Ep. 142: Frequency Shift

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw. The top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to tenfoil Tells. I'm your host Brandon Wright. Night's episode. We're going to be joined by my guest Lee thatcher. Lee has had some experiences in life with UFOs and some other things that you wanted to come on here and share with us, So I'm definitely looking forward to talking with him. But before we bring Lee on, if you'd like to be a guest on Tenfoiltels, there's a couple things you can do. You can send an email to Tenfoiltals podcast at gmail dot com, or you can go to tenfoiltals dot com and go to the contact section and send me a message that way. Both ways works. Just make sure to reach out and we'll get something scheduled for a future episode. And just so everyone's aware, I am booked out pretty far, so if you would like to be on an episode, you need to hurry up and try and send something. That way we can get you outed to the schedule. Otherwise it's just going to be continuing to be further and further out before I'm able to get new guests on. If you would like to help the podcast out, please continue to share it around. Word of mouth is the best way of helping the podcast grow. It's been doing that pretty well here lately, so I definitely appreciate everyone out there who's been sharing it. 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There's a little bit of a time difference. I know you're about five hours ahead of me, so trying to work it in here so you're not up untill like early in the morning. But no, I've got a cup of coffee, so I'll be all right. No, I definitely appreciate it. Do you want to let the audience know a little bit about yourself? Yeah? Sure, so my name is Leith Thatcher and it's spelled l E I g H. I'm forty nine. I grew up in South London, where I had my first UFO encounter, which i'll chat about in a minute. I've got two children, twenty five and twenty seven. I'm a landscape gardener. I've been a UFO guest speaker conference. I've done other podcasts and interviews and stuff like that. Living with my partner one years and as Brandon says, it's two thirty in the morning, so I've got a cup of coffee, so I'm going to I'm just gonna I've got a load of notes in front of me because of the the When I usually do this talk, I usually I'm able to just talk without any writing or anything, but because it's so early in the morning, I've had to write everything down. So I grew up in I started off in a place called Addington in Croydon in London in seventy five. And the first a few incidents that happened were when I had a Christening set like a knife, fork and spoon. It wasn't Christian, but it was a gift from a relative. And this cutlery sept like knife, you know, Christening Sept would would just go miss him and go missing for days on end, and it would just turn up on top of the cutter re sept in the drawer. Nobody would know how it had got there. And this was quite a frequent occurrence. And so that was my first kind of introduction if you like to spooky things and go on. I was gonna say, how old were you at that point? So I was. I was a newborn baby, so you know, I was newborn. My parents at the time, like as I was growing up, they would recount these stories of the hell that we lived in. The house was only built in I think the late sixties. I think it was a big council estate. Yeah, they would they would recount these stories of these black balls of light that would dart across the room. They didn't know what they were, whether they were spirits or ghosts whatever. But again you know that. So there was a lot of stories in the neighborhood of with stuff going on in the people's houses. But we moved from there. I moved around quite a lot as a kid, but yeah, we moved from house to house, and by the time I was seven, my parents split up, my dad went his way, and I went with my mum, and then I went back with my dad, and then that was on forward. I've got an older brother and sister, and we'd all be separate over time. And then we moved in with my new stepdad. So I would have been yeah, seven or eight at the time, and he had a son called Darren. Now my stepdad was in the Marines, so there was a lot of He knew a lot about tanks, guns, all this sort of thing. We had a lot of guns in the house, so we knew, you know, we'd go out and shoot and do all that sort of stuff. And one evening we were me and my stepbrother I was ten at the time. We'd gone cycling and it was one afternoon. We were cycling through this playing field and he got off his bike and he said, you know, come and have a look at this. And we both watched this light in the sky. Now again, you know, he grew up knowing all about military aircraft and all stuff like that, so he knew the difference between a plane and a helicopter. And we watched this white light in the sky. So this would have been nineteen eighty five, and I would have been ten. And this white light was then accompanied by a few other lights and it formed what looked like a diamond shape. And then this shape thing whatever it was, lowered itself past the horizon and that was it. That was the end of that sighting. We got an our bikes. We cycled home. But it's stuck in my head. What took me? He said it was a diamond, sheaped, Yeah, it was diamond. It was. It wasn't It was diamond shaped as in there was a top bottom on two sides, and it looked like a diamond, but it would. It was made up of a few lights. From what I can remember, it was just white, so the lights were white. It was late afternoon. There wasn't prison me looking. It wasn't what like a prism like you could see kind of like colors reflecting from it. No, okay, I. Mean it was over and done with relatively quick a couple of couple of minutes I think. We went home and we spoke to our respective parents. My mum was kind of dismissive of it. My stepdad he was the same. And that was it. Thought nothing of it and then and it was a few weeks later I started having quite bad nightmares, and at the time I didn't really think much of it because they were just nightmares to me. But it was a reoccurring nightmare. And the nightmare was I'd be lying flat on a table and there would be these what I would call the little workers, and they didn't speak, and I couldn't see them, but I knew they were there, and I knew that they were talking to each other, but they weren't audibly talking. And then the next part of the nightmare this machine with I always described it as letters and numbers put over the top of each other. Now as an adult, I would say that that was more like a symbol. So these things had this machine had symbols on and I called it a conveyor belt of words, and I would this machine would come towards me with these symbols on, and I'd have to read what was on this machine. And then I'd wake up. And although the actual dream itself there was nothing bad happened, I just knew that it was a terrifying nightmare. And weeks later I'd have the same nightmare. And I had this about four or five times the age of ten. Soon after this, UFO sighting, and I remember the last time I had it. I got out of bed, I ran down the hall to my mum and stepdad's bedroom and I remember looking back and in my head I thought to myself, I hope they don't come for me again. And that was that was the end of that. Never had that dream nightmare ever again. And then so that was that was that episode over done with, and then we moved they split up, excuse me, they split up, and then we moved in with my nw and granddad. We lived there for a couple of years, and then from my dan and Grandad's house, we then moved to Birmingham, England, which is about one hundred and sixty miles away. So in America that's like down the road, whereas in England we would consider that a long way. One hundred and six months. So I used to drive almost one hundred miles to my office for my job last year, so that's not far. Yeah, as I say, in England, yeah, one hundred and sixty miles, two hundred miles is considered like a questionable journeys. Pret So we moved to Birmingham and nothing of any significance happened until I was about fifteen, and I woke up in the living room standing up. Now, I've never slept walked before. I've never slept walked before, never