I'm not here to talk about my own show today, Brandon.

[00:05:41] What do you got for us?

[00:05:43] Well, Brandon, I guess Prophet Muhammad along with the Muslim conquest of, wacky, wild looks of time. He starts out by becoming active in an eccentric historical association called the... excuse me, I've got to brush up on my German, the class I took in college

[00:08:22] because it was the only language requirement class that was after 9am. Sorry, it was called And correct me if I'm overstepping here that in any culture with water You're either gonna have a problem of there being too much or too little of it at some point Is that fair to say is kind of a counter argument? Yeah, I've always thought the flood stories are more or less from when the ice age ended, but that's just my own theory. I Think everywhere has floods for a variety of reasons, you know, I've experienced floods in New Jersey

[00:09:42] I've experienced I grew up in New Jersey if you can't tell from the accent. I live in Illinois. I experienced a flood here once and call it things that happen. But I do think it's important to note this, not because Velikovsky's theories are particularly important, but because it highlights his propensity to search for different weird and wacky parallels when he looks at history, and how that then informs what he comes up with later on. In the case of Velikovsky, this can be found with an obsession between similarities

[00:11:00] between the biblical flood, the Epic of Gilgamesh,

[00:11:02] the drowning of Atlantis,

[00:11:04] and imagined planatized meteorites

[00:11:05] that are heading towards the Earth causing axial change. for Ileg's ideas because while he's been slammed by the historical and academic establishment, his work just happens to draw a lot of media and popular fascination there. Now, as I mentioned, Herbert Ileg and believers in the Phantom Time hypothesis believe that 297 years were added to history by the Holy Roman Emperor Otto III, the future pope Sylvester II, and possibly the Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII. So the question that comes to mind then is why?

[00:13:24] anointed ruler on earth was thereby mere coincidence. A historical ruler must be created to serve

[00:13:26] as a mythical predecessor to Otto and his dynasty,

[00:13:28] simultaneously mirroring the emperor

[00:13:30] and modeling the type of ruler he wished to be.

[00:13:33] And that ruler was Charlemagne.

[00:13:36] Now for the uninitiated on the history

[00:13:38] of the Holy Roman Empire,

[00:13:40] Charlemagne was king of the Franks

[00:13:41] and a member of the Carolinian dynasty,

[00:13:43] crowned emperor of the Romans by Pope Leo III

[00:13:45] in the year 800.

[00:13:47] Over the course of a bastard duke overthrowing his fat and widely disliked uncle.

[00:15:00] If you want to know more about it, you can watch a great documentary that airs. be held at the Aachen Cathedral, where Charlemagne himself took the same title.

[00:16:23] Because of this, one could say that the life of Otto I was in part an attempt to emulate the life of Charlemagne. legacy and some auspicious timing, this is some of come off with somewhat sacrilegious and delegitimizing. If you look at this conspiracy theory, I think this is kind of the piece that I find most interesting about it, because if you accept this conspiracy theory is true, and if you can't tell from the of truth by James Tynion IV. But as amazing as that comic is, it's also not what you brought me on to talk about today. Because now that we have a solid understanding, or at least as solid as we can, of why the Holy Roman Emperor would want to fake hundreds of years of history, including the existence

[00:19:01] of Charlemagne, it's going to be important to explore the evidence that so much of European

[00:19:05] history was faked. In general, I think that the reason for this is that a lot of conspiracy theorists, they're trying to imitate what they think a government document is like. And that stuff is genuinely really boring. But they're also trying to build this massive web of connections and dense content and ideas that you kind of can get into a hypnotic rhythm.

[00:20:23] Both of these kind of require an artifice year. We can't have a quarter of a day, so every four years it adds up to a full day. We do that. The whole thing doesn't fall into chaos. Makes sense, other than the fact that this is an estimation and not entirely accurate. The rotation is actually 0.00781 you know, just to kind of sum this up, we have a leap year every four years, except for three out of every 400 years on the 100 year mark, which we didn't do in 2000, which is why you don't know about it, because you're never gonna have to fucking deal with it. Now, the Julian calendar, which came before the Gregorian calendar,

[00:23:01] it did not account for any of this.

[00:23:05] What this essentially means,

[00:23:06] and we could do all sorts of math here and there, After all, how would all of these disconnected barbarians and kingdoms have the same pan-European architectural style? And yet, buildings such as the Sayabe in France, Maria Locke Abbey in Germany, Charlemagne's own Palatine, Tappel, and Aachen demonstrate the reverberation of Romanesque architecture hundreds of years after the fall of Rome. Creating a pan-European style at a time when these lands shouldn't have been connected.

