Ep. 68: Decades of Cryptid Investigations with Debbie Hatswell

[00:00:00] Hello listeners and foil fanatics, it's Brandon from Tenfoil Tales. I want to take a moment of your time before the episode starts to let you know about the new livestream show I have coming out called "Tenfoil Tales After Dark."

[00:00:12] Tenfoil Tales After Dark will be livestream exclusively on YouTube on the last Thursday of every month at 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.

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[00:01:36] [Music]

[00:01:40] And I just turned around and I pulled ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with that.

[00:01:46] [Music]

[00:01:49] The hypocrisy of the cold is one of the things that turned me away the quickest.

[00:01:55] [Music]

[00:01:58] When I turned my headlights on, it turned and looked at us and one of the things I remember the most were the eyes were going to rest.

[00:02:06] [Music]

[00:02:08] I see an orbit of light. It is just circling. These steps like it is waiting for me.

[00:02:15] [Music]

[00:02:18] And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like what are you talking about?

[00:02:24] [Music]

[00:02:27] That's seven foot up on a tree peeking around it and that's where I saw the top of a muzzle.

[00:02:33] Nose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing it felt like death.

[00:02:39] [Music]

[00:02:43] Welcome back to 10 Foil Tails. I'm your host, Brandon Wright.

[00:02:47] Tonight's episode we're going to be joined by my guest Debbie Hatswell.

[00:02:50] She has been researching in the cryptids and other paranormal experiences for over 40 years and she reached out to me.

[00:02:58] Come on here and talk about a little bit of what she's experienced herself which got her on the path to looking into these sort of things.

[00:03:05] Before we bring her on though. Little things we need to talk about.

[00:03:09] If you've ever had an experience and you'd like to be on an episode of 10 Foil Tails you can send an email to 10foiltellspodcast@gmail.com.

[00:03:16] We'll get you scheduled on a future episode. If you want to help the podcast you can leave a five star review, you write one out.

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[00:03:26] Anywhere you listen to podcast you can leave a review. The five star definitely helps with the rankings.

[00:03:31] You can share the podcast around that helps get the port out there for other potential listeners which means potential guests for the show so new episodes coming from that.

[00:03:40] Anything you guys do I definitely appreciate all that.

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[00:03:51] Make sure to check out the website, 10foiltells.com. You can go to the episodes on there. There's also some recap of the episodes in the blog section.

[00:04:01] Think about adding depending on some experiences or anything like that. They can write them out instead of that way if they don't want to be a guest and I can put them up on the blog as well.

[00:04:09] I need to go out there listening if you have an experience and you don't want to be a guest but you do have something that you would like to share. Email that to me.

[00:04:16] You can also contact me on the websites contact page and go that route too.

[00:04:21] I think we're going to go ahead now and bring Debbie on.

[00:04:24] We've been playing tag in the last couple of weeks. Couldn't get anything to work with different time zones with her being in England and different things going on here and there but we could manage to get this figured out so looking forward to talking with her.

[00:04:35] I hope you guys enjoy the episode. Sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

[00:04:39] I'd like to take this time and welcome my guest tonight, Deborah. Thanks for coming on here and talking to me.

[00:04:45] It's lovely. Thank you for inviting me on.

[00:04:48] Not a problem. You'd reached out to me and done some investigations quite a bit of them actually into all sorts of topics so I thought you'd be a great guest to have on here.

[00:04:58] It started a long time ago for me, 56 now. So I've been up to it. I think about 40 years.

[00:05:06] Researching principles. But I've had to power normal events before that when I was a child so I kind of a lifetime thing really.

[00:05:14] Now with all the research and everything that you've done, have you ever had any actual encounters with the cryptid that you've seen?

[00:05:22] To explain a little bit of context, I didn't have any kind of knowledge as big for cryptids.

[00:05:29] Anything like that really I was from England, I'm from the north-west of England.

[00:05:34] In 1982, I was 15. I was with my friend in a countryside and very normal day and I moved, I caught something, and movement really out of the kind of my eye in the green air.

[00:05:50] And this thing ruled my out and I can only describe him as, to me, he's always been the money.

[00:05:57] He looked for all intents and purposes like a man and an eight that had been pushed together.

[00:06:02] I didn't see his body, I only saw him if you liked me to trust up.

[00:06:06] But that's Harry Fife, that event. Absolutely, it's Harry Fife, and it had a remar effect on my life.

[00:06:14] So, it was at that point I started looking into what it possibly could have been that I'd seen, and I was hoping, it was gonna be like an escape animal from the zoo, or something like that, but it never climbed out like that for me.

[00:06:28] And fortunately, as an investigator, I've been able to find all the cases in my town that started in the 50s, then the last one being in the 2000s.

[00:06:37] So, I'm not the only one who's seen him. I just don't know why he is.

[00:06:40] I have always saying questions that any other cryptic witness would have.

[00:06:44] Yeah, I don't know what they honestly are, what they people see.

[00:06:50] I've never seen one of those personally, so I don't, can't say for sure.

[00:06:53] It's always been something that's intrigued me, especially with all the sightings people are reporting.

[00:07:00] It can't all just be mistaken identities.

[00:07:02] Like, there's too many there's too many sightings and weird instances that happen for people just to be mistaken scenes.

[00:07:09] Yes, I would agree and I see the patterns because, as the reports started to come in,

[00:07:15] when I was younger, one way of keeping on top of them was to pin them on a map and that turned into a whole Google map.

[00:07:22] And I have a background in geological profiling, so basically using statistics to find out where the best place to put a new home development or the next best place to put a new casino.

[00:07:35] They had kind of had a background in that and I realised that by plotting the cryptid sighting,

[00:07:40] because I only ever did cryptid sightings back then, I might be able to see a crumb, balmy Olmog.

[00:07:47] So I kind of did, it's always like, very similar to America where the majority of the sightings follow the mounting ranges.

[00:07:54] So the Appalachian Trail, for instance, are the Rocky Mountains.

[00:07:57] And if you get to win to the drier areas, then the sightings become far less, but they are there.

[00:08:03] And now, unfortunately, I've worked in every country in the world.

[00:08:06] And every single country that you can sink up, as a history and a modern sighting of a large, sometimes small, hairy animal creature,

[00:08:19] whatever name you want to give it, that lives in the woodland and kind of says the link to you.

[00:08:24] And so it isn't just an American Russian, you know, Canada, I know we think that, but it's not, there's a vast history of them all across the world.

[00:08:34] You know, China has got their own version, Russia has, I think, Australia has one, like, most every continent that I'm aware of,

[00:08:43] so it's Antarctica, because who knows what's going on down there.

[00:08:46] Yeah, well, I knew it.

[00:08:49] You look at the Native Americans, at University of Alaska natives, back in the day before there was global communication.

[00:08:57] These stories were being tackled, tribes of past only families.

[00:09:01] And we were all disgusting the same things before we could have had this conversation.

[00:09:05] So like in Wales is a very long history of what they would class as like a we will chike creature,

[00:09:11] so a wolf-like man that stands up on two lakes.

[00:09:14] And in England, in the UK, it's a wolf which is more of an ape-like, hairy human that hides in the woodlands,

[00:09:21] and you can find them all across the world, like you say, you know, Australia,

[00:09:26] Japan has the ink to do, trying to think, I mean, the Russian wild man and the reports in Europe,

[00:09:32] are very different, very accepted in Europe, but it's seen as an almost a lucky thing to see them,

[00:09:38] and they just accept that they're wild people and live in just a different life to normal humans.

[00:09:44] I don't know, I just don't know.

[00:09:46] I've taken reports that have been very supernatural in origin and really reports that are very flesh and blood,

[00:09:53] So I'm still on the fence, I'm not on expo, I can't tell you what they are.

[00:09:58] But I can tell you the theories behind what they might be, if you get what I mean, I've done it for that loss.

[00:10:03] Sure.

[00:10:05] What are the theory, what do you think they could be?

[00:10:07] I mean, when I started out, I had to answer because I'm a witness to something,

[00:10:13] apparently I have to know all of the answers to what he was, like where was he from,

[00:10:17] what he could possibly be, what he, you know, how would he make, all of those questions,

[00:10:22] a lot I call the frequently asked questions.

[00:10:24] The research that I do know of the years has led me, my own personal experience is

[00:10:31] that there's more than one thing that we're dealing with,

[00:10:34] and when you look at the descriptions, there are, these are the very typical,

[00:10:38] let's say, North American Sasquatch or War of a 9 feet tall,

[00:10:43] out of the face, completely hair cubbing in the budge.

[00:10:46] But then you have what a plus is almost like caveman report.

[00:10:49] It's our ancient man, wild man.

[00:10:52] So I try to try and separate them to see if there's a difference within them.

[00:10:57] So me, I believe that they are some form of archaic human.

[00:11:02] Somewhere on the same hominid line as us in the same way that we bred in Neanderthal,

[00:11:08] we probably bred with these guys, are far more suited to this planet than we are.

[00:11:13] They don't need homes, they don't need all the things that we need to live on the planet.