slept work walked afterwards. But I was fifteen and I woke up standing up in the living room and I'd organized these rolls of wallpaper into the shape of what I thought was stonehenge. That was that. So that was that kind of episode. Finished, went back to bed, thought nothing of it. The only reason I mentioned these things is because over time I've spoken to other people that have had UFO and alien encounters, and they've experience very similar things. So whoever's listening to this podcast now who may have had the same experiences, it may strike a chord with them. In ninety four, so I'm kind of going in chronological order. Ninety four, I would have been seventeen. I was at college and I met my partner, Lucy. She was fifteen, I was seventeen, and we started dating and I went to her house one evening and she had a box of photographs and I was just looking through them. They were random photographs of this, that and the other, and I pulled out this one photo and I said to her, what you're doing, you know, what are you doing with this photo? You know, what's the story behind this photo? And she said, oh, I just took it randomly. When I was younger, in the eighties, so she would have been about six or seven. She had like a little camera. She said, I just took a random photo and that's what came out. And I said that this is in the photo was my sister, my aunt, and my nan. So how you know, if you want to go down the road of synchronicities, if you like, that's probably the biggest synchronicity that I've experienced. I don't know if I've explained that story. Well, so if you imagine I've come up from London to Birminghamhich one hundred and sixty miles away, I've met this girl. She's got a photo of my family that she took randomly, and I took the photo back to my family and I said to her, can you just clarify who these people are in the photo? And they all said, you know that she's sister in your art and you're you know, and I told them where the photos come from. And even to this day, we can't quite work out how that actually happened, but we we then moved in together. We finished college, we moved in together, and we moved from flat to flat and house to house, and we kind of bummed around different places and we ended up in this one flat. And it was one evening, so we're talking probably ninety six by now ninety five ninety six. We were I was asleep on the settee and she said that the room had changed frequency. And she said this black while I was asleep, so I didn't witness this. This is Lucy that had witnessed this. This black missed shape just came into the room, moved through the room and then out the other end, and then she said the frequency just went back to normal. It was as if she described it as the room was just changing channel, as if it was like a radio, and. I kind of I don't want to interrupt, but like, yeah, yeah, the frequency part of it, I've always wondered. I mentioned this several different times, like when people see these different shadow figures or anything like that, I've said, maybe they're seeing something from a different plane of existence and of reality. So maybe that she felt the frequency change because maybe it kind of did exist. Thing vibrates at a different frequency than what we were normally seeing. Yeah, I totally get that, totally get that. Yeah. If ever, you speak to anyone that has had UFO encounters, you often find that they will say that there's a change in the kind of atmosphere around them, as if it's like a byproduct of I mean, I'm saying I'm using the term UFO and linking it with this black missed shame thing only because I mean, I'll go on to this later, but I've had other UFO and paranormal anomalies in the homes as we get older, So I'm only linking the two together. As I say, I've got no proof of that there was a UFO above the house at the time. It could have been a ghost, it could have been an alien that could have been an inter dimensional being could I don't know what it was. But then we so we started. I mean, I was always into When I moved to Birmingham, I got really into the subject of UFO's ghosts paranormal and I got quite in depth, went right down the rabbit hole as it were. This is years before the Internet and mobile phones and so it was all books and conferences and things like that. That we used to go to and then we I went on a camping trip with a couple of couple of friends, and I'd had this really vivid dream of standing outside my tent. We'd gone camping in Wales, and the we'd gone, we'd had our fire, we had food, We've gone to bed. But I had this such a vivid I can still see it now, vivid dream standing outside the tent and being made to watch a UFO leave. And then I got back in the tent and went back to sleep. We came back home the next day, all the two days later, whenever it was, and I was chatting to Lucy about it, and I said, you know, I had this weird dream about this UFO. And I was on the phone somebody a bit later on in the evening, and as I mentioned this story, the phone just went completely dead and we couldn't connect the phone again till the next day, and then loose. I mean, this could be coincidence, but I'm just adding it in the whole sort of story anyway. But there are little bits of other things that have happened that I've missed out, but I'm going to concentrate on the you know, the bigger things later. So then Lucy was chatting on the phone to her to a friend of hers, and she said, Lee had this thing happened earlier where he was talking about this UFO store and the phone went dead, and it just happens that the phone went dead again again coincidence with someone listening, you know, we just don't know. So then from so we moved from that flat into the house that we're living in at the moment. The house we're living at the moment. We've been here now for about twenty two years, and this is where we've had the most amount of activity. Now. I grew up going to church. It was never religious, but I was expected to go to church with my nan and my aren't the ones that were in Lucy's photo. I had to go, you know, when I was eight nine ten. Didn't enjoy it, but I kind of got a bit of an understanding about the Bible and stuff like that. When I moved to Birmiham, I kind of got more into the idea of UFOs in the Bible and most importantly the Book of Revelations. And I used to read the Book of Revelations, but you know, page after page offs paid and I used to try and decipher what the book was going on about. But yeah, we I'll get I kind of have to go back towards with different things that have happened, and they'll all link together in it a bit later on. So yeah, So I've got this side of me that he's really interested in, you know, the Bible and UFOs. And we've got we moved into this house that we're in at the moment. So we've got two We've had two children by then, and I was it was when we very first moved in, we had a cat. The cat was scratching at the back door, and Jessica, our eldest daughter, she would have been probably about three, three or four at the time, and she was laughing at the at the cat trying to get in through the She was sort of scratching at the window and I had my hands near behind her. I can't really describe it, but she had her hands beyond on her back, and I was sort of holding her hands at the same time, and I felt as if someone had grabbed my wrist and I looked down and there's no hand there. Jessica's hands were tiny. This felt like a grown adult's hand around my wrist, and then I thought nothing of it. And then about a minute later, Jessica said to me, what was that? I said, what was what? And like I said, she was about foot four or five at the time, and she started rubbing her arm up against the settee and she said, it feels like someone's just run the hand up my arm. I said, well, it wasn't me, and then it twigged, you know, I've just had the same I've just had the same experience. You know, someone's just grabbed my wrist, someone's just touched her arm. There's nobody else with us, so that was a bit of a ghostly encounter. We never got to the bottom of that. But as I say, I used to really, really really study crop circles, religion, and it got to the point where I think it was twenty ten. I'd spent years and years and years really bogged