Tinfoil Talks: Dissecting Dogman with Vic Cundiff

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us, and one of the things I remember the most, where the eyes were glowing red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw Ufo. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw. The top of the muzzle, noose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to a very special episode of ten Foil Tells tonight. I'm going to be joined by the one and only Vic Kundiff or any of you out there listening you might know. Vic is the og of Dogman Podcasting. He created dog Man Encounters Radio. I would say probably over ten years ago now at this point, but Vic is an og in the podcast Realm. He was actually one of the first people that I had shared my experience with so I'm definitely looking forward to talking to Vic. I think it's going to be a great conversation. But before we bring him on, if you've ever had an experience and you would like to be on an episode of ten Foil Teals, there's a couple of things you can do. You can send an email to Tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com, or you can go to tenfoiltales dot com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out and we will get something schedule for a future episode. If you'd like to help the podcast out, please share it a round. Word of mouth is one of the best ways of helping podcast grow. Every time you share the podcast, it's a potential new listener, which could be a potential new guests for the podcast. You can also help out by leaving a five star rating and review wherever you listen to Tenfoil tels at so just make sure to click the five stars and it helps me fight the algorithms. For anyone out there listening, I'm currently working on a documentary called The Mississinamal Triangle. I recently launched a Kickstarter page. I'm not one that ever asked for money or anything like that. But in this instance, I've been asked by a few people about helping the contribute. So far, we're over sixty percent of the way of the budget, So if anyone out there would like to help me reach that goal, help me get this documentary rolling, make sure to find the link for that in the show notes. There is a teaser trailer on there for some of the stuff that we have already filmed. Going to be focusing on all the weird stuff that goes on around here, So if you've listened to the episode of the Missi Cinemal Triangle, it dives into all that stuff, interviewing different eyewitnesses, actually going out to the scenes of where it happened, doing some investigating, find out more about the local legends and lores. Hopefully we make something that is interesting to everyone out there. I do have a pobox and a phone number dedicated directly to the podcast, So if you have anything cool you'd like to send my way, or if you'd like to send a text try and get something schedule that way too, make sure check out the show notes for that. Make sure to follow me around on all the social medias that we are going to go ahead now and bring Vic on and dive into the conversation. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. I'd like to take this time to welcome my guest tonight, mister Vic Kundiff. For anyone out there, you might know Vic from dog Man Encounters Radio and some of the other podcasts he has, but let's give a good welcome here to Vic. Thanks for coming on here and talk to me tonight. Well, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. You were one of the first people that I'd actually talked to about my experience. I spoke to one other show when I first kind of got started, because I was at a convention and I sat down with him in person and I kind of talked a little bit about it. But you were the first person I act reached out to and talked a little bit about what had happened to me and why I do what I do in my experience. So it's an honor to have you on my show now, like a couple of years later, to actually talk to you about it, because again, you're like one of the first podcasts ever really went on. Well, it's an honor to be here, So thanks again for inviting. Me not a problem. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself and how you kind of to me? I say, this is a compliment, right, but like, you're one of the original pioneers of this whole podcasting cryptid realm for me, because you've been doing it for almost ten or more years I think at this point, So what got you into doing the podcast? Plus, like, of all ones to go into, like dog Man, because you're far as I know, is like the first one that kind of started off doing dog man stuff. Well, back in two thousand and seven, a podcast I used to listen to all the time, a Sasquatch specific podcast called Campfirey Shadows. Here was a host named Jim Bear King and then also another gentleman named Sheen McMahon. Sheen at the time was more of a co host than Jim King Bear, as everyone in the crypto community knows him, Bear was actually the host. Well, Bear has always been much more drawn to the woods than ever trying to do things like hosting a podcast. So after hosting that show for maybe a year or two, I think he kind of got tired of it and wanted to get his freedom back. The freedom he had when he could actually just head into the woods at pretty much anytime. Well, as he was talking about leaving the show, he brought up the fact that he was going to be looking for someone to replace him. So he was talking on this one particular episode about how he would need to find a replacement soon because he was planning to maybe host one or two more shows and that was it. And when he mentioned that he was gonna throw out some ideas for replacements, the first name you put out there on that episode was my name, And I thought, wow. I was just at that point, just a regular in their chat room listening to their shows on a religious basis. I thought, wow, I don't think I could do that, And I typed in a message in the chat room that fact that I didn't think I could do it, and he said he thought I'd be perfect for it. Well, one thing led to another, and I decided to give it a try. So I wound up being a co host on that show, and Shane he took over the reins of being the actual host, and yeah, the rest is history. I was a cost on that show for about two years, and towards the end of that show, maybe four or five episodes before I actually left the show, Bear came on with Tim Komba Baker and they were talking about this outing they had gone on the weekend p and they were talking about somebody in the group had seen what they called a dogface booger. Well, I knew what a booger was, that's a Southern term for a sasquatch. But a dogface booger, what in the world is that? Well, after the show, I got with them and I found out what they were talking about was a dog man. And I'd never really put any thought into this whole dogma phenomenon before. I think I might have heard about them before that, or maybe I hadn't, But it wasn't long before I started thinking of the fact that if you have a sasquatch encounter that you need help with coming to terms with, you can almost go to your local grocery store and find someone