[00:11:17] We'd find them in every country.

[00:11:19] So that would say to me, they've either been there as long as there's a whole lot of them.

[00:11:22] But there are some experiences that talk with them are most vanishing

[00:11:28] in front of their eyes, so is there a dimensional element to this,

[00:11:33] or is there a natural ability that we don't understand in the same way

[00:11:37] that we didn't understand what an octopus was when we first came across it?

[00:11:40] I don't know, I really don't know.

[00:11:42] We knew a little half of footprints that suddenly appear in a field,

[00:11:47] and then just automatically vanish and get enough to it in several steps.

[00:11:51] I don't know how that's happening, unless it is the natural ability of the hair

[00:11:57] that they have to kind of mirror our surroundings,

[00:12:00] because you also get those reports where people say,

[00:12:03] "I could see the trees moving, but I couldn't see what was moving them.

[00:12:07] I could hear it. I could smell it."

[00:12:08] I knew it was there, but I couldn't get eyes on it.

[00:12:10] It was like the predator out of the film,

[00:12:14] so you just get, it's like a tapestry, but with lots of misting, weaving,

[00:12:18] and we're trying to weave that back together again

[00:12:21] by each individual witness giving us a tiny bit of what happened to them.

[00:12:26] And if we don't share them on podcasts like this,

[00:12:29] or in boats, or, you know, map them, they're just going to obscurity.

[00:12:34] And all those hints and little clues,

[00:12:37] we won't have them anymore twice that real.

[00:12:40] I think with the way we are today,

[00:12:44] obviously with podcasts like mine and other ones out there,

[00:12:47] and there's all sorts of documentaries now.

[00:12:49] There's a lot more interest, I feel like,

[00:12:52] with sasquatch, with other cryptid sightings,

[00:12:57] and obviously the UAP stuff going on here in America,

[00:13:01] and all this other stuff that's been more open,

[00:13:05] just thinking like 15, 20 years ago, I never thought would be

[00:13:08] having conversations about any of this type of stuff really.

[00:13:12] Yeah, it's agreed.

[00:13:14] It's very, very taboo, but now it seems it's still got that stigma to it,

[00:13:18] but it's not as bad as it used to be.

[00:13:21] There's a lot more open about it, I think.

[00:13:23] I think there's been a change as well.

[00:13:25] There's been some kind of change from about 2017

[00:13:28] that the sides of all the world are on the increase, more UAPs,

[00:13:34] more gold, subparanormal, what would cost us paranormal,

[00:13:37] an entity report, more dog binary reports,

[00:13:40] more big-foot reports,

[00:13:41] so that's got to be more people coming forward, obviously,

[00:13:44] and it's much easier, as you say, to report these days.

[00:13:49] Well, I've also noticed, you mentioned yourself,

[00:13:52] the UAP and the disclosures we're having now.

[00:13:54] We've gone from the 1970s,

[00:13:57] where there are no aliens at all out there, it's based on what you say,

[00:14:01] so all governments now share in what they have,

[00:14:03] are they getting us ready for something?

[00:14:05] Because most of the films that you go to at the moment

[00:14:08] for children have a big foot are us as watching them.

[00:14:10] You see them in our perturbations now,

[00:14:13] it's becoming almost like we're dumbing them down,

[00:14:15] like we did with the alien live farm,

[00:14:18] so if you kind of ridicule it and make it silly,

[00:14:20] people may accept it much easier,

[00:14:23] are we moving back, I got to ask,

[00:14:25] as it's conspiracy there, it's just people calling that.

[00:14:28] It's the reason for this disclosure,

[00:14:31] it's something coming.

[00:14:33] And they're about to say, well, actually,

[00:14:35] yeah, there are aliens walking along this earth,

[00:14:38] and there are Sasquatch,

[00:14:39] and we have hit and all these things from me over time,

[00:14:42] and I would be windowgating that going forward

[00:14:45] without mister panic and what?

[00:14:47] I don't know, because I think there's a lot of money involved.

[00:14:51] If you suddenly declare that there's Sasquatch

[00:14:55] in say, Washington State, what to do about lobbying,

[00:14:58] what you do about mining,

[00:15:00] you know, what to do about all those things,

[00:15:01] but in the pipelines and things like that,

[00:15:03] and you'd have to kind of,

[00:15:05] they'd be like a species in the rural right,

[00:15:09] wouldn't they, if we could prove it,

[00:15:10] they'd have to apply and put away for them.

[00:15:12] So I think it's within the government's interest

[00:15:15] to not tell us what's really going on,

[00:15:18] but we are being dripped side at the moment.

[00:15:19] It's very clear.

[00:15:20] I've always kind of thought that if these things do exist,

[00:15:25] kind of like what you just mentioned,

[00:15:28] there's definitely an aspect to them

[00:15:31] that they don't want us to know.

[00:15:32] And I think a lot of it's because of monetary reasons,

[00:15:34] because realistically,

[00:15:37] money is the root of everything it seems like.

[00:15:42] And if there's proof that any of these type of things exist,

[00:15:47] that up roots that whole system,

[00:15:49] especially with Sasquatch,

[00:15:50] if they live out in the forest and you can't be out,

[00:15:53] cutting down homes,

[00:15:54] there's gonna be a lot of regulations,

[00:15:56] even more stipulations into stuff like that.

[00:15:58] So it's gonna up root a lot of that industry.

[00:16:00] Look at tourism where it would die off in the national park.

[00:16:04] - National parks are an interesting thing in general,

[00:16:09] because there's so many reports of strange activity

[00:16:12] and missing people.

[00:16:13] - Exactly, can you imagine?

[00:16:16] So you've got that,

[00:16:17] and most of some of the people that into this subject

[00:16:20] know about that.

[00:16:21] But I would imagine there's probably 70%

[00:16:23] of the rest of the universe.

[00:16:24] It doesn't know about the connection

[00:16:27] between printed reports, areas of high energy

[00:16:30] and missing people, or strange disappearances.

[00:16:34] And bridge water triangle springs to mind in America.

[00:16:38] Once the public put that together

[00:16:40] with the fact that the knowledge

[00:16:41] that maybe they've been walking alongside these things

[00:16:44] were a very long time in out realizing that,

[00:16:46] I think there would be mass uproar.

[00:16:48] I don't know how the government would be able

[00:16:51] to keep a lid on that, you know.

[00:16:54] I think people, it would just be a tipping point

[00:16:56] for most folks.

[00:16:57] I think a lot of people feel

[00:16:59] that they've been sold a bad deal, you know.

[00:17:02] And we did what, yes, we put the time in at school,

[00:17:05] and then we went out and we got the job

[00:17:06] and we got the car that yester to go.

[00:17:08] You know, we've got this whole

[00:17:09] and it's forever unentainable.

[00:17:11] And we're there on the right race

[00:17:12] and we're doing it daily.

[00:17:14] Surely there's more to this.

[00:17:15] Most are of the start of that at some point in our lives.

[00:17:18] And I think you say, "Okay, if I were going to set,

[00:17:20] "well, actually, yeah, aliens do exist."

[00:17:22] Or, "Yeah, it's just what sugars exist."

[00:17:24] I think that would be a tipping point for most folks.

[00:17:25] And they'd be like, "That's me done."

[00:17:27] It's like, you know,

[00:17:28] about them in societies,

[00:17:30] probably the most dysfunctional relationship,

[00:17:33] you know, not having your life.

[00:17:34] And if you can walk away from that,

[00:17:37] you become a much happier person.

[00:17:38] And I think some of it is about keeping us dumb down,

[00:17:43] stopping us being strong,

[00:17:44] you know, taking away that confidence.

[00:17:46] You didn't see a big foot that day,

[00:17:47] you saw a cow signed on.

[00:17:50] People told me that I saw a homeless man,

[00:17:53] a man in a suit, an actual bin lining,

[00:17:55] you know, like a garbage bag

[00:17:57] that I'd just mixed up in my mind

[00:17:59] 'cause I was a hysterical 15-year-old.

[00:18:01] What I saw that day shaped my life in "Menslut,"

[00:18:05] because I've never been able to get over it,

[00:18:07] and I've done everything I can

[00:18:10] to try and prove what I saw.

[00:18:14] I'm not a liar.

[00:18:14] I did see that that day.

[00:18:16] And I've been very lucky,

[00:18:19] so I've met people over the years

[00:18:20] that have been able to say to me,

[00:18:21] "Look, that things have changed."

[00:18:23] You know, but I don't know anything

[00:18:25] about the subjects of UFO,

[00:18:27] paranormal, or only from a personal point of view,

[00:18:30] never from it like an investor side to go and learn it.

[00:18:33] So I made sure I found the best people in each subject

[00:18:36] and just learn whatever I had to solve it in

[00:18:38] as much as I can, and that's frightening,

[00:18:40] because, like me and you,

[00:18:42] we're on the side of the screen where we know about us,

[00:18:46] so when you pick a holiday,

[00:18:47] you probably shouldn't have got all the reports

[00:18:50] that you've, you know,

[00:18:51] in the interviews that you've done up,

[00:18:52] people that you've spoken to that have an experience at.