down with trying to understand the UFO phenomena, piecing things together, and at the time twenty twelve was approaching and there was a lot of talk about big things that you know, Earth changes and things like that, and I got to a point where I was so depressed by the whole phenomena that I decided. I woke up one morning with absolute sense of dread and I couldn't shift this feeling of impending doom, and so I got all my books and I got rid of them, got rid of all my books, stopped listening to heavy metal, tried tried being quote unquote normal. And this lasted for about two or three weeks, and I go to work feeling really depressed because I just overdosed really on all things paranormal, and I didn't have any answers. And that's when when twenty twelve approached, that's when things really kicked off for me, because it seemed like, you know, I pushed out, pushed all this stuff away, all the religious stuff that you and the Bible couldn't get my head around what I was trying to achieve from it all. And then it was as if overnight I had this awakening, if you like, and it was as if the paranormal world said, Okay, if you're not going to be on board with us, now, this is my kind of terminology. If you're not going to be on board with us, we're going to show you exactly what we mean. And that's when all sorts of things happened in quite a short kind of space of time, and it was almost as if it was as if a portal had opened up around the house. I was just trying to put my notes. So yeah, it's about twenty twelve. The first thing that happened. I woke up during the night and there was I can only describe it as a jellyfish just coming through into the into the room, and I watched it climb up the wall. I mean, I don't take drugs, never smoke, so I've never had any anything like that. Watch this jellyfish just coming to the room and out through the wall. Next couple of days it was I think it was it would have been early July, I think, and blue sky and we had these planes going over. Now we get a lot of whether whether your listeners believe in them or not, we get a lot of cam trails over here. And the one day twenty twelve, we had a fleet of planes going over I think it was about five or six of them, and they were doing a circle of the city. And as they came overhead, I was in the kitchen and I looked up and I could see them coming over again, and I could see these orbs just appearing in the actual chemtrail itself, and I thought, bloody ell, you know, I haven't seen the UFOs. I was ten orb would appear in the in the contrail, probably say it was the size of a large car, and it would float along with the chemtrail and then it would blink out, and then another one would appear, and I think I counted like five in the space of like ten minutes. And so we were watching these and I called Lucy and I said, come on, have a look at this, and she's you know, we were both watching these orbs, and that was the end of that. And I thought, if I'm seeing these things, you know, if these things are showing themselves again, I'm going to buy myself para binoculars. So I bought a pair of binoculars and I put them. They're still there. They're still by the back door. So I left him by the back door just in case anything else happened. And I've got my binoculars just in case. Now. I said earlier that I'm my landscape gardener. Back then I just used to do or just basic gardening. And at the time I was listening to a lot of podcasts about UFOs and encounters and stuff like that, and there was a guy that it wasn't Stephen Greer, it was some other guy that was going on about C five where you can call these UFOs down and they'll appear to you. And I was listening to this and I thought, I'm sure I could do this. So I was I think it was lunchtime, and I was at the back of one of my customers gardens where I used to work. There a big million pound houses, massive gardens, loads of land in a place called edge Baston, and so I sat at the back of the garden of the customer and I thought, right, I'm going to do what this what this podcast, what the person on this podcast was describing. So you just sit and you meditate and you ask. So that's what I did. So I'm meditating and my customer had gone out to play golf, so I was just sat there in the back of the garden on my own and I was meditating, and in my head I was saying, you know, calling out, you know, with respect, you know, and all that, all that sort of spill. And I started hearing these helicopters and I thought that that's what I'd summoned. I thought it'd summoned the helicopters. So when I walked onto the lawn to see what this helicopter was doing, there was actually an orb the size of a car, a black I described its the pokermon ball. It was kind of gray dark underneath, and then another shade of dark on top. And this was quite a little bit above treetop level above the houses, probably if you're looking at the clock, probably ten o'clock as you're looking up. I don't know what degree that would be. And this ball orb thing was just moving towards me, and there were three military helicopters just circling it. And the whole thing was dangerous because it was above There was a reservoir nearby, Edgebaston Reservoir. There should have been a lot of witnesses to it. I've never never read any accounts other than my own. And this what I described as a Pokemon ball was moving towards me, and these military helicopters were it looked like it was ushering or bullying this ball away, so it couldn't come anywhere near me. So I'm stood there, and of course I didn't take a vote of it. Didn't take a film. I had my phone on me. I don't think I had an Ericsson phone. I don't think that it had a camera on it or any like that, but even if it did, there was no point. I didn't even think to take a photo of it. So once that had finished, that had all moved back into the sky away from where I was, So I understood there, dumb, dumbfounded. So I phoned Lucy up and I said, you know, you'll never guess what I've just seen. I went to explain what I was seeing, and she said, before you go any further, she said, who he's on the phone with you? And I said, there's no one on the phone on my own and she said I can hear voices on the phone and I said no, I'm literally in the in the garden on my own. Again, we don't know who who she was hearing. So that was the next kind of UFO that we saw, or that I saw. So we had the cam trails with the orbs. Then a week later, I've had this helicopter, this orb pokemon board type thing that I, for all intense purposes, summoned out the sky, and then all of a sudden, I start getting these military helicopters flying overhead everywhere, any everywhere I went. Then a few times a day when I went home, they'd be over the house. Befo I went to the shops, you'd have one go over. And this was a just It just got to a point where I was texting Lucy every day saying, there's a third military helicopter. It's gone over, it's a fourth one. I got bored of texting her telling her and man helicopters I was seeing and they were flying relatively quite low. And then so we uh, so's that again. And this is all happening in the summer of twenty twelve. So a couple of nights later, we were we were dancing in the living room, we were having a drink, and we were chatting to somebody on Messenger and they were in America. Now, I used to be part of a crop Circle Facebook group and I'd befriended a few people from that, and this woman was part of that, so we were chatting to her. It was late at night, so if we're say ten o'clock, it would have been probably six o'clock there. So we're dancing around and everything was merry, and we said, you know, she would wrap it up for the night we go to bed. Yeah, yeah, okay, so we agreed we'll go to bed. So we shut everything down. We said goodbye to our friend and we walked into the hallway to go to bed, and there were these two orbs in the in the hallway. Now, these orbs were one was head height, the other one was ankle height, and they were pulsating. One was red, sorry, one was blue, one was orange, and they were I can't I can only describe it as pulsating, like fizzing. They were like fizzing really quickly, pulsating and fizzing, and and I, you know, I knew that we'd had to drink, but we both started