to help you. But if you've had a dog mean the counter that's traumatized, where do you go? Who do you speak with? So I thought, you know what, there was real need here, And years later I put the pieces together to start to put dogmandecounters dot Com online, and then about a year after dog Me Thecounters dot com was online. I heard the first episode of dog Me and the Counter's radio that was in twenty fourteen, so the rest is history. Haven't looked back since then. It's weird to me in the sense of this whole phenomena because I had my experience in two thousand and seven and I had no idea I thought werewolf because I didn't know what a dog man. I'd never heard of that before, and it wasn't up until I think it was twenty twenty. Now i'd seen some stuff on TV where people had talked about having like werewolf encounters or stuff like that. But again, the whole dog man thing wasn't really as mainstream, and I say mainstream loosely, but in the cryptic community it's pretty popular now. But back in those days, like it wasn't really talked about, Like you always heard about Bigfoot, you didn't really hear a whole lot about dog Man. And now it seems like it's a lot more. I don't know, want to say encounters are happening, but like people are talking about them more so, and it's kind of fascinating to me in the sense because like you just mentioned you could always find someone to talk about Bigfoot, because at that point it became so open about it, especially around two thousand. I think it was nine twenty ten when like SaaS or finding Bigfoot was on. So I think that really kind of popular eye. It's the whole Bigfoot aspect to it. But other than that, like this whole dog man thing, a lot of people claim that like this is a new thing. Dog man is a brand new I was like, well, if you go through history, there's been reports of this type of stuff for over a thousand years. It's just a matter of what people want to interpret it as. Like there's been stories of upright walking and canines reported all over the world. So it's just a matter of as a dog man or people call him wearables, a dog man, you know what I mean? Like, oh, no, I agree, I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah. I think in Europe when the legends of were wolves came to be, I think it was just a matter of people actually seeing dog men, and due to their limited understanding of the world, they just saw this bipedal cryptid walking around that looked like a beast, a hominid beast, and they thought, Okay, well, it's got to be a person using black magic to transform into that state. So that's where the whole werewolf idea came around. When these guys look the way they do twenty four seven three sixty. Five, Yeah, that's kind of how I feel about it too. Is I don't this will upset a few people, but when you hear werewolf, I think the term for that is I think it is missed, like a mistaken identity to an extent, because I don't think people are morphing into these things. I think these things are already full form at all times. I'm not one that really believes in the metamorphosis of a person getting in the moonlight turned into this big rabitus werewolf thing. It's that's what the stories claimed years ago. But I think like people were just kind of mistaken about how it worked. I think these things were already out there, like same with a bigfoot. Oh no, I agree. You couldn't agree more. I'm not going to rule out the possibility in this crazy world where we have things like sub atomic particles called quarks that can literally wink in and wink out of existence. If that's possible, and if that actually does definitely happen, which it does, then what is impossible? Nothing's impossible, but yeah, I mean that's one of those things. It's really hard to believe that that's the case. Again, it's possible. I'm not going to rule it out, but yeah, I agree. I think that when people see things that look like dog men or in their minds a werewolf, I think it's just a dog man and that's all there is to it. So that's my two cents on it. Also, once you started looking into these things and talking to people, how's it kind of change your perspective on the whole phenomenon? Well over the years, after talking to a ridiculous number of eyewitnesses, I mean in the thousands of them, thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses. When I started out, I thought, Okay, this definitely has to be a case of flesh and blood creatures out there in the woods trying to scratch out a living. But after you've spoken with so many credible people who report to you about seeing these things, do so many things that can't be explained away by them being flesh and blood creatures. They have to have some kind of ethereal qualities. That's One of the biggest changes in my paradigm regarding dog men that I've experienced over the years the fact that I think there is something else to these guys that makes them quite a bit more than just flesh and blood creatures with no special abilities. If you think about it, how could a very credible eyewitness have a dog mean encounter on vacation in Maine one day, they freak out, understandably, so fly home that night, and then the next morning in Florida, where they live, they got back and they encountered the exact same dog man. You just can't explain that away as being a flesh and blood creature. So when you hear about things like that time after time after time, there's going to come a point where you realize that there has to be some there there. Yeah. I've heard similar stories with people with sasquatch things too, where they claim that they'd seen something and then they've traveled halfway across the country and it's in the window of their camper trailer looking in at them, the same one that they'd seen like a couple of days prior. How do you explain that like it doesn't have up Yeah. I agree, they have to be from the ether or have some sort of ethereal qualities. That's the only way to explain it. Yeah, it's very. It. I try and remain more like grounded on the aspects of a lot of things. But the more I've been digging into this stuff, like, the more you can't stay one hundred percent flesh and blood grounded to a lot of this phenomenon. If it's all what everyone's describing, there's no way a physical flesh and blood creature could just manifest itself instantaneously somewhere else, like you've seen it over here and all of a sudden, now it's like a thousand miles away and hey here I am. Just doesn't work that way. Oh, I agree. Some of the other things they do as well. I mean, there's been very credible eyewitnesses, tons of them, that have reported seeing them cloak just practically disappear or it appeared like they walked into some sort of a portal. So you just keep dismissed that. If it was a case of one or two people saying that sort of thing, that's one thing. But when you've heard it from so many people who obviously are credible people, they're not crazy. They're quite sane, then how can you ignore that you can't. That is the one thing that I can attest to with people is when you actually have an experience and then you sit on it and you