[00:24:23] At least if you trust so-called historians who you should know is that the Fandom Time hypothesis, a large part of it is just pointing to the well-established science of dendrochronology, saying it's fake, and saying every other academic field is desperately tied to dendrochronology in a way that

[00:25:42] is truly inescapable.

[00:25:45] Take from that as you will.

[00:25:47] Now, these are far from the only proofs something that's pretty well established. All sorts of tales of saints and miracles were fabricated. But then pointing to a lecture by Horace Furman, president of the Monumenta Germani Historica, Dr. Nemez claims that Furman argued that the medieval Catholic Church's most successful fakes

[00:27:00] had a sort of anticipatory character,

[00:27:02] that they came at a time that would allow them

[00:27:04] to wait for their own time to come.

[00:27:07] In other words, it wouldn't necessarily work but the level authority granted by that position has increased drastically and Changed drastically over the centuries During the so-called phantom time the papacy granted a drastic amount of civil authority And perhaps the most notable figure associated with this transition came prior to that in Gregory the first

[00:28:24] Now the son of Roman senator who himself served as the prefect of Rome in 300 AD

[00:28:29] Gregory's political background made him a force to be reckoned with in the story of Charlemagne kind of creates a historical three-act structure around that to make what's happening with Otto seem fully justified. And this is to say nothing of the Crusades. You have the rise of Islam throughout the Arabian Peninsula, the Muslim conquest of Iberia, and this demanding a strong militant and centralized church in response.

[00:29:42] That is, if all of innovation introduced of the Council.

[00:31:00] And perhaps the more societally significant one

[00:31:03] was the decision to calculate the date of Easter

[00:31:05] independently of the Hebrew calendar.

[00:31:07] Now this became somewhat of a huge controversy Now, when I initially researched for this, which we talked about on our conspiracy special, this is where I was going to end it. But, believe it or not, this is not the only abjectly fucking insane calendar conspiracy theory that I've found over the course of the last few months. Now, I don't know if this is something that, Brandon, you find yourself

[00:32:23] talking about on this show a lot. It's something that I call STEM brain. Do you ever talk about Now, if you think Iliks missing 300 years are a bit much, this comes from a history from a mathematician called Anatole Oy Timofibish Vomenko. And it's genuinely one of the most fucking insane things I've ever heard of. Within the new chronology, it's less about a missing gap in time, so much as time acting as a sort of weird fucking accordion, where in Greek, Roman and Egyptian history all fold into the Middle Ages,

[00:33:43] like an confusing time Papa John's Pazone,

[00:33:46] with the so-called which we know as Rome. This is actually the least important Rome, founded in 1380 by the mythical Trojan hero Ineas. The second Rome, known as the New Rome, is actually Constantinople.

[00:35:01] This is also the city that we know asists on the internet, but they aren't the only people to believe them.

[00:36:22] Because perhaps the most notable believer in the theory, who played, I Don't think it really affects anything does it? Well, I think that's what I find interesting about this stuff is that you have the two versions of the theory You have the fandom time the first version about the Holy Roman Empire and I'd consider that fairly armless It's a fairly typical anti-catholic conspiracy theory, but it's against like the medieval Catholic Church, which I don't think is particularly relevant

[00:38:44] concept of what year it is, that's what I was getting at. It basically doesn't really matter what we say that year is. It's all based off of what some jackass decided to say whatever year it

[00:38:48] was. So at the end of the day, like if it's 2345 or actually 1822, like it doesn't really matter.

[00:39:00] At the end of the day, like we're only going by what someone else deemed it would to be anyways.

[00:40:04] When you claim something didn't happen, you could kind of fill in the blanks

[00:40:05] to what you want to have happen there.

[00:40:07] So I'd say that this theory becomes very malleable

[00:40:09] to kind of like, why did they do it?

[00:40:11] Well, what did they make up?

[00:40:12] What actually happened?

[00:40:14] You can kind of choose your own adventure.

[00:40:16] Which I think the best, you know,

[00:40:17] kind of the most successful conspiracy theory branding,

[00:40:20] it's all about letting people fill in the blanks

[00:40:24] and put in their own flavor of choice.