and Lucy said, are you looking at this? And I said, yeah, I can see this, and then if they vanished, and then we just went to bed. We didn't think think anything of it. And when we spoke to our friend the next night on from America, I said, I said, oh, you know, we had this experience last night when we went to bed, and she said, she said, when I switched my computer off, she said, I saw an orange or in the in the in the living room. Now, she was, you know, she lived in America. We're in England. So this. I'm not quite sure where the link is with her seeing an orb in her living room and us seeing these flashing orbs in our hallway. Anyway, that was that we put it to put it to one side, and then I was hearing this animal This is all this animal noise was all within the same kind of time frame. I kept hearing this. It sounded like a between a dog and a cat, kind of growling and meowing at the same time, but it was kind of faint, and it was coming from the hall and I kept hearing this every every other night, and I didn't really say much to Lucy about it until she said to me, I keep hearing this noise. And I said, you know, what does it sound like? So she told me that she keeps hearing this animal noise, this between a cat and a dog, growling and meowing at the same time. And I said, well, I keep hearing the same thing. And we couldn't really work out what that was. And we'd gone to the cinema, Lucy and I, and we've got we'd left our youngest daughter. She would have been she would have been about I'm going I say twelve at the time, about twelve ten, between ten and twelve, and she was with a friend, Lucy and I have gone to the cinema and Lucy's phone kept going off while we're at the cinema and I said, to you know, Tony's phone off, you know, watching the film, and she said, it's Nave. Neve's our youngest. She said, it's Knave. She keeps phoning. I'm gonna have to take take this phone call. So she went out and she came back and she said, you're never You're never going to guess what she's just been telling me. And I thought she was going to say she's made a wigie board or something, and she said, no, no, no, She had her in a chick skirt on the settee. Because they can hear this animal in the hallway and it sounds like a cat and a dog, but they can't work out what it is, and they're absolutely terrified. So we had to cut the film short and come home. We kept on hearing it, you know, for weeks on end, and we'd go out into the hall. We still couldn't work out where this thing was coming from. Another night, another afternoon. We were playing badminton on the field and we were we were wrapping it up. At about five six o'clock the sun had gone down, and we both noticed the sky was really weird. There was a grid. You could see a grid, and it was like it was like a ghost, a ghostly grid that was just hovering, like coming in and out of existence, if you like. It was really faint. But now I knew that it wasn't the rays of the sun because we you know, we've we've lived here, we'd lived here enough times to enough years to know what the sun looked like coming down when it was setting. This was a grid high up in the sky, and we were kind of wondering if we it's some kind of portal had opened, and I think things are coming in, things are coming out, things are you know, we'd had this. We've had the orbs that were in the house. We had the orbs that were in the sky above the house. In the chemtrails. We heard these this animal, strange animal thing. And then it kind of came to a bit of a head when I was at I was at the computer desk on the computer and I heard this plant pot before in the hallway in the sorry in the porch, this plant pot just fell randomly, and I looked and in my head it was like a trigger, and the trigger was go outside, you're going to see something now. Right in front of me were my binoculars that i'd bought previously from a couple of weeks ago when we'd seen the the chemtrails. So I took the binoculars. I went outside. Like I said, I was told in my head it was like a telepathic message, whatever you want to call it. So I'm looking up at the sky with the binoculars and I can see this line that So the sky is blue, and there's clouds, you know, faint clouds all the way around, but there's a big patch of blue sky and I'm just looking with the binoculars and I can see this line looks like a little line like way up in the atmosphere, and it's coming down, and obviously as it's coming down, it's getting bigger and bigger. And the only way I could describe it, this thing, whatever it was, was a caterpillar. Now this caterpillar, I call it a caterpillar. It came down and it was just below a cloud level. So I'm not quite sure how high that would be. Anyway, I've got this thing in my binoculars and it's full of filled up the binoculars, you can see everything, every detail. Now, this thing was made up of orbs stuck together and they were red and white. And at the base at the end of the this caterpillar were these two hooks, and the hooks were kind of pivoting. They were moving back like around and the top the caterpillar was like a big ball, but it was in a cup, and the ball itself, the head of this caterpillar thing had horns, and this thing was the head of it. This thing was moving inside what looked like a cup, and it was luminescence. It was glowing from the inside. And it had what looked like protrusion like arms, but like made up of more smaller orbs. And this thing was writhing around and it looked like it looked like a caterpillar court on a on a thread. That's the only way I could describe it. And this thing was writhing around. Now, this was on the fifteenth of July. Fifteenth of July twenty twelve, and Lucy said to me, out of the blue, that was it. I called her and I said, loose, come and have a look at this. So she grabbed the binoculars and she looked at this thing. She said, is it an angel? And I said, I said an angel? You know, I mean we're not religious and never got no interest in religions all right now, or she hasn't anyway, And she said is this an angel? And I said, no, it's not an angel. I said it to me, it looks like a biological UFO. So I called the children. The children looked out of the bedroom window. They've got a better eyesight than I have, so they were looking at it with a naked eye, and they'd obviously said a few choice words. They couldn't understand what this thing was. This lasted for about a minute or two, and then it just rose back up and that was the end of that. And then we came in and except my brain going again, and I thought, I've got to find out what this thing is. And Lucy said, no, just leave it. We don't know what it is. Don't bother with it. She was so dismissive of it. But I was dead certain I needed to find out what this thing was. Trying to do a lot of research. That evening, we were sat watching TV and we had we had a big cabinet, big pine cabinet, and on the cabinet was a fish tank, and on the wall was the mirror, and next to the fish tank was a lamp, and we was watching TV and this stream of light just came out of the lamp. Again, the only way I could describe it when Sally Anne in was it Sallyann or Maryanne in Poltergeist, She's sat watching TV the static and the hand comes out. It was exactly the same as that, but it was just one long stream of light that just came out. Wasn't a ball that separated. It was a stream that came out of the lamp. I sort of described it as a bent piece of copper. And then it went into the mirror. And then Lucy and I just looked at each other and we just thought, yeah, that's fine, that's just another weird thing that's happened. And that was that was kind of like things started to settle down after that. Nothing else happened then, and then it was it was only a few years ago that it just happened to be flicking through a crop circle book I'd got rid of all my books, but I kept a crop circle book and I just happened to be flicking through the crop circle book and I came across this crop circle and it was from nineteen ninety four and it was called the Scorpion crop circle and it would been laid July the fifteenth. Now, if you google on images Scorpion crop circle nineteen ninety four, you'll see the crop circle I'm on about. That is the exact representation of the