rationalize on it for so many years and you try and write it off as something explainable, but there's really no way of actually explaining it. That's like the biggest struggle that I've had is trying to come to terms with what actually went on. And that's why I do what I do because I've been wanting answers. I've been searching for a truth. I want to know what happened. I want to know where this thing really was. That's kind of why I started my show. That's why I talked with you, because you'd interviewed someone from my local town and seen something similar to mine. So like, I've been trying to find people from around my area that have had the same sort of experiences, and I've actually been contacted by several different people now and I'm working on doing a documentary for this area. So for me, it's like it's my next evolution of searching for answers. And a lot of people say, oh, you don't need to go out there and do that. My friend that's helping me film and ask me what we're going to do if we actually find Sometimes like I haven't gotten that far into the plan yet, Like I'm just putting it together. If we go out there, we see something, then also might want to find my proof. But other than that, I don't know what's going to happen afterwards. Well, as long as you go about it the right way, I think you'll be just fine. But there are a lot of sasquad researchers out there, dogman researchers who don't go about it the right way. They just throw caution to the wind and they do all sorts of things where it just seems like they're begging to be armed. I don't know why they do that, but I wish it was a lot more rare of an instance than it is, but it's not, and it just makes you wonder why it's that way, why people do that. I don't really have like like for me, it might sound weird for people listening, but I don't have any expectations of actually seeing something because I'm in the mindset of if you're actually going out looking for something, you're more likely not going to find what you're looking for, especially when it comes to these types of things. I don't want creatures, whatever you want to call them. I feel like they know what you're doing, like even whatever your intent is. Not just dog man, but even like sasquatch or some of these other things. I think they all are have the ability somehow to know what someone's doing. So if they want to show themselves, they might, But a lot of the time I don't think they do unless there's a reason why they do it. I don't think they do it just for the sake of doing I think there's always a purpose as to why they do it. Yeah, that's a really good point. It does seem like they have ability. Sasquatch too. It does seem like both of them have the ability to tell what's on your mind. I don't know how they do that, but if we're talking about ethereal beings, then who knows what the limits of their abilities are. But if you think about the advantage that would give them, it's no wonder it's so hard to catch them unaware and get photos of them and get tangible proof. But if that is a definite quality, they have an ability they have to read what's on your mind, and then they're going to know that you're there in the woods before you do, so they have every advantage. I think that's a the most compelling encounters that I've always heard is when someone that just so happens to come across one. They weren't looking for it. They're just kind of out minding their own business, and they happen to see something that is to me like the most lot Like I guess I don't want to see logical, like the term that I'm looking for. I can't really think about it, but it's basically I feel like it just happened. They weren't searching for it. It's more natural. It was just like they were in their environment here. I am so and I watch a lot of these shows on TV or whatever. They're out looking for bigfoot or anything like that. Very rarely do they ever find anything compelling, at least to me. So I don't expect to go out there and find anything compelling, because again, I think if you're out there looking for these types of things, they kind of already know what you're doing is so they're not going to just present themselves to you. It's almost like you have to be not expecting it. Yeah, it is more impressive when you have someone contact you and tell you about their encounter, someone who wasn't actually looking for a zasquatch or looking for a dog man. But I mean there are credible eyewitnesses too who actually were looking for them. But in the case of finding Bigfoot for examples. I mean when they do that, they do that to film the shows, not actually have encounters. It'd be nice. Their mindset is it'd be nice if we had an encounter. But all of those people know more than enough about sasquatch to realize that when you have a sound man with you, and this person with you, of the lighting specialist, and all these people with you, they know your chances of having an actual experience or nil or almost nil. So they realize that if they really wanted to have good luck, they'd have to go about it a different way. But that's pretty much just for theatrics, of course. But yeah, I mean, no matter how what angle you take trying to have an encounter, I guess you can't rule out the possibility, you know, no matter how you go about. It, right, I say, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. They could be out looking for you, couldn't be out taking your trash out and see something along the edge of the road. You never know, but. You're right for me. It's always interesting though, because I've lived in this same area ever since it happened, and I've never saw anything again. It's been eighteen years now, it'll be eighteen years next month, and I've been searching for it ever since then. And some people say, well, you're crazy, because why do you want to see it? Why do you want to encounter it again. A lot of people like you've asked me before, and I'll bring this up. You asked me how it affected me, and I told you at the time like I didn't have an effect on me. But I got thinking about that because look what I do. I'm doing a show. I'm wanting to go out and film me things. It's brought my curiosity out to where I have to find the answers. And the problem is I kind of accept the fact that I might not ever get that answer. So I think that's the hardest thing for me to chew on, is the fact that I might never know. Well, when you have an experience and encounter with one of these things, talking about sasquatch or dog man. There are so many reasons why it raises so much curiosity and eyewitnesses. I mean, number one, ever since you were a kid, it's been hammered into your head that monsters don't exist. We know all the larger animals that you might find out in the woods or I should say creatures or accurately, that you might find out in the woods and a woods near you. If you're in the woods out west, then you know, depending on the area, you might run into a mule deer, you might run into an elk, or maybe even a moose, or even in Maine you might run into a moose. Or if you're in a different area then okay, well it might run