[00:18:55] So you start to be like,

[00:18:57] "Just how many?"

[00:18:58] If I was to tell you,

[00:18:59] there were over, finally,

[00:19:01] probably 600 reports of an eight month in England.

[00:19:04] In the UK, in that tiny little island,

[00:19:07] people wouldn't believe me.

[00:19:09] But we have the same prints that you find.

[00:19:11] We have the same witness testimony on it.

[00:19:13] We have the same description.

[00:19:15] We have the same air samples,

[00:19:17] same kind of habitat.

[00:19:19] And when you look at that,

[00:19:23] and you take us many reports,

[00:19:24] as I did, then you think,

[00:19:26] "This is not just about England or Russia,

[00:19:28] "or America, as I said, it's a world-wide thing."

[00:19:31] And if all of us woke up at the same time,

[00:19:33] we could really overthrow the elite.

[00:19:35] It's not that many of them.

[00:19:36] Everything we do goes upwards.

[00:19:38] And it's all about money like you're sending.

[00:19:40] It just gets funneled upwards.

[00:19:42] You know, and we're just the ones

[00:19:43] that we're making it far,

[00:19:45] and we'd eat my soapbox thing.

[00:19:48] It's empowering people,

[00:19:51] because you've spoken to people yourself,

[00:19:53] you've probably had a lot of drama

[00:19:54] from an event that's happened to them.

[00:19:56] And you kind of stuck with that.

[00:19:57] There's no way you can go with it.

[00:20:00] - There's definitely a lot to people

[00:20:05] that have actually had experiences

[00:20:06] to those that have not.

[00:20:07] I've noticed.

[00:20:08] And even with people that host podcasts,

[00:20:11] I feel like there's people out there

[00:20:13] that've never had any experiences.

[00:20:14] And they host these types of podcasts,

[00:20:16] and it's hard for them to relate to people.

[00:20:18] - Yeah. - To those that...

[00:20:20] Me personally,

[00:20:21] I was told that whatever I saw was a bear,

[00:20:25] and I know the difference between what I saw

[00:20:30] and what a bear is.

[00:20:32] So, I didn't see a bear.

[00:20:34] - Do you mind telling a bit about that?

[00:20:37] What happened?

[00:20:38] - Basically, back in 2007,

[00:20:42] without going into a whole iPad episodes about it

[00:20:46] or whatever, without taking up too much time.

[00:20:49] I was coming home from work in a coworker

[00:20:52] that swerved off the road in front of me,

[00:20:54] and there was a big black shape

[00:20:55] strolling down the road.

[00:20:57] And it was moving in a very weird glitchy movement.

[00:21:01] It didn't look natural, very unnatural movements.

[00:21:04] And I had to swerve to come to a stop

[00:21:06] and walk past my vehicle.

[00:21:08] I didn't see a head, and I didn't see any arms,

[00:21:10] but it was at least seven foot tall.

[00:21:12] - Right. - Yeah.

[00:21:12] Good.

[00:21:14] We pulled into a parking lot.

[00:21:17] I tried to figure out what we just saw.

[00:21:20] I said, I'm going to go back and look.

[00:21:22] He followed me and we went back

[00:21:23] and there was a big black dog laying across the road.

[00:21:26] - Right.

[00:21:27] - And I got out of the vehicle.

[00:21:28] And he's yelling at me not to get out.

[00:21:30] I got out of the vehicle and I walk up to it,

[00:21:32] and this thing stands up on two legs.

[00:21:34] And I wasn't afraid or anything,

[00:21:38] but it was only about my height.

[00:21:41] - Right, yeah.

[00:21:42] - And it looked like a black wolf German Shepherd type face,

[00:21:45] and it was really puffy fur.

[00:21:47] And then it kneels down and it goes off towards the woods.

[00:21:50] And then we never seen it again.

[00:21:52] Like the shorter version is, we didn't talk about it.

[00:21:59] I went back to work.

[00:22:00] He didn't want to talk about it.

[00:22:01] He said, he didn't want to know about it.

[00:22:03] And when you think, he went, "We were crazy."

[00:22:05] So for 15 years, I never talked about it.

[00:22:08] And then when I have mentioned to people

[00:22:09] and I go, "You've saw a bear."

[00:22:11] And we don't have bears here.

[00:22:13] - No, you know they're different.

[00:22:15] - Yeah, I was 15 feet away from this thing.

[00:22:17] I can tell the difference between a dog looking wolf looking thing

[00:22:20] or a bear.

[00:22:22] - Very much so.

[00:22:24] - And our headlights were on it.

[00:22:25] So, but yeah, I don't know of any type of dog

[00:22:29] that stands up on two legs.

[00:22:30] - I mean, it's a validate.

[00:22:32] I talk hoolage this in America, Canada,

[00:22:35] Russia, England, all across the world.

[00:22:39] It's upright.

[00:22:40] What you would describe as almost as a German Shepherd

[00:22:42] or an outsider, as I would call it in Europe.

[00:22:46] - Up on two legs, not very dog-like in the body

[00:22:50] in all understand.

[00:22:51] Some people even mention hollens and feet rather than paws.

[00:22:56] And this, when he said he knelt down

[00:22:59] and went off into the watch, he just reminded me

[00:23:01] of a case that I went and hung at the moment.

[00:23:03] And that was in France.

[00:23:04] That was a gentleman in 2003.

[00:23:07] About three-copy in the morning was on the road, driving.

[00:23:10] And as he's coming off what we would call a fan plane

[00:23:13] to go on to the main highway, as the American Scarlett.

[00:23:17] Birthday Corona on the gravel road is what he described

[00:23:21] as a female.

[00:23:23] Exactly what you saw, puffy fur, snow is on top of head,

[00:23:29] knelt down on the gravel.

[00:23:31] But he said it was clearly a female, had breasts.

[00:23:36] And as the car lights have hit it,

[00:23:38] she's just stood off on a runner into the woods and gone.

[00:23:41] And he said the same, he said,

[00:23:42] "It wasn't frightened.

[00:23:44] "I was just in awe of what I was looking at."

[00:23:46] And people are saying to him,

[00:23:47] "Oh, it will just be an ordinary wolf or something."

[00:23:50] You know, the difference your brain

[00:23:52] kind of tries to work out what it is that you see.

[00:23:54] You know, it's like, a fail of fact.

[00:23:57] Do you mean it, like a really quick,

[00:23:59] "Wow, is it a dog, is it a dog?

[00:24:01] "What is it?

[00:24:02] "You know, what is it that I'm looking at?"

[00:24:04] And you're just trying to left with that.

[00:24:05] That was what it was like for me.

[00:24:07] But the creature that you're describing,

[00:24:11] some people would call a werewolf or a dog man

[00:24:13] or a wolf by these names for it, wherever you go.

[00:24:16] And thousands of people say them, all across the world,

[00:24:19] and make reports of them, you know?

[00:24:22] And they're just not believed.

[00:24:23] They're just not believed.

[00:24:25] So I think, how could you believe

[00:24:26] someone was seeing a Bigfoot?

[00:24:28] Or you can believe somebody who's seeing a spirit

[00:24:32] they've been abducted. But you don't believe this person because you've never heard the

[00:24:35] description of the creature before. Just look at the lead growing in France. It goes back

[00:24:39] all the way in this straw. You know, and it's this creature that you start that's often

[00:24:45] seed world crossing or on the edges of broad can often be found as well around ancient burial

[00:24:52] sites on new cemeteries. So all this like a new best something to do with death in a way,

[00:24:57] like the shops of England.

[00:24:59] That's kind of where I relate things back to is there's been description of these dog

[00:25:04] men wolf men type creatures for years. Obviously, Anubis was supposed to be a jackal, but it's

[00:25:09] still like a wolf type thing, the ancient Egyptians. Now, obviously they had many depictions

[00:25:15] and weird things they had like other creatures on human bodies as well. But even with the

[00:25:24] ancient Sumerians, they had even like weird animal heads on top of people figures and

[00:25:28] some other stuff as well.

[00:25:30] Yeah, this cave painting is very early cave paintings in Europe, where it's a man on the

[00:25:37] bottom of a wolf on the top. So like typical hybrid, cross between the two, you listen

[00:25:43] to stories in Poland, where they speak them being in the woodlands when the Germans from

[00:25:48] Germany were able to. And some villages have been lost out there and they've said that

[00:25:53] the wolves kept them alive overnight. Scotland, job the Woolfers. They were setting history.

[00:26:00] They just wanted to be left alone really. But if somebody in the village was starving

[00:26:05] they know it was really, really sick. They would come in and help. And the only one he

[00:26:09] was just to be left alone within the forest themselves. And you just think saying Christopher

[00:26:16] is supposed to be a job head of man as well, I came across that a number of years ago when

[00:26:21] I was research.