UFO that I saw in twenty twelve, July fifteenth. What was the date again, July fifteenth of twenty twelve. So that was my sight in the the crop circle appeared in nineteen ninety four, July fifteenth. M hm. So again you've got this synchronicity, you know, you've got you know, I've seen this biological creature thing, and it's a it's an exact copy of a crop circle from ninety four. And it's only tonight, before I started talking to you that it dawned on me. Is this. I always thought when I put the two and two together and the dates were the same, I put two and two together and I thought, okay, so maybe maybe the creature that I saw the biological UFO is are there is the thing that has caused some of the crop circles, because some of the crop circles from ninety four look very similar to the scorpion one that I've just mentioned, and I thought, maybe maybe that's what's creating them. And it's only tonight I wondered, could that UFO that I saw had just taken on that form as a way of falling me? Because I think when you when you delve deep into the UFO field, you see there's a lot of I think there's a lot of deception going on with it, a bit like a bit like the paranorl like when you do a ouiji border a sounce, you never quite know who he's coming through, And I wonder if the UFO phenomena is very similar where it's like like a cat and mouse kind of verty deceptive. Mm hm. When it comes to the whole UFO thing in general, I don't really A lot of the time, I think a lot of the things that people are seeing are us in the sense that some of the craft might be in government military and they're keeping it a secret yep. And then a lot of the time I'm like when people say they see these things and this and that, and I'm like, I don't doubt that you're not seeing things, But I don't know if they're necessarily aliens or extra trail or whatever you want to call it. I don't know if it's that. But lately, with these orbs and these smaller things and some of the things that are doing a lot of the crazy movements, I don't think a human could survive the movements. That's where I start to question, especially the things that you see bleed in and out, like those are almost like the stuff that's coming in and out of our reality. Well, if you think about it, if you remember the story that I said about when we went into the hallway and there were flashing orbs, if you lived in Ireland fifty six years ago, they would be considered fairies. If you lived in Scandinavia, they'd be considered goblins. Because we have a bit more of a understanding of UFOs and stuff like that, we associate it with well I associate it with UFOs, so it's almost like a cultural thing, you know. Although I think there was no form to these orbs, there were pulse eating When you look at pictures of you know, Victorian Victorian pictures of fairies. They often appear to have what looked likes sparkles of light. They often sparkle, and I think I often wonder is are what our ancestors have seen, you know, when they've called them fairies, are they actually part of the UFO phenomena? You know, when you have fairies that take children away? In England, a lot of old houses you'll have a shoe look of an old I think it's I think they used to put a girl's shoe in the wall at the top of the stairs. What that was to do, that was to fall any goblins or sprites into thinking that there was a girl there, because it was often the boys that were taken. This is that this is old English folklore and you can still find these shoes and the stories behind these shoes. People believed, you know, people believed that strongly that their children were going to be taken away by these spirits or these you know, fairies or whatnot. But then if you think about the alien abduction scenario, it all it's almost like the same story but with different characters. You know, the the alien abduction would you'd have these small creatures coming, and you know, this is sort of what people have suggested. Small each's gray's large eyes. They come in, abduct you in your sleep, do experiments with you, and drop you back. It's very much the same as the goblins and fairies that we take children, you know. So what I'm saying is, are we just catching up with what folklore has been telling us all along. I've had conversations with others too, and I've said it multiple times. I think a lot of this stuff is related one way or the other, like when it comes to UFOs, when it comes to Faye, when it comes to even paranormal they're in cryptal things that we're all experiencing. What if it is all connected in the sense that it's all from this different existence that we don't normally see, but that's what comes over into our reality. We're calling them aliens, we're calling them demons, we're calling them whatever. What if it's all one and the scene it's something from a different frequency, a different plane of existence that we can't normally see or interact with. Yeah, my question then would be is it the Is it the individual that is causing these things to be attracted to a home or or is it something else, you know? Is it the person or. I don't know, a lot of people that have experiences seem to have a lot more experiences than the average person. Like if just from doing this show and I've said it, and now that I've said it to me, it's like I kind of go back on it. But originally I always thought when people had all these fantastical stories I saw UFO, Well I also saw this and I've got paranormals. I'm like, well, how is some person having all these experience and it makes no sense? Why would what makes you special? Yeah, And the more and more I've looked into it, there that connection is there? Oh gotcha? Yeah. So, like my perspective has kind of changed in the fact when people say they've had all these experiences, I don't necessarily just write it off because maybe they are having all these experiences. And again, like you said, is it the person? Well, this is what This is why I said to you right at the beginning when we saw this, well, when Lucy saw this black figure come through the come through the room, and she said, the frequency changed. That's why I said earlier on whether there was a UFO around or if there was some kind of interaction that we didn't know about, and that was a byproduct. You know, if you if you take a fighter jet and you and you fly it at the speed of sound or just over the speed of sound, you have a sonic boom. That's a by product of the plane interacting with the atmosphere around. And I wonder if, I wonder if because I mean, I've watched quite quite a lot of most haunted and ghost you know, ghost investigations and things like that, And there was a particular American one years and years ago, and what they realized was that the house that was having all this activity, the house was wired in a particular way where all the wiring was kind of going in a loop. And I know, you know, you have a ring maine for you downstairs and the same upstairs. But the particular way this house was wired meant that they were suggesting that it was almost creating a kind of vortex which was attracting these experiences. So I'm wondering if you know, the propulsion of a craft has the same effect on the atmosphere, which then the byproducts of that is it opens up these kind of portals, rifts in time. If you want to say it and lets these things come through. M It's weird in the last few years, how more and more people are starting to lean this way. And I don't know if it's because of podcasts and people are listening to stuff like this and their minds are more open to it, or are we possibly all just starting to tune in more to that, because I feel like ten years ago, if someone would have said something like this, most people have still thrown you out. It's called you crazy or whatever. But today it's not so out there. When all this happen, And in twenty twelve, I started getting messages from people that did podcasts and who did run UFO groups, and I was asked to be a guest speaker at quite a well known UFO conference in London. So I went and did that, and I always remember the first It was my first proper big talk, if you like, and I think I went into a lot more detail than what I've done tonight. But the one thing I said, and I remember