into a mountain lion or a white tail. But when you have an encounter with a sasquatch or a dog man, I mean that just flies in the phase of everything you've ever been taught about how this world works. That I think it knocks you off your your comfort be so much that I mean, it just causes an insatiable curiosity. If they're out there, what else could be out there? And if they're real, which I saw with my own two eyes. I want to know every last thing possible about these things. So I think it's only natural that eyewitnesses wind up having such a hunger to learn more about these guys when they have encounters with them. When you had your experience, you want to talk about that here in a second. Is that kind of what got you into all of this phenomenon in the first place? Oh no, Now I was interested in sasquatch well before that, Yeah, I was. Should I go into it now or yeah, you can go right into Okay, Well, I've had a couple, actually think three four experiences. Now, no definitive class as I can point to you and say, see right there, that's my class A. I can't do that. But I've had I think three four ex experiences that I'm pretty much convinced were sasquatch experiences. The first one happened right around forty five years ago. Forty five ish or so years ago, when I was deer hunting, and I was deer hunting in the middle of nowhere, I mean absolute nowhere. I had a neighbor who he was an outdoorsman in the true essence of the phrase. I mean this guy I used to go down there and sit on that man's couch and listen to him share experience after experience where he'd talk about hunting trips he had taken, and he had gone camping and all these amazing places. And also too, he talk about other people's experiences hunting tigers and all that stuff. Never got tired of it. I just couldn't get enough. Actually, well, there came a day where he said, you know what, you ask all these questions about the outdoors and about hunting, why don't you get your hunter safety your license by taking the hunter safety course. And if you do that, then I'll take you down to the farm with me and we'll head down there the day before opening day of deer season. Then I'll show you the ropes. So I said, okay, well that sounds good, sounds like a plan. So I went and took the hunter safety course and got my license, and before you knew it, it was the day before opening day of season, and just like you promised, we went down to his farm. And when we were pulling in the lane of his farm, you had to drive way back through the woods number one off the highway to even get to the farm. But as we were pretty close to the house on his lane, I looked over to my right and I saw a bay horse, and I loved horses. He knew I loved horses, and I made a comment about that horse, and he said, now watch out, that's red. Stay away from him. He'll kill you. And right about that time, another bay came into view up ahead on the right, and he said, that's and I forgot the horse's name. He said, he's fine. You can pet him if you want. And we kept on going, got to the actual house and got her stuff out and headed in, and it wasn't too long before nightfall at that point, so you know, he shared a few more things with me. He had been schooling me all the while for some time about what to do what not to do when you're out there hunting deer. Well, he gave me a few more tips, and before you knew it, it was time to go to bed. So I headed upstairs into the attic. That's where my bed was, where I was going to sleep, and he went to bed in his bedroom, and then next thing you knew, it was really early the next morning when we were scheduled to wake up. So we woke up I went downstairs after getting dressed, and we had breakfast to light breakfast, and then we got dressed and headed out the door. Well, he told me that the plan was. He said, I'm going to walk you out to a spot that I've already got picked for you, and I'm gonna leave you there at that spot, and then I'm gonna walk a couple of ridges over and just hunt there. I'm gonna hunt there until just before nightfall, and then I'll come back and get you on the way back to the house. So I said, okay, that sounds like a plan. So we walked out the door and we walked and walked and walked through the woods, and this area had big hollows. He'd walk down a huge slope of a hollow, back up the other slope, big slope. Well, we walked over I don't know how many of those hollows, down, up, down, up, until finally got to this one spot in this big hollow, another big hollow, where he said, all right, this is your spot. He said, go and lean up against this tree and remember everything I told you, and right before dark I'll come back and get you on the way back to the house and we'll see how you do. So he left me there and he disappeared over the top of that ridge after walking up the other bank of that hollow. And you know, like he had taught me, I did everything that he told me to do, and be for too long the sun came up because it was dark. It wasn't even dawn yet at that point. Well before too long, the sun came up, and I'm just sitting there, remembering everything he told me, and no sudden movements and all that, and I'm just looking around, just soaking up nature, having a great time. Well, nothing happened, nothing was moving, no squirrels even, it was just dead. Well, if I remember writing, I think sometime maybe a hereafter noonish or so, all of a sudden I heard this loud horse whinny right behind me. It sounded like it was almost right on the other side of this big tree I'm leaning up against. Well, when I heard that whinny, unfortunately, my mind went to that place where it probably shouldn't have gone, but it did. I thought, oh no, it's Red. Red followed us out here, and now he's right behind the tree I'm leaning up again against. Right about that time, I heard this loud horse blow. Well, for anyone who knows horses, they know that. If they know horses well, they understand that horses cannot breathe through their mouth. They can only breathe through their nostrils. That's why you hear horses being so particular about clearing their nostrils, blowing like that gently, because that's the only way that they can breathe. Well, if you spend any time around horses, you've noticed that every once in a while they probably get something crossways and they do a real blow. It's a real loud, concussive blow where they just empty their lungs instantly. It's like a cough almost, Well, because of their lung volume. It's just freaky because it's so loud, it's so concussive. If you're not expecting it, you can it'll make you jump out of your boots. It's that loud. It's that sudden and violent. Well, the sound I heard behind me, that was just feet behind me on the other side of that tree. I'm a big guy, and even at that my lungs aren't even close to having the volume required to make that sound, that concussive sound that I heard behind me. The lungs that I heard attached to whatever creature it was had to have been properly. I'd say one thousand pounder. That literally the size of an average horse to be able to move that much air and be that concussive in the sound that