[00:26:22] I didn't know that. And there was some ancient dog tribes that Ben and Danci and the Sinai

[00:26:26] Cephalis. They were very positive beings that fought on the side of the good against

[00:26:32] evil at night so that humans could rest. You know, so he could sleep. They were kind of

[00:26:36] like the guard, spiritual guard, dog kinds of thing. And I wonder if that's why they

[00:26:41] kind of seen a round ancient burial sites in that kind of way. Now, dog and we're all

[00:26:47] I've taken reports where they've been incredibly aggressive, where they've chased cars or they've

[00:26:52] had red eyes or they've chased people out of the woods. But I don't think any being

[00:26:56] is negative or positive. It doesn't work like that for me, I think. Maybe some of them

[00:27:02] are just like that, you know, they just hate humans and that's it. You know, they must

[00:27:09] see us do some awful things in the woods. And so you don't know. You don't know that

[00:27:12] I, to me, I don't think that just an animal, just an animal. I don't get a wall stood up

[00:27:18] onto your legs. I think it's far more than that and it's incredibly intelligent, incredibly

[00:27:23] intelligent. I've worked on cases in medieval and only last month where what we're looking

[00:27:31] at is looks like you or I would bait a trap to bring an animal in. So we've got is a newly

[00:27:39] killed deer. It's been left in a hollow and almost like early Neanderthals. Little pitaper

[00:27:47] cliff and then they throw bricks at the only one that throw rocks at the animals. It came

[00:27:50] through. It was an easy way of killing them. This look like a mol Millions of people you

[00:27:57] must know with the case, the line between the late case. Yeah. And he's not that far.

[00:28:01] It's only the other end of the lake. And this guys got what looks like a day out and send

[00:28:07] me the false graphs. And it just looks like it's been bet through the head with a 1092

[00:28:12] and it's left out there and I said to him, not really strange because the meat there

[00:28:17] what's he out there to trap? So he wouldn't be to bring with the dairy because you've already

[00:28:23] got the day made. Yeah. And it's a puzzle I don't know. It's just a new case that I'm

[00:28:29] starting working on. He's going to put some go pro cameras up and we'll see what we find

[00:28:32] on the proper set.

[00:28:35] I think the land between the lakes thing, there's been two different versions that I've heard.

[00:28:40] One was a family that got slaughtered. And there was the Martin Grimes story that he came

[00:28:46] out with. And there's been other reports and everything, but every time when I hear people

[00:28:52] talk about land between the lakes, they always reference this family that was murdered, I

[00:28:56] think, back in the eighties. And this one guy claims he was a survivor of this and then

[00:29:03] there's been people that claim that they disproven him and he's not honest or whatever. It seems

[00:29:08] to be that way with everything. Somebody somewhere is always going to try and disprove somebody.

[00:29:13] And luckily for me, I don't know the taste very well. And so I'm not really I think when

[00:29:21] those reports came in to me. I've got three before us from the area. None of them mentioned

[00:29:25] the land between the lakes or these are separate people that have made reports of creatures

[00:29:30] around from that area. So look, I was able to not be buying a style away because I haven't

[00:29:36] heard like you. I understand that this is a story aside. A bit where a family was killed

[00:29:41] and went missing and then there was another guy that came out years later. That's a small

[00:29:45] choice. I know about it. You know, I'll honest. And I'm sure all I've worked with people

[00:29:51] have have done a lot of research into the case. It's every really cool looking conversation

[00:29:56] for me. So I was interested because obviously I've taken three reports from three separate

[00:30:02] people over a 10 year period around that lake area. So I'm always waiting for another

[00:30:08] report to come in from there because it's three people have reported in like to say

[00:30:13] this guy. It was more not that he'd seen a creature. It was more he was noticing strange

[00:30:19] things on his land. And it was like, well, let's keep an eye on it. Then that's all

[00:30:23] we can do really, isn't it? Some go pros, I didn't see anything happen. You know, there's

[00:30:29] been reports around here as well recently. And hard at me wants to try and go out and

[00:30:39] look for stuff for my own just for my own personal thing. But at the same time, I'm not

[00:30:45] one that wants to go out. And what am I going to do if I actually run face to face with

[00:30:49] this thing again? Maybe this time it's not going to run away.

[00:30:51] Yeah. Yeah, I have the same dilemma. I have the same dilemma, obviously. But you know,

[00:30:58] what do you do in that situation? I don't want to see it again. A lot of people say to

[00:31:02] me, Oh, you're so lucky. I don't feel lucky. It was awful. Seeing nothing was awful. It

[00:31:07] was like, my parents lying to me. Are there monsters out there? And they've told me that

[00:31:12] they're on. It's like, I didn't even have like, I don't think she even had a boy present

[00:31:17] at that point. It was only fifty. And it just this thing was awful. It was a hundred. It

[00:31:22] was really bare. And it was much bigger than my dad. And it was right close to my school.

[00:31:28] So I'd have to pass that area all the time to go to school. And I still have 12 months

[00:31:32] to do that. I hated it. And the idea of seeing it again, just no, even this far distance,

[00:31:41] even with all these years between us and all my knowledge. As I am a parapsychologist,

[00:31:46] I'm a, you know, a critic on top. Still, no, I don't want to see it again. I don't, I

[00:31:51] don't, I wouldn't want to be in hypnotized. And going back to that day, safely, and seeing

[00:31:57] if I can look at the situation and not be a frightened 15 year old, but it was in the

[00:32:04] same sense that if a digriller, it'd come out of that bush are a lion. It was the same

[00:32:11] fear as I was primal, utterly primal. I was on my feet, I pushed my friend to the

[00:32:16] floor. And that's not me. And I did it without thinking. And what I was thinking was he can

[00:32:21] get it before he gets me. And I was often running. And my peppers just said, Oh, it's

[00:32:25] probably in a homeless manner. Well, you just know way on this earth. It was a homeless

[00:32:30] man. You don't give fast the odd years of your life to something. No. You know, it shaped

[00:32:39] me to be the only way I can put it. My girls have grown up with it. They know about it.

[00:32:43] You know, that's why I'm taking company when they were kids. I couldn't go to the woodlands

[00:32:47] to stay overnight, I can do any of those things that my parents did with me. That's

[00:32:51] too scared. No, it doesn't pack you just because, and I've even said people have asked

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[00:33:26] Has it ever impacted me? What I'd saw for the most part, I was like, no, not really.

[00:33:30] I'm doing a podcast about this stuff. I used to be very skeptical. I didn't think anything

[00:33:34] like this existed. So yeah, it has an impact on me now that I've come to talk about. I

[00:33:38] wouldn't be doing this show if I didn't have that experience. So, yeah, I think it makes

[00:33:43] you more open minded as well. So like, people are saying to me, well, you haven't got a

[00:33:49] background in the paranormal. How do you help? Well, I know what your arm is lying. I know

[00:33:54] what it's like to see something and not be believed. So I might not be able to help that

[00:33:59] person myself but I can put them in touch with someone that in the paranormal realm now

[00:34:03] spoken to, you know, that's my skill set is putting people in touch with each other because

[00:34:08] I know what it's like to think that you're out there on your own and nobody else has seen

[00:34:12] it only yet. So you must be absolutely crackers and say that you must be mentally in somewhere.

[00:34:17] But then as you start to find other people and believe me, I don't go into a case and

[00:34:23] give them information. When I go into a case, I want to hear everything they've got to say

[00:34:26] before I share anything with them. So it's not like I'd go into them and say, oh, yeah,

[00:34:30] the several government sites already tell me about yours a speech for a person and say,

[00:34:35] don't start with the site before. Let me what we do in that day before you. And then I get

[00:34:40] them to tell me the importance. Tell me all the way through it. And no, no, the question

[00:34:44] I'll ask is, is there anybody in your family that's experienced, like the paranormal? You

[00:34:49] have for any form of what we would process or the world? Like, because sometimes you

[00:34:52] find that sometimes it's like that grandma maybe had experience with spirit and, you know,

[00:34:59] mom may have an experience with something else. Sometimes it kind of runs in a family

[00:35:02] line like that. But some people are just going about their everyday business and they office

[00:35:07] one after then, like me and you. And you just spend the rest of you thinking, what was

[00:35:13] that? What was it? What why you don't dare? Why me? Why did I see it that day? What was

[00:35:20] it doing out there in the road? You know, if you were to bash yourself up, yeah, it's

[00:35:27] something as bad as I try not to think about it. There's something that's always been in

[00:35:31] the back of my mind that I tried to write it off. It was just a normal dog, because again,

[00:35:38] it didn't have the stereotypical werewolf features. It didn't have the human looking

[00:35:42] body or the hands or feet. But I can't rationalize. What was the first thing that was walking in

[00:35:51] the road? Because it was so much bigger than whatever the dog was. That's the one thing

[00:35:56] that I always get tripped up on. Whatever the thing they didn't have a head or arms that

[00:35:59] we couldn't tell. It had to have been about seven foot tall. When we went back, the dog

[00:36:04] was only like six foot tall. So you saw what was that? Yeah. So it was the first thing,

[00:36:11] and what is this dog standing up? A lot of people seem to tell me that it's, they think

[00:36:16] it was a shape shifter, some interdimensional being transitioned into our world. That's why