starting it off, and I said, what I'm going to tell you. If somebody told me, I probably wouldn't believe it. That's how I start. I used to start my talks because I think the thing is, I think over the years, people there's more platforms for people to talk, there's more platforms for people to be open, and the more people that do these talks. I mean, the reason why I'm sat up at half three now in the morning is because I want to get my story to other people that may have had similar experiences that can then message me and say, I've had this strange thing happened to me. That's just the same insurance and maybe over time put pieces of the puzzle together. I think there's so many puzzle pieces out there that we're only getting bits and pieces. I listened to some other podcasts and they've said it the same way I just kind of did. We're all fed little pieces, and I think there's a lot of us trying to take these weird pieces and put them together for this big puzzle. Yeah, and we're still missing a lot of the pieces. I think. I think when it comes to maybe the government and what the government know, I would recommend not even bothering to pay attention to what you think the government knows. I would pay more attention to what the average Joe down the street is talking about on these podcasts. That's where I think the phenomena is kind of real. That's where you're going to get the real stories from the problem with you know, the main we have it here on mainstream TV now, where years ago they put a story out on the news and it would always be accompanied with X files music and it wouldn't be taken seriously, whereas now they're kind of almost owning a narrative. So what you'll find is that what you see on the mainstream and what the government tell you is a narrative that they want you to go along with, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the narrative of the individual that's experienced it. And I think, I mean, I've spoken to countless other experiences and their stories are some of them are far more exotic than mine. Some of them are not quite exotic, but they still have the elements of strange things that have happened that need listening to, and you know, with a bit of discernment, piecing together what I was going to say earlier though, when I was talking about the Bible and the Book of Revelations, the one thing I'd come out of this depression, if you like, and it was self induced from you know, over indulgence of you know, the paranormals like that. As I explained earlier. But the one thing that the Eureka moment was. The Book of Revelations is a classic UFO abduction, which I've gone I've done. I did a radio show interview and I had to go back three times. I did it three three weeks, consecutive weeks of about three hours each time to try and explain what my theory was. My theory, as far as I'm concerned, makes total sense. So this, this whole alien abduction inter alien interaction UFO interaction, in my eyes, goes way back throughout history, probably pre It's probably something that we've always had. You know, it's nothing new, it's not from hasn't never started in nineteen forty seven, you know, with Roswell, it was going on thousands of years before that. As far as I'm concerned. If you look into the lore of Europe you mentioned, like the faith, there's been stories long before forty seven. And I don't want to throw in the ancient astronaut theory because it gets tossed around all the time, but I still feel like there is some bit of plausibility to that in the sense of when you look at pyramids and how they were built. I understand they claimed that they were done by slaves and they were being pulled by a pulley system. Yeah, okay, that's whatever they can that. Maybe that's true, But how do you can how did everyone evolve to the point to where there was pyramids and China pyramids and Egypt pyramids in South America around the same time frame. What made everyone start to just start building pyramids? Do you want to hear my theory, my ancient astronaut theory, Sure, right, And I think we're seeing it unfold as we speak. We've seen it unfold now, and I'll explain. My belief is that thousands of years ago, we've had high technology, high you know, advanced civilization. I also believe that we probably managed to go off planet, some of us at least off planet. Now, if you think today, we've got people in remote islands that have barely seen another human, another modern human being, and they still live in as fishermen in huts, and that's their way of believing. They don't even they don't even consider that there's anything other than what their island is gives them. And if you think back to the World War Two. I think it was America stationed a lot of their aircraft in the Philippines, and when the Filipinos saw all these planes, the consensus was that they thought that they were gods. So then when the war was over and all these planes left, they they wanted the gods to come back. So they saw the American airplanes has been piloted by the gods, and it's what's known as a cargo cult. And I believe that world at the moment, we've got Elon Musk, that is, you know, doing these space walks and wanting to put humans on Mars. If you think how we've evolved over just one hundred years, you know, if you think where are we going to be in fifty years, We're still going to have people in the Amazon that are using bows and arrows to hunt. They're still going to be making wicker baskets, while people like billionaires are walking on Mars in these million pound spacesuits. So did you see the discrepancy between They're the same race of human being, but they're miles apart in their technology. Right, So you imagine people that have traveled to Mars via Elon Musk billionaires that have traveled to Mars. They're not necessarily farmers. They're not necessarily people that know how to work the land. Now, imagine if the world was obliterated by a comet, and let's say ninety percent of the planet was wiped out, and all that's left is remnants of what was there before. But yet the people that had moved to Mars fifty years before come back, they would be considered gods. Now if the people from Mars, which aren't Martians, they're from Earth, but they just moved to Mars that have come back to get more supplies or you know, and they find that the Earth's been obliterated by some comet or a flood or whatever, and they find all the basic humans that are just scavengers. Now those scavengers will see these people coming in from the sky and they will think that they're the savior. Now it's human ego to use that for your own advantage. So my opinion is that that scenario that I've just explained happened tens of thousands of years ago and will probably happen again. So the UFOs that we see today may not be from another planet, but actually from ow, they could quite well be our ancestors that have moved off planet from an earlier catastrophe. It's just that's just my kind of theory. I've heard something similar to it, and honestly, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, but I only start to wonder. And this is where it goes back to when people say they've been abducted, when they always the descriptions that they give of what they see. But when you hear people talking about the Nords, the Platians pleading what everyone is pronounce the man they're described like us. Yeah. So that's why I struggle with it because obviously I don't know. But you hear your grades, you hear your reptili, and you hear your insectoid like there's all these different sort of races out there supposedly mm hm. So does that mean that those who are also two or we that's from the That's where I don't know, and I don't think anyone really does. But although my sort of story, if you like, lends itself to a possible alien abduction scenario with the you know, the little workers, THEO I've never I will never ever say that that's what happened that I was abducted. I won't ever because there's no proof. The whole abduction thing could quite well be a psychological story, could be something that is inherent in all of us and just comes out through the dream state when certain chemicals are released into the body during sleep. You know that that's another possibility. The only