I heard. Well, I looked around the tree to one direction. I think my right was the first direction. I leaned and looked, and then I didn't see anything. I looked the other way around the tree, didn't see anything. Well. Putting two together, the slope of a hollow, of a huge hollow I was in was too sleep. Sleep was too steep for a horse to even think about wanting to traverse number two. There was tons of tree trash. There was over a foot i'd say, of sycamore leaves, oak leaves, all sorts of detrius that would have made it so. I'd hear a horse coming from a mile away, but never heard anything. It was just silent. So when you put two and two together, that's why I think it had to have been a sasquatch. I don't know what else it could have been, but again that's not a class say. I didn't see anything that day. All I can do is just tell you what I experienced. And then there's another time when I was walking way out in the country and about a quarter mile ahead of me. I had walked way out to where I was at the time of the sighting and turned around to head back to the truck. While as I turned around and walked a short distance about a quarter mile up ahead of me, there was this arched bridge that went over this brook I had crossed to get to where I was at at the time. Well, I saw this black figure wasn't really running, it was more of a jog, but I could see its head and shoulders at first as it was on the other side of the arched bridge, and then all of a sudden I could see more and more of it as it was running or jogging up the hump of the bridge and then over the top and then down to my side. Well, the way it was running was weird, the way it was almost plucking its feet off the ground in a strange way. I've never seen any person run that way before. And this individual was jet black. Jet black. He either had a sweatshirt hood pulled up and that's why his head was kind of pointed. But I can't definitively say that it was a sasquatch, a type one sasquatch's head, because I was just too far away to make out the detail enough detail to determine to what it was. There was a green field on either side of me that was about six feet tall, so I was barely able to see over the top of the green field all the way to that bridge where it was running or jogging up and over that arch bridge. But it just its movements just didn't remind me of how I've ever seen a human move So that's why I definitely wonder if that wasn't a sasquatch. Again, I can't say definitively that it was, because i'd be lying. I didn't see enough, but it was definitely a possibility. So that was that experience. And then there was another time I was heading down the country road driving the truck and I looked down for whatever reason, and then I looked back up, and then from right to left I saw what. I just took a double take, and I thought, was that a sasquatch's leg that I saw it disappear behind that tree. There's a big tree up ahead, a catawba. It was probably about one hundred to one hundred and fifty yards up ahead on the left, I saw this figure, what I thought was a figure, disappearing behind that tree. I saw its leg, what I thought was a sasquatch's leg, disappear behind that Cata tree trunk. And it was a big tree too. So as I got far enough up the road to be even with that tree, I'm looking to see. Okay, if it was a sasquatch, is it around still? I didn't see anything, so that could have easily been my eyes playing tricks on me. I don't know, but it's a crazy world, to say the least. Yeah, definitely the one that you saw running up by the bridge. I don't see why a person wouldn't be running up that way and trying to jump over the side of the bridge. Just kind of strange in general. Well, see, that's the thing. I wasn't trying to jump over the side of the bridge. It was an arch bridge, and the way it was running was just, like I said, so weird because of the whale plucking. It would pluck, pluck, pluck, pluck its feet kind of pluck its feet up off the ground in an unnecessary way. There's no need to do that, especially if you're trying to be efficient. I just don't know why whatever the subject was, why it was moving like that. But yeah, it was just as movements were off. It just didn't look right. And considering that, and it was black black, I just and then the shape of the point of its head that could have easily been a sweatshirt hood that a person had pulled up. Just I can't say definitively what it was, but what I witnessed that day just didn't make sense. Yeah, that's the It's interesting when people have these experiences, but it's also more mind boggling because especially when you don't exactly know, so everyone questions what it was. They think they saw something, but without actually knowing. And that's where I think a lot of the struggles come from, is trying to figure out exactly what happened, at least for me, is you're always thinking about it. Oh, definitely. One of the frustrating things about that day was I had that greenfield to block my view. When it was up on the bridge, I could really see all of it pretty much, But after it came up and over on to my side and it was actually on ground level, well, that greenfield blocked pretty much all of it. The subject wasn't very big though, as far as Sasquatch go, if that's what it was. I mean, looking at it compared to the rails on that bridge, it probably wasn't that much taller than I am. It might have been six ' nine ish or something like that, but it wasn't like typical sasquatch size or anything like that. So I don't know. I just don't know. I don't know if they determine. It's all guestimation, but didn't they determine by analyzing like the Patterson Gimblin film, that they thought that that one was only like six and a half feet. That was the initial hypothesis. But later on I watched a show on that that used more recent technology, and their guess was that it was seven feet maybe seven foot six if I remember right. As I know, they've done a lot of new technology where they've slowed it down and they brought up in four K and you can see like the muscle movements and the definitions and stuff. But there's still people out there claim as a man in a suit, but they've never been able to reproduce a suit that looked anything like that one. No, not at all. What I saw though, wasn't all that wide either. It didn't have three foot four foot wide shoulders. Shoulders weren't really that much wider than mine. I'd say, if they were wider, I've got two foot wide shoulders, and its shoulders must have been pretty darn close to that, I'd say. So, I don't know. All I can do is just tell you what I witnessed and experienced and leave the cards ling where they lay. Yep. Which is why I honestly appreciate that, because some people would say, oh, I saw this, but you're not saying you saw a big fud because you're not one hundred percent sure, And a lot of people would just say, oh, yeah, I saw this. So the honesty is the best quality of I think when people talk to other people about what they experience, because if you don't really know, don't say it's something just I saw this. It was weird. I don't really know what it