[00:36:20] when we first seen it, it was just taking shape and then we've seen it again. And it

[00:36:25] was this dog. I have no idea. Like, I don't really have an opinion one way or another

[00:36:29] because I just know, yeah, the whole thing, the whole thing was seems crazy to me. But

[00:36:34] I know what I saw. No, exactly that. You have this event and then you've got to try

[00:36:40] and explain it to people and you don't really understand it yourself, you know, but your

[00:36:45] word would be good enough in a court of law, if you witness to crime, we would accept your

[00:36:50] word as an honest man. And what you were telling us was correct. So we do that with your

[00:36:54] sir, is it? Because you're an honest man, you bury, you know what you doing? You don't

[00:36:59] put the hours in that you've put into podcasting from nothing, you know, we all have our reason

[00:37:04] at the back of it. And I think most of us are just out there really to find out more,

[00:37:09] you know, tell me your experience. And I'll tell you my experience, we might be able to

[00:37:14] pull a color out, you know, between us. Well, I started doing in the UK, I haven't been

[00:37:19] able to do it for a while now, but I started in about 2016. And I would just tell people

[00:37:24] where I was going to be that day. And I'd rock up with my friend and just get a fire going

[00:37:29] and we'd put a campfire and have a brew and would say, and people would just come out

[00:37:33] and meet us. And I'd start and I'd say, like, my name's Debbie, and this is my name. It's

[00:37:38] even that other people would share their experiences. And it was a really good thing.

[00:37:42] We got it rolling really well. And then unfortunately, when COVID jumped, say, the UK has never

[00:37:47] really gone back to how it was before pre COVID. So we started with probably 50 or 20 people

[00:37:55] the first time, and that really has grown to a massive community online. And so if a

[00:38:03] case comes in now, not in my area, and I can't travel to it, I know people in that area that

[00:38:09] are happy to speak to the witness, happy to go out to the area themselves or the witness

[00:38:14] themselves or do that farmer, they'll say, right, about the six variants and I know you

[00:38:18] can't get up this in the north East, so I'm going to go back. Is it okay for talk on camera

[00:38:23] about what I've seen? And yes, please, because that's the best that I can get out of you.

[00:38:28] If you can go back to the area and say, this is where we were. This is how big it was.

[00:38:32] This is what we saw that night from your in your own words. I think that's very impactful.

[00:38:38] And then I just put that out on my YouTube channel or on the podcast and in there a

[00:38:42] bleh, somebody will message me and say, you don't report that you pulse Saturday. I have

[00:38:47] an experience in that area, or that report that you pulse Saturday isn't the secluded

[00:38:52] same area. I had it maybe 600 miles away, but the creature was the same. You know, there's

[00:38:58] always another witness out there on the road. So even at times when I get trolled, I've had

[00:39:04] show office where I've had to move house and all manner of drama that goes on in the cryptic

[00:39:09] world that you know of. Every time that happens, I think I'm not doing it again. I'm sure I

[00:39:17] millpped up and I'm walking away. I've done 40 years. I've put my time in a dog and my

[00:39:22] husband will say, there's another Debbie out there. There is another Debbie out there

[00:39:25] who thinks that she's man , because she's seen something. And the next day I'll get an

[00:39:29] email or I'll get a Facebook message or you know, somewhere else. What's that mean?

[00:39:35] Deb, can you help? I've seen this maybe, you know, 10 years ago, or Deb, can you help?

[00:39:39] I've seen something today. Deb, can you help? There's a lot of stuff going on at the house

[00:39:43] and you know, I'm really worried. I had to learn a lot of stuff fast. And now I deal

[00:39:49] with this stuff. I don't think this is a phenomenon that I haven't dealt with over the

[00:39:54] years. So like, I'm, say, my case love for this month. There is a hard seat and pouts,

[00:40:01] seven miles away from me. Really quite easy. Grandparents have had experiences in it,

[00:40:09] mum's had experiences in it, teenage boy in the house, things run for poltergeist activity.

[00:40:14] That happens around teenagers. It's just one of those things. If you'd asked me that question

[00:40:19] 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been able to answer it. But I've moved so many cases in

[00:40:24] so many different areas. I'm like a jack of old phrase when it comes to life. The paradigm

[00:40:30] put are the supernatural to get rid of me. And the thing was different about me is I don't

[00:40:34] fear anything. What I faced that day was the scariest thing in this era, absolute scariest

[00:40:41] thing in this era. And I got away from that. I didn't do it dignified. I got away from

[00:40:45] it running a scream. As about that event, like you survived yours and just kind of carried

[00:40:50] on with me life. And it's put me in a unique position now where when I speak to all the

[00:40:55] people, I'm speaking so we're not just as a podcaster. But as a fellow experience where

[00:41:01] I'll nod at them and say, actually, that makes a lot of sense to me. That's what it

[00:41:04] was like for me. He could have been a timeslip. What I saw. He could have come through some

[00:41:11] dimension. He could have been a timeslip. He could have been a paranormal thing. He could

[00:41:15] have been flesh and blood, but that just seems impossible with where he was. I don't think

[00:41:20] I'll ever know. I'll never ever know. But if I have to weigh up now and you ask me where

[00:41:26] they've gone to me head, whether I still I wouldn't have done this or that. If I'm not

[00:41:31] seeing him, I wouldn't have bled this life and I wouldn't be where I am now. So I might

[00:41:34] have been a very different person and I think it changed me for the better in some ways.

[00:41:40] It went very open minded. So my, you might, sorry, my experience is impossible and completely

[00:41:47] and utterly impossible. But it happened. Someone told me that people like us, but this happens

[00:41:55] to and we do the things that we do. We were meant to see the things we've seen because

[00:41:59] we're here to help the people also experience the same thing.

[00:42:03] That's what he feels like to me. That's exactly, it feels like I've been trained for

[00:42:06] this my entire life. I never put, I had strange events in my bedroom when I was a kid and

[00:42:13] I was really smart. And I never put that together with what I was thinking to me when I was

[00:42:19] 50, there was separate events, completely separate events. And now I'm not so sure about

[00:42:25] that. Because what I'd see in the bedroom, a terrifying, absolutely terrifying, and I

[00:42:31] found a way, really kind of shrinking them down. So they weren't frightened anymore.

[00:42:35] So by the time I got to wait a night, it wasn't happening. I kind of shook it down myself

[00:42:39] continuously, but without realizing what there used to be a feeling. When I was a kid, going

[00:42:47] a bad, I was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. And this feeling had come up a split second

[00:42:53] before this thing would appear in the carnival. And that day, when I saw that thing when I

[00:42:59] was 15, that feeling was there again for a split second. And I remember having the amount

[00:43:04] of time to go, Oh, no, because I wasn't on my own this time, I had somebody with me.

[00:43:09] And I thought some, and I kind of maybe I don't know, something inside me knew that something

[00:43:15] awful was about to happen. It was like a millisecond. I didn't really have time to

[00:43:20] think of the thought. And now obviously now with research, and that speaks for the people.

[00:43:25] Lots of people have experienced this from being like four or five in the bedroom, three

[00:43:30] and four, and that kind of go through life with them. So I tried to teach people not

[00:43:37] to be frightened of it. I think there are things in this on this earth that kind of

[00:43:41] feed of children. I think some pits are chosen before the reason, barn and for our age and

[00:43:47] not life. Like to say, it was in family lines for a lot of fall. And I think the most traumatic

[00:43:52] case is of my cases, what involve children, because it takes me back to me being a kid

[00:43:57] and kind of going through it. But I just change its appearance. I don't really know my parents

[00:44:02] levels, other than grandparents, I don't really know any of the generations back before that.

[00:44:09] So I did a DNA test about two years ago, just generally wanted to know like what my family

[00:44:14] had to teach and things like that. And I found my grandmother's family. And I'm kind of

[00:44:21] living a lot of sexy life from Mary Butters, the Carmine Witch, as the Cauldron in Ireland.

[00:44:28] But what was strange was I managed to meet lots of cousins and second cousins and things

[00:44:33] like that. Some go up to the age 90 and others are quite young. And every single one of them

[00:44:38] had paranormal events. Every single one of them that I found had more than one story

[00:44:45] to tell them about being a kid and having experiences at home. And I remember being

[00:44:52] about, I know, what house I was in. So I must have been about three, two or three. And I

[00:44:59] was in McCartin, I was absolutely terrified. And I remember somebody stroked my head like

[00:45:05] really gentle. And it was quite soothing. And I think about that when I got frightened,

[00:45:11] I think about that, that thought should kind of helped a lot. So all these years later,

[00:45:16] I was speaking to my, what would be my second cousin, Linda, who was in her eight season,

[00:45:23] she said, I've never really had paranormal experiences, major, but I know things. If

[00:45:28] I'm walking to a room and know everything about the people in the room are, I know something

[00:45:32] is about to happen. But when my daughter Andrea was a baby and she's yet frightened, somebody

[00:45:41] used to come into the room and stroke ahead. And I remember thinking, Oh my goodness. So

[00:45:48] she's in one side of the UK and I'm in the other side of the UK, totally different generations.