problem with that theory is that you have people that have physical and multiple witnesses to things that have happened that you know, people that are you know, your classic Betty and Barney Hill that are out in the car, that are out in a car you know they're driving, and they both witness the same thing. I actually had an interview with someone that mentioned that, and not to sound I know everyone construes things as racism or whatever, but they claim in that interview that if you ever notice, you don't hear very many African American people being abducted. Yeah, that is the one time that that has been documented. You don't ever hear about it that often. And I was thinking, I was like, you know what, that's kind of true. I haven't really heard for many like any actual mainstream I don't almost to say mainstream, but like more known cases of that, like Barney seems to be the only one that I can think of. And I don't know if that is because we're hearing America. We only think about it here. Like obviously, there's a lot of people around the planet, so it's narrow minded to say that doesn't happen, you know what I mean. But just for like cases I've actually heard about, I haven't heard anything about anyone else, at least in around America that's happened to. Now that you've just mentioned that. Like I said, I've listened to count this podcast of interviews with people that have claimed to be abducted and had the UFA encounters. Now that you've just mentioned that they're all white people, I can't think of any black men, men or woman that I've ever listened to. It's always been Is that because they they haven't come forward yet, or is that just the demographic of the UFO encounter. Which is weird in it itself as to why they would only want white people, you know what I mean? Like that doesn't make any sense to me either, Like I look at it in the sense of what we do now. Imagine if you're out on a boat and you're trying to tag a shark, well they're gonna do They're going to tag it pulled up there, they look at it and inspect, and then they release it. We do that with almost every sort of animal. So if these beans are actual beings kind of in the same sense of what they're doing with us, maybe they're picking us up, checking us out, tagging us, releasing us, and see what we go on and do. Now you've heard the horror stories of where they do the hibernation or the all that other like taking babies or whatever for god knows what reasons, And I'm not saying I don't believe in any of that. I don't really know. I've never experienced this. I don't rule anything out, but I can't understand why they would need us to do that. Unless this kind of goes back to what you were saying originally that maybe we're actually offshoots from them. Maybe they are us that has evolved in space differently. Maybe I don't, like I said, I just just spitball here. But for me, when it comes to all that stuff, it's like, where does this What is the point? I guess? And then when you look into the fact that it's only seems to be white people being abducted, and a lot of the time it's the people that have the same blood type. I think it's type O negative blood type. It seems to be a real common trait between people that get abducted, the RH negative. That seems to be. I think they seem to have the higher percentage of abductees or so called abducteas, they tend to have the RH negative blood. It's peculiar in the sense because even when I talked to another guest that brought this up, and I've, like I said, this is my way of putting pieces of puzzle together by talking to different people. But I've when it comes to cattle mutilations, they think that they use the cattle, the things they cut out of them, they're using those to grow fetuses. And I thought about the fact that all this blood type is a universal blood type for humans. So maybe they need those people's DNA and their blood to bring these hybrids. Maybe that's how they go about doing that's why to take these certain people, because they can do that. And if they're using the cattle to embryo, create whatever, to incubate these babies, these hybrid babies, maybe that's what all this is for. But again, what is the point? Like, what are these using all these hybrids for? If you so, I wrote, I've written two UFO books. One of them is about my experiences. The other one is the link between the Book of Revelations and the alien abduction thing. The one thing that you notice in the Book of Revelations is that it's the return of these gods that come and make the world a better place, shall we say? And if you look, if you read David Jacob's work he used to do. I don't know if he still does it. I think he's probably in his eighties now. He used to do a lot of regression therapy for abductees in the late eighties. And I read his book Secret Life. I think I've still got it back in the early nineties, and all the accounts that he uncovered the hybrid He uncovered this whole hybridization program where these women were being impregnated and then they'd carry but the child for something like three months, and then suddenly they the woman would not be pregnant anymore, but the fetus would have been taken. And I think you just mentioned that you spoke to another woman. Was somebody else about this scenario and I think I listened to this. I listened to that podcast last week and it was the name Elizabeth. That was Laura. But yeah, David, if you read David Jaco's work Secret Life, he describes how these people, these women go under hypnotic regression. They take in their regression, they're taken onto these ships and the hybrids that they see are in these cryogenic chambers, these you know tubes if you like. So the womb you know, the cattle mutilation thing and using the wombs of a cattle, I'm not sure if that if there's any correlation with that I've heard. I've heard a few stories about cattle mutilations. Again, back in it was big in like the eighties and nineties, yea, in England we had it where they you know, cattle would be just dissected, blood taken, eyes, everything taken surgically like laser precision. I'm sure that I listened to a podcast about it, about an expert in the field, and I think the consensus was that it was almost there wasn't any real point to it other than to prove that they had the technology to do it, and that was kind of like the start and finish of it. There wasn't any much There wasn't much of a point to it. I think weird though, that they would just do it just to do it, and like, hey, look we can do that. Why don't we to just show up down here and prove that you exist? Don't Well, it would be the secret of that, and that concert doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But I don't. I mean, look at the crop circle, right, you know, I know, I know kind of second third hand people that are supposedly involved in creating the crop circles. But then when you look at them, the crop circles, and you see how quickly they're made and how intricate they are, it does kind of make you think, well, after thirty forty years of these being made, surely someone somewhere would know the secret. There's some intricate the ones that I've seen that just seems to be impossible in my opinion, for someone to go out there and doing a matter of a couple hours. And again, I guess it's cool that you did that and that people are making them like you made this. Like at the end of the day, no one's going to know, so what's the point. That's when I go back to with a lot of things, always try and figure out, like what is the point why there's people doing what they're doing. Yeah, there is one. There is a crop circle that is that was an advertised It was an advertisement, But a lot of people don't realize that it was an advertisement. It was obviously circular, and it had what looked like like like a marijuana leaf in the middle and all these symbols on the outside of this crop circle. And I know for the fact that that was from that was an advertisement from a glass a bond company that commissioned it, that commissioned this crop circle. But again, people people will believe what they want to believe, even if you tell them it's like it. I'll tell you a quick story. When I was in this Crop Circles group years and years ago, there's