was. Yeah, that's the best way to handle it. Here's a funny other there's another funny twist about that experience. That day, it was too hot, in my opinion, to be wearing a sweatshirt. But this was definitely after the time where it became common for kids to start wearing sweatshirts even when it was hot out. So just because it was it was definitely too warm for me to want want to wear a sweatshirt. That doesn't preclude the chance that it wasn't some big guy that for whatever reason, some young big guy had it in his mind that he wanted to wear a jet black sweatshirt. So you can't rule that out either. My kids today, they are the ones that they don't so much want to wear the things when it's hot out, but they want to wear nothing when it's freezing out here. When it's like nine degrees outside, they'll try and walk outside not wearing a jacket. Yeah, well, what can you see about kids? When I was a kid, I never wanted to wear a jacket when I was hot outside, but anytime it was cool, I always tried to bundle up. So I guess I'm in that generation of being smart. I guess, yeah, I'd say so. Definitely, back to the dog man topics, You've had hundreds and hundreds of interviews at this point. What do you think has drawn more people into this phenomenon because I know before, like, there was no place for people to talk about it. So I kind of think that podcast is what's actually helped make this more of a place where people are more comfortable to talk about it because the taboo and the stigma to it seems to be fading a little bit. Oh, I agree. Yeah, I think there's a normalization to the dogma phenomenon that wasn't there back in the day, and that normalization is why more and more people are coming out. Although there's this idea and it's a canard, it's not accurate. There's this canard out there that more encounters are happening now than we're happening about ten years ago or fifteen while I was back in the game ten years ago and even before that, and there is no ramping up of more encounters hitting my desk today than hit my desk five years ago, ten years ago even so, Yeah, I think it's probably because there are so many more shows out there that produce dog mean and content that people think that their more encounters happening. But yeah, I just haven't noticed any ramping up at all of the number of encounters that are happening. That's what's interesting with me is I don't have a whole lot of dog man stuff on this show, which people find it strange because that's why I do what I do. I was like, yeah, but my show isn't just strictly about dog man Like I want to talk about cryptids, I want to talk about UFO stuff, I want to talk about anything basically, Like anything weird and paranormal otherworldly is what I like to talk about. So for me, I don't seek out, so I let whoever reaches out to me, Like, I'm not out trying to hustle people all the time or anything like that. So for it's I might get a lot of people reaching out with paranormal stuff, or might get an occasional bigfoot stuff, but very rarely have I got anyone with dog man stuff. But you kind of got that one handled. Yeah seems that way. Yeah, some days it'll be so crazy. I have seven or eight brand new eyewitnesses contact me with your encounter, so I've never spoken with before. But yeah, that's definitely not the norm, but it does happen, though. It does. There's definitely a lot of stuff that's going on out there. And I actually had a lady who was local. I had an episode with her a while back. She found me because she heard me on your show. And I've actually had a couple other people reach out to me because of some of the other shows that I've been on that are local, and strangely enough, someone I haven't actually interviewed him or anything about it, but he messaged me and we kind of chitchat it for a little bit. He saw something in the same exact area that I did, so he's not one hundred percent sure what it was. He was had been listening to me talk about it kind of brought all those memories back for him, so it made him more just to reach out and just be like, hey, I saw something too. So that kind of reassures me as like, well, I'm not crazy at least I had a witness with me that's seen it too. But now if I've know several other people in the area that have seen similar things, it makes me feel a little bit better. But it makes me now want to go out and look forward even more. Yeah, you're far from crazy. You saw what you saw and that's all there is to it. It's good you realize that you never asked to have the experience, but it just happened. But yeah, that's the way it is with most of these eyewitnesses. They never asked to have this happen. It's really a shame. It's a negative experience that most of them never asked to have. Number One, But after having it, when they try to reach out to family and friends for help coming to terms with their experiences, they're derided, made fun of, and for a lot of them, they've become the punchline of family get togethers. So it's just really a shame. It is. Yeah, I've always tried to tell people that I don't try and ridicule or judge or pick a party in it, because I know what that's like. It takes someone to actually know and go through the same things to understand what other people could be going through. At least that's how I feel about it. Because you can say you've had experiences in some realm, but unless you've actually kind of like you hear things, you saw some stuff, there's other people out there that don't have any experiences, and I don't see how someone can relate to that because it takes a special type of situation for people to actually relate to it like, I've never been to a war, so I'm not going to tell someone that comes back from a war that has some sort of a I don't want to say PTSD, but basically kind of I'm referring to, go, oh, man, I understand. No, you really don't unless you've been in that situation. And a lot of these people that have these experiences, it is dramatic for them, so it takes someone able to relate to that more so than just be saying, oh, I can relate to it. And there are layers to that. Also, if you talk with an eyewitness who had a dogma and come into their house, which that does happen occasionally, not very often, but it does happen. A person like that, unless they're speaking with another eyewitness who had one come into their house, they can only relate so much with that eyewitness. So there are layers to that. I've heard someone claiming or and I don't remember where this was, but there was one outside their window and it kept tapping on the window and they could hear it and it was speaking to them, and I was like, well, I was kind of hesitant about that, but the more I've listened to it, I've heard this with Bigfoot two. They claim like they have this a lady to mind speak or something. Again, like, I didn't ever experience that, so I really can't relate to that. But it was telling them to let it in. And I'm thinking to myself, if this thing is as big as they're describing, why would it have to have someone let it in. It seems strange. Yeah, that does seem strange, But if you're talking