[00:45:53] But she's had that gentle touch as well. Is that one of my ancestors? I don't know,

[00:46:00] I hope that's what it feels like to meet you maybe. You know, yeah, I think when it comes

[00:46:06] to stuff like that, we never really know, we can have an idea or a hope of what it could

[00:46:12] be. But at the end of the day, I don't think we ever really, truly know what it is and what

[00:46:15] the intentions are. Yeah, it was just, I don't know, it was strange it was, it got kind of

[00:46:21] stranger because I still work case with a gentleman and he wasn't from this area, he

[00:46:26] was here for work. And because the train had got in my life, you get to stay at a hotel

[00:46:30] where I live. He's in that hotel and unfortunately, he said, only about half a nine at night

[00:46:36] 10 o'clock at night. He settled out, was just late. And the next thing you feel somebody

[00:46:40] in the bed next to him. And he said it in me panic. I'm thinking, Oh my God, I'm in

[00:46:45] the wrong room. Or someone else just in the wrong room. He said, and as he turned over

[00:46:50] to his female, that next to it, he said, and all I could think of was, Oh, as a man, you

[00:46:56] know, you wake up and there's a lady next to you, you're probably worried that you're

[00:47:00] gonna be on a chat sheet or something. And he said, I didn't know what to do. So I tapped

[00:47:04] a gentler to say, I think you're in the wrong room. He said, and the next thing she turned

[00:47:08] over and started hitting me. And she kind of really hit him if he was fans, and she vanished,

[00:47:14] like completely vanished. And he said, I just, I was so upset. He said that I thought that

[00:47:20] I'd frightened her. And he said, I didn't know what to do. I just didn't know what to

[00:47:25] do. He said, and I sat on the end of the bed. And I just said to her, look, I'm sorry.

[00:47:29] I didn't mean to frighten you. Can you like come back if you want kind of thing? So a

[00:47:34] lot into it for him. And a lady had died two years before. In that hotel, and she died

[00:47:39] in a sleep. She died an agony with a partner, and she'd gone and stayed the night of the

[00:47:44] hotel and she was a diabetic. And she hadn't took her meds before she went to bed in a

[00:47:48] hospital. She died in a sleep. And I said to him, possibly, she doesn't know that she's

[00:47:55] passed. She's still in the bed, you know, she doesn't know. She's there every night.

[00:47:59] And she's woke up. And he's been a man in a bed. Like two worlds of collide, he'd done

[00:48:03] right. But he got a strange, you know, so I found these mystery cousins. But this is

[00:48:08] like 18 months on. And we're talking the in the mystery cousin, and he said, you know,

[00:48:13] we said we had to change what I see when we can go. He said it was something wrong. We

[00:48:19] couldn't get a mechanic, so we used to get one's call from down south. And when he got

[00:48:23] here, he had to stay in this hotel in town at a travel lodge. He said, when he'd come

[00:48:28] in the morning, he would wipe. And I said to him, what's wrong? And he said, Oh, I'm

[00:48:33] going an awful night last night. He said, I stayed at the travel lodge. I was telling

[00:48:37] me, or Kourtney was a woman, he said, that's kind of get over it. And I said to him,

[00:48:42] was his name Bill? Anyway, and yeah, it was. Oh, do you know? I said, because he's

[00:48:45] one of my cases and words it about 18. Well, before you met, you know, like before

[00:48:50] after you met him found a thing. But yeah, that's a strange coincidence.

[00:48:55] That's it.

[00:48:58] Some people don't believe in coincidences. I don't believe in coincidences,

[00:49:03] That was meant.

[00:49:04] fantasy being a song where I wasn't it. So I didn't go back, I didn't go back into

[00:49:12] the hotel I went back with my husband and I sat outside and had conversation with her

[00:49:16] and I said, you know, just to let you know that you're not bound to you, you can move

[00:49:21] on. And unfortunately you've passed away and you sleep and you might not know that, you know.

[00:49:26] I was hoping I could book the room and just stay in the room overnight but then I didn't

[00:49:31] want to turn it into like a, I don't know, the right thing at the time, I asked myself

[00:49:37] what was the right thing to do and I just thought, just go up to the hotel in the ground

[00:49:43] yourself and just have a conversation with the dad and just say, look, I don't know that

[00:49:47] you've moved on but you are and it's time, you know, you don't have to stay in you,

[00:49:51] find a thing you love once or come for you and I found a left it like that. I thought

[00:49:54] it was the best thing to do.

[00:49:56] Yeah, I think when we can only try to do what's best when it comes to spirits or anything

[00:50:07] otherworldly like that, I don't know what the other side is, I'm never experienced it.

[00:50:13] Like I said, I'm kind of a little thing. So it's like it's hard to give advice or something

[00:50:20] like I can go through and say things here and there but at the end of the day, I don't

[00:50:24] have really any idea of what I'm doing.

[00:50:27] I'm like, you know, people are asking me, oh, where did you train? There isn't any way

[00:50:30] you can go and train. You just, I kind of got through in the deep inside to learn really

[00:50:34] fast and I think I make mistakes, I think it really, really is okay to make mistakes.

[00:50:39] That's how we look. So we get things wrong. That's fine. We've learnt that it's either

[00:50:44] a lesson or a blessing. It's always like that. Things happen when they're supposed to.

[00:50:50] So if you can start to kind of trust your gut feeling, because that's what it's saying

[00:50:54] for, you know, that's what guides us. If you can, like, with me, people say, I don't

[00:50:59] understand how we can be so laid back about things. And I said, because what tries to

[00:51:03] I have, I can sit here and worry about it all day long. It's not going to change anything.

[00:51:07] Things will happen as they should, you know. And I just think each face as you meet, because

[00:51:15] each human is an individual, aren't they? So no places are ever alike. And I just say

[00:51:21] to them, if you think I'm wrong, then you just tell them, I just say, I don't think

[00:51:25] you're right or not, won't I? But if you think that you could do it better than me,

[00:51:28] get to tell them, that's what I need you for, you know, when I work with other investigators,

[00:51:33] feel free to say, no, don't ever think you're wrong. Let me take over an enamel step back

[00:51:36] and you take over, because at the end of the day, what's important to me is the person,

[00:51:40] the witness, and how they carry on going forward, to see if it stays like how hard your house

[00:51:47] is hard to do. You're one of those people who lives in a succession of parts, you have

[00:51:52] to admit that it's probably you, and you'll be attracting your underair, emitting it or

[00:51:58] attracting it in some way. So if we can get you confident with that, billy skills without

[00:52:02] that will change things, why you make it things much easier. They still have to get up in

[00:52:06] the morning, take the children to school and go up to work and pay all of the bills. They

[00:52:11] have to do everything that we have to do in normal life and put up with that as well.

[00:52:16] So that's, it's trying to get them to balance that out and set some real boundaries, because

[00:52:23] we each can do that as an individual. You can set some really clear boundaries, you know,

[00:52:27] and say like, "This is not acceptable to me." I work with a lot of females who have

[00:52:31] small children, and things are happening in the bedroom, and I've said to them, "What

[00:52:37] have you put in place up to now?" and they've said, "Well, I've been in and I've had with

[00:52:40] the word with it." And I've said, "No, that's it. Don't you come in there?" And I said,

[00:52:43] "Well, you've done that intuitively. You don't need me. You're asking me permission

[00:52:48] for you to trust your own gut." Whatever you go, it tells you to do. Try it. And if you

[00:52:52] get it wrong, try something else, you know. That's much better than sitting there feeling

[00:52:56] the health worth. Give that child a control back, paint that bedroom, change it around

[00:53:01] if he wants. I gave my grandson a torch when it was happening to him, and I said to him,

[00:53:06] "Just turn the torch on him. Someone was in your bedroom and he frightened a bit. Put

[00:53:09] the torch on it and tell it to leave." And it wasn't the torch that did the magic as

[00:53:15] he calls it. That is just like Thars Hammer, isn't it? That's just something for your intent.

[00:53:20] What I was teaching him was to say, "This is my room and you're not allowed to come in

[00:53:25] it and you're not allowed to frighten them." Because I needed that as a child. I needed

[00:53:29] my parents to say, "What your experience is real and we don't know what to do and

[00:53:34] we don't know how to help you." That would have been far more intuitive than, "You're

[00:53:38] just naughty. Gold's a bad." We don't believe you. Gold's a bad. You're being dramatic.

[00:53:44] Gold's a bad. Things are crawling out my wall, crawling out of air. And a small child

[00:53:49] has realised terra fun. Absolutely terrifying. And it taught me till I was in my fifties to

[00:53:55] kind of say, "No, that's not fair. I should have been treated differently as a child.

[00:53:59] I wasn't being naughty. It was being terrorised." You know?

[00:54:04] We've had some things here. I actually mentioned it on an episode of The Lair before this

[00:54:12] one does. Just recently, we've had some instances with our two-year-old saying, "Ghost. Ghost."