[00:41:24] with our classic fries. Price and participation may vary, cannot be combined with any other offer.

[00:41:33] When it comes to conspiracies, and this is where the name for the podcast was derived from, obviously, tinfoil hat. I've never looked at them as the sense of just looking at conspiracies to

[00:41:42] see conspiracies, like the things that I'd it's not like, you know, I think now we live in a democracy

[00:43:01] and we're looking at who's actually in charge,

[00:43:03] you know, whether it's corporations or whoever,

[00:43:06] people, you know, people do need to think about who the they is. And a lot of modern conspiracy theories, in my opinion, it tends to be less about what's, the focus tends to be much more on finding a they than whether or not the claim itself is true, if that makes sense.

[00:44:22] Yeah, no, I'm just, to Ukraine and whatever else, send them some flares because clearly that does some damage. And I don't believe that.

[00:45:42] Like it doesn't make any sense.

[00:45:43] And then I started to look into it a little bit.

[00:45:46] And of course you see all these random people on their at this now. And yeah, I don't, you know, I can't speak to the, the leaked claims because I don't, you know, I haven't seen, just because I'm literally just looking at it now. So I can't, you know, speak to that side of it. But obviously, this doesn't look like that from my knowledge. But cryptid, UFO, ghost, you know, wacky stories of the week, just taking a fun look. But when we look at conspiracy theories, you know, what I find really frustrating is like what you're talking about. You know, we have the police in this country. I mean, I'm assuming, you know, from our accent, we have the two very different types of American

[00:48:22] hacks and voices and energy here.

[00:48:24] I think it's fair to say you're an indigun.

[00:48:26] I'm a sat, I am not going to publicly say what happened about something I don't know much about. But like I said, rule of thumb, I don't believe a statement by the police, but it's coming from the police and their capacity as the police. Yeah. Like I said, the only thing I saw was someone had supposedly reported this guy was shooting

[00:49:40] off flares at his property.

[00:49:42] And then the police said they were having a standoff with him, trying to reason with

[00:49:44] him.

[00:49:45] And he shot flares at them and then they shot another one and it blew up the house. You're literally giving them the traffic that they want. It's like buying fucking World Series tickets. Well, with you being Jewish, obviously with a Christian people will understand that everyone says Jesus is coming back and I'm not trying to offend anyone out there, but like it's the same thing I feel like with these Q people is, oh, Q's coming, it's coming.

[00:51:02] The happenings coming, oh, it didn't happen.

[00:51:04] Well, it's still coming, it's still coming.

[00:51:05] It's just like you're waiting for Jesus to come back.

[00:51:08] He's, oh, he the World Series in 1986. I know that much. So I'm not much of a baseball fan. So it's hard for me to keep track. I know. I know when the Cubs won around this area, because literally that's all everyone in my neck of the woods, all Cub fans. So,

[00:52:20] are you a, uh, you're Chicago guy?

[00:52:23] No, I'm from Indiana, but we don't have a team.

[00:52:26] Oh no, but I was going to, maybe as- You're referring to Rutherford B. Hayes, right?

[00:53:42] Their preferred president.

[00:53:43] Yeah.

[00:53:44] Agent Orange with tiny hands, that guy.

[00:53:46] Yeah. civility and, you know, as much as like, like as much as it's good to talk shit about and condemn a lot of the right in particular, I think a lot of what's become social conservatism. Prior to 2016, I do think it was broadly fair to say that there was a certain type of communitarian value and a certain type of, you know, approach to decency, that if it was not entirely good, was at least broadly beneficial.

[00:56:08] invocation of this image of the quote unquote Davidic Messiah, you know, a figure like King David. How much how I guess I should number one, I'm going to clarify for your audience kind of where I'm coming from with this Jewish that's, you know, my religious tradition and tell its own mytho-poetic history and stuff like that. You just need to read it like you would read another culture's natural, national epic and not read it like a work of history. But the thing to know about David is that David is historically,

[00:57:40] you know, he is the, in the Jewish tradition, the Messiah back to the original thing with Q. You know, the whole cabal story, right? Basically the elites are all part of this evil, satanic cabal or whatever. And

[00:59:00] that's what Q was all about. They thought he was going to come and expose all that and That's also weird because like, you know, like there was the Kennedy is still alive theory for a while, right? That theory was floated around for a long time. But at least Kennedy was like a president. And you can't really do Ted Kennedy is still alive because, you know, we watched him die

[01:00:23] a cancer ridden drunk and it was mostly pretty sad. What did he ever do to make people- That's what I'm saying. That's where I scratch my head with the whole thing. I think, and this is not me being a sympathizer, I think the people that fall for this type of stuff, I think they have good intentions.