about a creature from the ether that it has to abide by certain special rules, then that would make sense. Then Yeah, it's almost like you have to invite it in. Some people. I've talked with other people and we've related this back to it's almost like the old vampire lore where you have to invite it in. It can't come into your house unless you invite it. And there's been this gets thrown out too much and I'm not trying to sound like other people, but almost like a demonic aspect to it as well, to where you have to invite the demon in. It's almost like if this thing was real. I'm not saying it was an actual dog man, it could have been anything taking that form, but the fact that it was telling them let me in. Just seems very not so much animalistic to me, Like, if it's an actual animal out there prow and if it wanted to get someone, I'd just assume it would just jump through the window and grab it. I'm not going to look at it through the wine that be like, hey, open your window, buddy. So to me that just seems a little weird. Yeah, you raised some really good points. Yeah, if it's a normal flesh and blood creature, it's not going to do anything like that. It's not going to be talking with you number one. But yeah, number two, it's not going to be asking for permission to come in. But there are dogmen that have come into people's houses uninvited, so I don't know how that works. But then again, people ask if they are government creations, And my response to that is, back in eighteen seventy seven, when the first documented sighting happened, the government never had anything approaching the technology to make a dog me in a test tube, But today they definitely do. Does that mean that all dogmen that people see are made in the test tube and a laboratory. No, not by a long shot. Maybe it's a matter of some of the dog men that are out there are naturally occurring, however that might be, and I use the word naturally very loosely. While others were made in the laboratory, and the ones in the lab maybe they have they don't have the ability to mind speak and do all these other things. But the ones that are from the ether, if they are from the ether, somehow they have that ability. It's just so hard to know how all this works. All we can do is guess now. So there's no definitive answers. I think when it comes to these sort of topics. I've talked to certain people that want to say they're experts in certain fields and this and that, and that's fine, But I've always been under the assumption that we really don't have any physical proof. At least not you or I or mainstream public has any definitive proof on Bigfoot or dog Man or anything crypto related. So I don't know how someone can sit there and call themselves an expert without having that physical proof. So when people tell me that, it's kind of my first thing like, oh, okay, and then I'm just I'm a little hesitant about it. But I think there's people who have studied it a lot and have a lot of knowledge, but I don't think they call themselves experts. It's funny you mentioned all that because that right there, the point that you made is about the only definitive thing that you can point to when it comes to dog men or sasquatch, the fact that there aren't in the experts. You have people who think they're experts, and they they claim to be experts, but yeah, there's no such thing. That's what I've told some people, and I think I've made some people mad when I've referenced that, But it's just it's the truth. Until there's physical evidence that can be presented to Joe public out there, no one's going to buy into it. Unless there's some sort of body or science comes out and says this. And I'm not saying that the government or some sort of science don't know that they don't exist, but they're not letting you or I know about it. Oh, no doubt. You know. This is kind of related. What we're talking about right now is kind of related to the topic when it comes to dogmen that sasquatch, surrounding the fact that we don't have any definitive proof proving that they exist well. One of the problems with that is all the bad information that floats around the cryptid community about these guys, especially dog Men. It seems like, I mean, it seems like all that's required for a lot of people in the cryptic community to believe something to be real, to be factual, is just to hear it. It's like the playground. If they hear it, then it must be reality, it must be true. And I hear so many things said about dog Men that are absolutely bunk. But it's one of those things that's just put out there. It's on a heavy rotation. I see it said all over the place in the crypto community. And if it's said, like I said before, if it's put out there, then it must be real, must be reality. Things like that, they just they hinder the ability to prove their existence so much, it really does. My main complaint about that is how it negatively affects the eyewitnesses, though, because I'll here some of this nonsense and become even more frightful about dog men than if they knew the truth and accepted the truth. But I can't blame them. They don't really know what to believe what not to believe. So they're kind of caught in the tailspin. But when I get a chance to talk with them, I make sure they understand that no, that's bunk, this is nonsense, so that it kind of pulls them off the ledge. You take an eyewitness who's already had a very traumatic encounter, so they're naturally going to be on the ledge ready to jump. They listen to some of this bad information that makes dog men seem even more frightening, even more dangerous, and it just it just really comes close to pushing so many of these eyewitnesses over the edge. I just hate that. My biggest pet peeve is people that don't even know they weren't there, but yet they tell someone what they encountered was this, Like, how do you know that's what they saw? Like, I actually just dealt with this again the other day, someone said what happened to me? They wanted me to know that just because I said, there's no bear in Indiana, that's where I live. There's been bear in Michigan. There's been bears reported in like Wisconsin and Ohio and like down to Tennessee and then up into Kentucky. So who's to say that a bear can just wander because they don't know borders. I agree with that statement, But what makes me angry is how can someone tell me that I saw a bear because I know what a bear looks like. I turned around, we went back and another person we've both said it was a can it looked like a large black dog. Well it had to be a bear. Why does it have to be a bear? And then when I said that to the person, I'd just like, I think it's insulting to someone's intelligence that when you tell someone, well, you saw a bear, that they don't know the difference between a dog and a bear. That's and that person got all self righteous and condescending and called me some choice names because I didn't agree with their logic. I mean, how are you going to tell someone what they saw when you weren't even there? Oh, I agree, happens all the time. Yeah, I wish I could say I didn't know about quite a few very