[00:54:18] That he ghost. I've got him recorded on here too. A couple weeks ago, he was coming to me

[00:54:25] and said, "There's ghost out. Ghost out." He barely talks, but he's playing his day

[00:54:30] saying, "Ghost." Some of the stuff that happened when we first moved in several years ago and

[00:54:37] I went through the house and tried to banish whatever it was. I did it all over again right

[00:54:42] after he started talking about ghost. I went through the whole house against whatever negative

[00:54:45] energies or spirits are here. You're not welcome. I don't want you here. Leave my children alone.

[00:54:50] We haven't really had any instances else. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.

[00:54:57] You did it intuitively. That's exactly what you're supposed to do. The best advice that

[00:55:03] I would give you, if a man you watched any child's bedroom or found a man in there and

[00:55:07] you wouldn't be overjoyed about it, would be you'd treat him very differently. That's

[00:55:11] what you do. If you're just a matter of course, it doesn't matter what you say. You've got

[00:55:16] to mean it. You do not cross this path. Nothing could come into the arm uninvited. Nothing.

[00:55:23] Once we learn that, that's great. We do want to protect the house, just do that in every

[00:55:28] single room. You've already done yourself. Nothing's stronger than you. When it comes

[00:55:33] to protecting your child, the reason nothing out there is stronger than you. Absolutely

[00:55:38] nothing. If he wants to do something, maybe when he's four or five, if he wants to change

[00:55:44] things, I just says, "Can we paint it blue or something? It's your room. This is your

[00:55:50] stage space and you can have it any way you want." Nothing is allowed to come through

[00:55:55] that door. If you do that with him or without him, it doesn't matter. We're just trying

[00:56:01] to teach them that they're in control of the situation. He doesn't sound frightened.

[00:56:08] Which is massive. This could just be his great grandfather or his great-grandmother that's

[00:56:14] just coming to see him because they're attached by in love. That happens. That happens from

[00:56:20] generation to generation. If you're happy with how he feels, and I just think you've

[00:56:25] done what you needed to do, then that's it. If you're sensitive to energy, then why would

[00:56:31] you suddenly not be sensitive to energy? It's in your bloodline and it's probably the

[00:56:37] same for your wife. She'll probably know when you're in a mood without you even telling

[00:56:42] her. She'll probably have to pick up that the kids are poorly, even without them saying

[00:56:46] anything. It's just, we all have these natural inbuilt abilities. We're just taught by society

[00:56:53] to ridicule them and see them as silly, and they're not. They're what kept you alive

[00:56:58] when you were an early man and you looked on this ear before language. That's how weak

[00:57:02] it communicated to you and to you. It's simple and the more you use it, it's like riding

[00:57:09] a bike or learning to fish or learning stuff. You just get better at it. As long as it's

[00:57:15] not taken over your life, there has to be a balance in all things. It has to be time

[00:57:20] when you are not open to spirit or you are not open to doing that. I say, "No, that's

[00:57:25] me doing. I'm done for a week. I need a week off." I just say, "You can't do it every

[00:57:29] day. You're just completely drain your batteries and then you'd be no good to anybody." And

[00:57:33] I learned a long time ago that I can't do it for everybody. I have to teach them the

[00:57:37] tools and make them to do it for themselves. You can't go around and fix things with people.

[00:57:42] But you can say, "Like I said to you, that's exactly what I would have done." I had to

[00:57:47] do that. I had to go into that room and say, "Oh, no. No, I'm not having this." We

[00:57:51] had a lot of time to see at the old house and at the new house, we hadn't had anything.

[00:57:55] But the first week when I moved in I saw a Dutch that I would call a hard way and I think

[00:58:02] I was just stressed from the move. I just went, "Oh, no. We're not putting up with that here."

[00:58:06] We didn't even think about just turning around and walking right back out. I'm not having

[00:58:09] none of it. I've had nothing in the house. Nothing's happened as hell. I've just gone

[00:58:14] through it again. There's just one house where everything's shut down. Because I do it so

[00:58:17] often, this has to be my safe place. Lots of people say, "Oh, can we come and film at

[00:58:25] your house?" I think, "No. No. You film when I'm out. You film when I do investigations.

[00:58:30] You film when I'm on YouTube. You film when I'm on Seabig. My house is my house and I'm

[00:58:37] not doing anything." My husband has the right to that. He has the right to do that. He gives

[00:58:42] up so much of me. When I'm here, I just do ordinary stuff. We set the job for a while.

[00:58:48] I go home, ask for an idea, go on the move. That's my balance. That's my way of re-energizing

[00:58:56] weself. Then I have to jump back in and I have to work again. It's what I do. So, I

[00:59:00] am my living. I make very little money out of it at the point in the home. But I'm rich

[00:59:05] in other ways. I have an amazing network around that. I meet people like you every single

[00:59:11] day. I can sit down and have an ordinary conversation. Me and you could be having a coffee and

[00:59:16] I'm in a cafe and we're talking about subjects that other people see as to big. I want to

[00:59:22] normalize what me and you are doing. I want to be able to just sit down anywhere I want

[00:59:27] with anyone who just say, "Yeah, this happens to me as a child. Have you ever been through

[00:59:32] anything?" They say, "Well, I know." We go somewhere it might be in the UF. We'll

[00:59:36] actually know about Uncle Harry did. I just want to be normal. Honestly, be the same

[00:59:40] for us as it is for people who are just accepted. If you see a spirit or if you see a Victorian

[00:59:48] bike, people just say, "Oh yeah, it's just a Victorian bike." But if you see a seven

[00:59:52] foot creature that's got red eyes and you can swim in that you down the road, that's not

[00:59:56] acceptable. Why? That Victorian Bimer have been showing itself as a boss in the track

[01:00:04] of the U.A. doesn't mean it's a bike. That's what he's showing. Some entities will do

[01:00:08] that. They will be the nicest thing in the world, so they've got you. Then you've got

[01:00:13] the negative energies that will appear as your mouth's shining in thought so that you

[01:00:18] can kind of feed on your energy. I have to work within all of that. You can imagine

[01:00:22] for me when I close things at the end of the day and it's like, "Right, I'm not doing

[01:00:28] anything now for a couple of days. I need to kind of come around from that and then

[01:00:31] I'll start again." That's true. It looks like, "Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy what

[01:00:35] I do because I get to see the positive side of it on the other way."

[01:00:41] There's a lot of people that go into this stuff. Anyone really understands unless they're

[01:00:49] going through it themselves, what it takes to actually do what you do. You're opening

[01:00:56] yourself up for all these different energies by going into and investigating and looking

[01:01:01] into trying to help people you're bringing all of that onto yourself as well. I don't

[01:01:08] think people understand that. There's a lot to it.

[01:01:13] Yeah, there is. I mean, I decased. In September, I went into hospital just for a routine operation

[01:01:21] and as I was in the hospital, somebody ran me an 88-year-old chap and saw something on

[01:01:27] his lap for the first time in his life and he'd get absolutely terrified. He was a complete

[01:01:32] mess and I said to him, "Oh, actually, I'm in your hospital gown, but if you give me

[01:01:35] 10 minutes, sneak out and be kind, that'll bring you."

[01:01:37] That's what I did. I sat in the car and I rang him up and he was absolutely terrified,

[01:01:44] poor, saying, "It was in bed and he'd go in the middle of the night and it's 'cause

[01:01:48] of the bathroom." As he stood up, a typical way of all, if he said it tapped on the window,

[01:01:53] it was something that was the cross between the hand and the foot. He said, "But it looked

[01:01:57] shocked. They were not really frightened to them and obviously it frightened them."

[01:02:02] So I don't want these many people that would've done what I did and just gone, "Right, I'll

[01:02:07] deal with it now," because I'm thinking his 88 is really, really cooler. This is the last

[01:02:13] thing you need to know. I asked him a couple of questions that said, "Don't tell me any

[01:02:19] people. I'm just asking you a few questions for it." One of them I asked was if he was

[01:02:24] a Irish descent and he said that he already was. I asked him what was negative on the land

[01:02:29] and he said that the house next door to the farm. I'd had some really negative things

[01:02:34] that I wanted over the years. Then it was said that several nuns had got impregnated

[01:02:40] in the buried babies on the land. I asked him if he'd been thinking about death and he said

[01:02:46] he had that he'd been to see a solicitor that week, to set up his will and everything and

[01:02:50] he was something that he was worried about. I asked him if was there something he liked

[01:02:56] that he was worried would hold him back when he was crossing over because we are like those

[01:03:00] fears and he said that they was. Then the final question I asked him was what was different

[01:03:05] about that night to all the other 88 years that you've lived there. He said he can't

[01:03:11] manage his dad anymore. His carriage brought his bed downstairs to the lounge in the front

[01:03:16] room. They put air conditioning in an unfortunately not a chance for the curtains back up. He

[01:03:23] was now curtains. I said to him, "All you wanted was the truth and you wanted to know

[01:03:29] if you was going to come back and take it." I said to him, "If you wanted to come back

[01:03:34] and take it, it would put you there and that would." He wouldn't be here yet. He'd just

[01:03:38] be one of the missing. I said, "No, I don't think it's that." I said, "Because you're

[01:03:42] of Irish heritage and you've been thinking about death, this is an old Irish legend really

[01:03:50] that has passediddle to Fandler and it's kind of like the Morrigan and it's this death

[01:03:56] walk for the Carly the Irish death walk. Now that's absolutely terrifying and no, but it

[01:04:01] isn't in that sense. He kind of comes to walk the home so at your darkest moments you're

[01:04:06] mostly pressed or you're mostly ill or when you're about to cross over. If you're worried

[01:04:11] to find that you're going to go to hell because of something you've joined or something like

[01:04:15] that, it's awful soon. You've got a combination of that and this property at the side of them

[01:04:21] that's been used for that's just on it worship. It's all like kind of awful paintings in that.