[01:01:41] Oh yeah, 100%.

[01:01:43] No, if you actually, everyone wants to be going on in that community, there's something there. But I mean, look, Q is a very,

[01:03:02] I guess all I would just say that I think you're,

[01:03:05] oh, I'm trying to think of a way to put this.

[01:04:08] horse at this point, but again, if someone is willing to do what supposedly happened

[01:04:11] and goes on like, Oh, we're going to take back the country. We're going to do this ready that we're going to, we're going to riot because

[01:04:15] our agent of orange-ness said to, and this it's very hypocritical.

[01:04:21] And I said the same thing during 2020 with all the stuff going on.

[01:05:25] your reactionary dictator, particularly when we already have under non democratic systems in place in this country to install your reactionary dictator and they didn't work. Like I just don't

[01:05:29] think there's an equivalency. You have to look at what people are protesting about and make an

[01:05:33] evaluation on whether or not they're good or bad. No, I understand that. What I'm just pointing out

[01:05:37] is basically like all the people that were so around the world. We don't really, you know, we kind of have a centrist party and a right wing party. Whereas if we had a centrist party, a left wing party, a center left party, a center right and a right wing party, we'd probably have a very different politics. But, you know, I think that, you know like the UFO world the cryptid world the conspiracy world you know various types of people want to talk about it and you don't ever announce future episodes. I just record, I have them on backlogs, and they come out when they come out. I learned real quickly that I can't say I'm having guests come on because those guests

[01:09:41] continue to flake out, so it's more or less just

[01:09:45] people reach out to me, they send me an email,

[01:09:47] they message me on the, whether it's the ghost hunting community or the Bigfoot hunting community like what are they saying, where like you just said, they could have some sort of issue, like psychological issue, delusions. Like I don't, I don't know. And I don't want to be the type of person that's just, I'm just going to air whatever out there cause I need content. I need content. I'm not going to bet my guests. I'm not, that's not what I'm about.

[01:12:20] Like I want to give everyone.

[01:12:23] Yeah.

[01:12:23] That's not what I'm trying to do.

[01:12:24] Like I don't want to come off here and just be like, well, that's a new episode.

[01:13:23] don't continue to go down that path because sometimes I feel like there's something else going on with these people and it seems like I'm taking advantage and that's not what I'm

[01:13:28] here to try and do.

[01:13:29] No, totally.

[01:13:30] I totally get it.

[01:13:31] I think we're on the same page with it and I think, I mean, what we do is a little bit

[01:13:37] different that we'd end up with fewer guests, but it is very scary.

[01:13:41] It is very scary is the wrong word, a if somebody wants to have you on an art with you in pickles and what you're doing, that's one thing. But if somebody's coming onto your show, you know, and they're trying to tell, you know, what they're saying is they're a story and you're the first police they've told it, you know, if you think it's bullshit Charles can have us, grab the guns, stick with it. War of 1812, three this time is personal, let's go. And to our British soldier listeners,

[01:16:20] I will say I will quarter you.

[01:16:22] I will quarter you.

[01:16:23] I will give up my American rights right away.

[01:16:27] I'm waving my neutral flag as a jutallion. So we are underworld news tonight. We are probably everywhere you get your podcast You know, some people get their podcast from like weird fucking places so we're not on like Your baby if you order whatever the fuck we're most normal places that you get your podcast You can look us up underworld news tonight. We are also on Facebook and Instagram as underworld news tonight

[01:17:41] Yeah, we just do a fun look at the weird wacky wild supernatural news of the week

[01:17:46] It's a ton of fun to me that I just feel will swallow me entirely. I think that's everybody. Well, I think we're good for this one. So we're going to roll on out. So again, thanks to Andrew. And thanks for listening. Thanks guys.

[01:19:04] Remember the truth lies in the stories we share, the connections we make, stay curious, stay open to shore, air to ground, cities to local communities. CBP agents and officers are keeping people safe. Join U.S. Customs and Border Protection and go beyond for something far greater than yourself. Learn more at CBP.gov slash careers.

[01:20:20] Pulling up to Mickey D's just for drinks? Oh yeah, that's me. Nothing extra, just perfection