well tenured researchers Sasquatch researchers who told eyewitnesses who reported to them that they had a dog mean the counter that these Sasquatch researchers tried to just reassure them, They refuse to believe it could have been a dog man. No, you saw a sasquatch. And they tried to explain why it had to be a sasquatch, even though this eyewitness clearly saw pointed ears and a muzzle and clause and all this. I mean, it's just a shame that they could be so close minded. And then on the other end of this conversation, this part of the conversation, what you went through with that one person trying to tell you that you saw a bear. I mean, there's so many people out there who, unfortunately, they hate the idea of any new thoughts of possibly seeing the world in a different way. If you pose any information that might be taken as trying to explain to them that the world isn't is they believe it to be. The world isn't doesn't operate the way they've been taught their whole life that it does. They really get up in arms about that. I'll bet you that's what you're dealing with that day, when whoever it was was trying to tell you that it was a black beer. Yeah, it happens on Reddit a lot, which anyone that gets on Reddit should already know. That's kind of a cess pool for people being the worst of the Internet. But no, that is one of my biggest pet peeves. So is someone telling an eyewitness of what happened to them wasn't what happened, and they explained to them what actually happened. Well, I'm glad that you were there and saw the whole thing. Like anyone that does that to me, I instantly just shake my head and stop listening because all you're doing you're not helping that person. You're literally just and I think some people may do this intentionally as a way of actually trying to help that person understand, but it doesn't actually help them. It makes them actually feel worse at least I would think, because as much as you're trying to rationalize it, you're basically telling this person that what they saw isn't real, it's not true, this is what happened, and then that person is supposed to be oh, okay and believe it, and it doesn't work that way. That's a good point. Yeah, some of the people who take that angle, they are trying to comfort you. But on the other hand, I think some people that do that, some people who do that are trying to comfort themselves. If you think about it, the world is a much happier and more comfortable place, less frightening place when you don't have things like bipedal keynids running around. So it's understandable why some people would try to convince you, and what they're actually trying to do is convince themselves that you didn't see what you did. Nine hundred percent agree. Well, Vic, we've been going on for almost an hour. I don't want to take too much more of your time, but before we wrap this up, I would like for you to let everyone know where they can find your podcast docs. I know you have more than just the one. I do. Yeah, I've got four podcasts that I produce. One is on a hiatus. I'll get to that in just a moment. But the girl that brought me to the dance is definitely Dogman Encounters. If you want to listen to Dogman Encounters Radio, the best way to listen is via your favorite podcast app, but you can also listen via YouTube if that's your preference. If you want to visit the website for this show and find out everything that I can basically tell you about the show and about Dogmen in a neat package, then please go to Dogmanencounters dot com. As far as my two Sasquatch podcasts that I produce would go, the one that I started airing weekly episodes for in twenty fifteen is Bigfoot I Witness Radio. To find out more about Bigfoot I Witness Radio, please go to Bigfootyewitness dot com. As far as how to listen to Bigfoot I Witness Radio, you can use your favorite podcast app to listen to that show. As well as far as my newer bigfoot podcast would go, that's called My Bigfoot Sighting, And if you want to find out more about that show than please go to my Bigfoot Sighting dot com. You can listen to My Bigfoot Sighting on your favorite podcast app, or if you want to go onto YouTube, there's my Bigfoot Siting YouTube channel. As well as far as the paranormal show that I produce goes, that's the one that's on hiatus. I'm not sure if I'm gonna actually ever start airing new episodes for that or not, but it as of right now, I've kind of got that on pause. You can listen to episodes of My Paranormal Experience using your favorite podcast app or via YouTube. If you want to visit the show's website, then please go to my PA r A e x asn xavier dot com and that's the best way to access all the shows. I'll make sure to have all those in the show notes for you, so for anyone out there listening, they can just go to that and then find you. Thank you, sir, I appreciate it. Not a problem. I appreciate you coming on here and talking with me to night. It's been a pleasure. Oh that goes two ways. It's been fun. Thank you, Thank you. Just remember truth comes at cost. Are you willing to pay the price. I've heard a story be laid last night about something alert along a wood line, huge foot prints, strange lights in the sky. They claim it's nothing. But I know they light it season or lad to lap in my face. But something about this makes me say, what if it's real? What if they knew? What if the answers are coming from you? It's spending story, wasting my time? Hearing boy says, is it all in their minds? They could call me crazy, but I just want some froom. What if it's true? What if it's really? What if it's true? What if? For worlds? Not what we do. Tim for tales, Blend. Me a story that starts where the line is gets what if it's real? What if it's true? The answers are waiting, They're waiting for you. They see a dog man walking, or maybe a'm offman flies. I love the very giants hidden beneath the lies. They say, it's just stories. It's all they believe, the fairy tale sport of things we can't perceive. They want to keep us blindly. They want to break our wheel. But I'm not buying it. I'm not slowing another. Pill for spent poison. The lines were made to what if. The truth could set us free? The aliens sul nose, traveling through time, secret space programs, racing their minds. They call them crazy, but I just need some fruit. What if it's true? What if it's real? What if it's true? What if the worlds not what we do? Tillfoil tells Fullieve. Me in a story that starts where the logic is, what if it's real? What if it's true? Answers are waiting, They're weighing for you. They lie. We all can die. The signs are there if. You open your eyes. Aliens cricked, its demon's ghost, the level them too. What if it's me or what if it's real? What if it's real? What if it's true? What if the world's not? What way to do? Tenfoil tells Bullieve me, a story that starts wear the logic. What if it's read? What if it's true? The answers are waiting, They're waiting for you. It's all in our. Heads, it's all in our binders. These voices can be silenced. The truth must rise. Ten for tell it's pulling me true? What if it's reading? What if it's true?