[01:04:26] Luckily that's being knocked down until we get that's moving off the line, but I was able

[01:04:32] to say to him, "No, I think I'm going to be completely safe." I'm still in contact with

[01:04:35] him, speak to him all over the time and nothing's been sinned and nothing's been at the house

[01:04:41] sin. We've been able to with the help of his carer obviously, we've been able to keep

[01:04:47] things really positive for him and it was a positive experience. Once I explained it

[01:04:51] to him and I said, "I just think this thing's come because you're really, really sick,

[01:04:56] and what?" In a way, I almost saved him because he was that hysterical when I spoke to him,

[01:05:02] and he felt he was better to get the doctor in, which we should do anyway, whether I'm

[01:05:06] doing a paranormal thing or anything. We've got to get the doctor in, he's 88. The doctor

[01:05:11] said, "I think we're running an infection, we need to take you into the hospital." He

[01:05:14] did, he had a urine infection, it made him really, really sick, so I almost know where

[01:05:19] if that event hadn't happened, he wouldn't have got the antibiotic that he needed. We

[01:05:25] can look at it as something that's come to terrify him or we can look at it in the sense

[01:05:29] of, "Was it actually there that now?" He looked shocked at the ear and that's why I

[01:05:34] didn't feel like it was in danger. Did you get what I mean? It was almost like he can

[01:05:38] see it. I think when it comes to the wolf, dogmen, whatever you've mentioned it earlier,

[01:05:47] I do think they have something to do with the other side as in... I don't know if they're

[01:05:52] the protectors of the dead or anything like that, but there's been so many people that

[01:05:57] have said they've seen them around burial sites. I don't know what religion it is and

[01:06:04] I could be completely wrong, but I've heard before that they've had these types of things,

[01:06:07] they were like the guardians of the underworld. Yeah, I see it kind of see like that.

[01:06:14] I don't know where that originated from or where I found it, it's just something that

[01:06:18] I've read somewhere before, but they said that these creatures were originally designed

[01:06:22] to be like the guardians of the underworld. So they're not necessarily evil, they're

[01:06:26] not necessarily good, they're just... They are what they are.

[01:06:31] Yeah, that's the way that I look at our beings. They just are. We just... we've put a human

[01:06:38] connotation on to a cult and that's what we do as human beings, but we're all dealing

[01:06:42] with things, we don't understand, you know? And I think sometimes, dog, I think paranormal

[01:06:47] investigators make it worse. Sometimes I think if they go into a house and they don't,

[01:06:53] there's something they do and at least just suddenly jump to go straight to what I call

[01:06:56] a satanic panic of its redeemer. I think that brings a lot of negative stuff on the

[01:07:02] house. And then that paranormal team packs up all those arms and the family are less

[01:07:06] to have to deal with all of that. You know? So these certain places in the world like

[01:07:10] panic chase in England, where paranormal teams... You've probably got two or three teams every

[01:07:15] night down there, you know? They're kind of selling something or open this dimension

[01:07:18] or that dimension. And then they get in the car and they go out and what's left is all

[01:07:24] the things that frighten them. The locals at the locals are seeing it. So panic chase

[01:07:29] is a 27 mile radius. There's probably 33 cases down there of like werewolves and black-eyed

[01:07:35] kids and all manner of strange things. And I just think there's an ancient site there

[01:07:40] called Castle Ring. He's been there about 800 years. And I think that's the energy source

[01:07:46] but because people have meddled so many times down there. There's like pockets that you

[01:07:51] can walk into that are just awful. Like it's like impresowned, like make you feel sick

[01:07:56] to your stomach or drop CDs and things like that. And people report all manner. They

[01:08:01] report them to the police, they report them to the newspapers in the UK. Well kind of

[01:08:05] strange things happen in there. But I think that's you and intervention and humans doing

[01:08:09] what they don't understand. You know, we don't we'll sort of people don't want to learn

[01:08:16] so you can say to people you do close everything down before you leave don't you? All it's not

[01:08:20] need to do that. Well actually yeah there is. There really is you should be sure you

[01:08:24] know what we've done here tonight. It's over and everything is closed. And then you walk

[01:08:27] away because you just left a big gaping hole in the veil and anything can come true. You

[01:08:32] know and you have no idea if anything is bad, good or indifferent. You know. It was

[01:08:39] the issue, you mentioned it, you took me a long time to learn. I thought I knew everything

[01:08:44] when I was like late teens, early twenties, but like taught me some very valuable. Eventually

[01:08:52] for me, I do my podcast in my house, but I'm trying to yeah, I do move mine out. I don't

[01:08:59] want it to be in the house because I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if I'm not bringing

[01:09:04] in, even though I'm talking to people through Zoom or whatever it is, we end up using. No,

[01:09:11] I know what you mean. I don't know if I'm opening up something to come into my home.

[01:09:15] So as a precautionary thing I'm trying to do it not inside my house anymore. I'm similar,

[01:09:21] but unfortunately financially I'm stuck like that. So I just have this little ceremony

[01:09:25] that I got to myself even before me in you spoke and I just say like whatever I speak

[01:09:29] about now, you should have a private conversation between me and you. And you're not allowed

[01:09:34] to interfere in any way or hang around or any of those things. And I just, I have this

[01:09:39] ritual me where I ground myself. I will finish having a conversation meeting you and I'll

[01:09:43] set my shoes off at my boss on that side on the grass through minute, minute or two.

[01:09:48] And then I'm fine. But that's just my little ritual everybody kind of comes up with their

[01:09:52] own. But I get what you mean when you work in this industry, you don't know what you

[01:09:56] might say. Do your whole and it's just one of those things. And if there's anyone out

[01:10:03] there in the UK that thinks that you need our help or you'd be interested in helping

[01:10:08] other people like police, they'd talk because I think people know of where you are. If you

[01:10:13] got a, don't matter whether you got experiences to me or not. Because it must have liked disability

[01:10:18] wise, I'm not and my mobility is shocked. So I can't do a lot of going around the woods

[01:10:23] down where any of those things I used to do. But I'm really good at putting people in touch

[01:10:28] with each other. So that's what I'm trying to do in a minute. I'm trying to set up some

[01:10:31] support groups online. Because some people really going through it all with the things

[01:10:36] that they're experienced, and they just didn't enough of me for me to deal with all those

[01:10:40] tastes is so blah, blah, blah, blah. I think this year that's where my, the majority or

[01:10:45] my work's going to lie. So if you're out there in the UK or anywhere else in the world and

[01:10:49] you think I can help it anyway, getting such with me, please. And I will give you a link

[01:10:54] running for my link chase or people getting such with me and I can help them out. Yeah,

[01:11:01] I'll include that in the show notes. If you want to shoot me over whatever links you want

[01:11:04] to, and then anyone listening to this episode, they can just go right there and find it.

[01:11:09] Oh well. So is it alright with you? If we kind of wrap things up for this week? Yeah,

[01:11:14] that's fine. Brilliant. It's just, I need to feed me husband.

[01:11:18] No, that's fine. I do appreciate you come on here talking with me. And again, if you want

[01:11:23] to let everyone know where they can find you at. And then.

[01:11:28] Mm hmm. I made the website just put Debbie House. Well, I I've made sure that everything

[01:11:34] is Debbie Hacks, well, BB on investigation. So if you just put that in a new tube, you'll

[01:11:38] find my email address is just Debbie Hacks. Well, let's email calm. And like I say, I

[01:11:46] need that link over and make it easy for you. And if you want me to come back home or you've

[01:11:50] got any questions or anything like that, just shoot them over to Brandon and he'll get in

[01:11:53] touch and let me know. Yep, definitely. Well, Debbie, I appreciate

[01:11:58] you come on here and talk with me. It's been a pleasure. You're very well. Come and

[01:12:02] enjoy it. Hopefully I'll get to chat so you can. Yeah, we'll definitely be in touch.

[01:12:06] Thank you. No, everyone. Goodnight.

[01:12:12] Remember, the truth lies and the stories we share, the connections we make. Stay curious,

[01:12:21] stay open minded. Thank you all for joining us on this journey. And until next time,

[01:12:25] keep questioning, keep seeking and keep exploring the unknown.

[01:12:29] Goodnight, everyone.

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