all sorts of things that people were believing and stories that were being shared, and I said to them, look, I said, I'll show you how easy it is to manipulate people. And I got this picture of the three pyramids and I in photoshop really quickly, but three beams of light coming from each tip of the pyramids, and I posted it on this group and I said, you know, there you go. That's how easy it is. People started commenting on it, saying, see, I told you that the pyramids have these energy beams, and I said, well, I said, no, hold on, I said, I'm telling you that I created that picture, and they said, well, no, I don't. I don't believe you that this looks real to me. And I just thought, I'm telling you that I created it, and you're still not believing that I created it, And it was just it was quite a quite an eye opener to what people will believe, right, what people want to believe, regardless of the facts. I think people are just they're hold on to that hope so much, to their beliefs that they're real. And then I think we'd mentioned this off air. When I get photos of stuff that I don't I don't see things that people are saying that they see, and they get mad at me over it because I don't see what they're saying. They're seeing it like you're crushing their whole belief So instead of seeing it as well, maybe that's not real, and they're like what, they blame the other people for not being able to accept it, and they want to believe it so much that they manifested in their own mind. They really are seeing what they're seeing and the rest of us don't see it. Then, if you think about it, it's the same with any education. You know, if you're if you're an archaeologist or a scientist, or you're a religious person. You know, you think of how many gods there are in how many different religions. You try and tell each one of these religions, the people that follow these religions that they're all wrong because they all believe in that something different, So they can't all be right, so they must all be wrong. That's how wars are created. You know, if you have if you have, science is another religion as far as I'm concerned. You know, science will not look into certain paranormal things because it can't be a lot of paranormal things can't be replicated, so they're not interested because that's not science. That doesn't mean say that these things don't exist or they don't carry on, it's just that science won't touch them because they have their own set of rules that they adhere to. Archaeology, that's the same same sort of thing. You know, archaeologists will swear blind that, like say, going back to the Pyramids, the pyramids that are built for as a tomb, and they were built in twenty years or something. And then you know, you do the maths on how many blocks are there in each one, and it works out that you'd have to be quarrying each block, cutting it, shaping it, and moving into place I think once every two minutes if you go along with what archaeologists tell you. You know, but yet you get people like Graham Hancock that come along and give them a bit more of a a different perspective. They're not interested, you know. They they vilified his netflix work because it went against the the doctrines that they were trying to hold hold up. Like I said, it's the same with religion, so with the UFO field, it's no different. You know, people people want to believe because they do believe. They believe that there is something other than what is out what is They believe that there are you know, more civilizations out there, which is fine, that's but there's no rule proof of it. You can believe it as much as you like, but there's no proof. There's no proof that there's life on other planets. We can only presume that you know these ships that we're seeing, these strange craft and strange creatures, well, they must come from another planet, because that's what we believe, that's what we've been led to believe. I had someone trying to I don't know if troll is the proper term, but I'd made a post recently and someone commented on there that this is all fake, nothing, real, bunch of bullshit. Their picture and if I guess, I'm kind of a creep, but like they were a super religious person, so I commented back, being a little heard that I can be. I find it very discrediting that someone that is believes in the existence of a religion a deity. I don't know how properly, I don't know the exact way I worded it, but basically I find it strange that someone that believes in non improve of all deities. It's criticizing what other people claim the experience because you're saying it's fake, there's no proof, there's nothing exists, but yet you're believing in religion that also has no proof. Explain that, and then he never responded. I'm like it, well, why are you coming out here to talk shit? To me and then can bag up a legitimate question. The only thing that I will call out are CGI videos, right, there's a lot of if you work with CGI, if you work with Adobe after effects, you become very CGI then becomes very clear when you see it. And it's the same with AI. You know, I can pick out an AI picture very quickly. Other people can't. And you know, you'll get into these frack cars with people because they're hell bent on withholding that this picture is real and I'm saying to them, it's not real because it's AI. You can tell that it's AI, and they're no, no, no, it's not your your working. I've been told that I worked for the government because it's good too, because you kind of just you just have a little bit more knowledge about something and people don't want to look stupid. I've got a Facebook a uf it's called UFO Discussion Group and I set it up set it up about ten twelve years ago when I had all these things happen, and I only set it up really for other experiences, and there was about three hundred people on there for quite a few years, and I only wanted people on there that were that had a store or to tell them. And then I started getting this influx of people that wanted to join the group, so I thought, okay, I'll open it up to other people. And there was one guy on there who dismissed everything, and I kept getting messages from the other people in the group saying, why haven't you kicked this guy out? Why are you letting him say that this is all rubbish? And I said, I'm keeping this person on. I said, because we need people like this to challenge what we believe. If you're not challenged by a belief, then you're just you're You're then in an echo chamber where you're just surrounded by yes people but just agree with you, and there's nothing outside of that to say, well what about this and what about that? And I don't believe this and I don't believe that. And I said, I welcome that. I welcome people that are going to challenge the UFO society because there are a lot of fake videos, there's a lot of odd stories and I'm going to sneeze, and I just think that, you know, we need, you know, respectful people that are going to challenge the narrative. If you like, they're going to challenge what's being said, and they're going to challenge a theory on UFOs, and they're going to challenge me on my beliefs, and I totally welcome that because I haven't got the answer, and I'm quite happy to change my mind if it's if I hear something that is, you know, worthy of taken on board, then I'll do that and it may be a little bit of information that shifts my perspective a little bit, and I'm happy to do that. Yeah. Like I said, I'm not against anyone or anything, and I'm open minded to a lot of stuff. But I don't like when people just randomly started attacking other people because they have a different set of ideas or beliefs. I just just to put just to finish what I was saying, I deally I did. I did delete him in the end, because he did get a bit too, I'm surety, And I thought, I've given you the benefit of the doubt, you know, to catch on for quite a number of years, you know, he was he was always popping up on the discussions and he's always throwing like a spanner in the works. And eventually I thought, do you know what, actually you're you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. So yeah, I agree, I agree with you there. I feel like you mentioned something early. I kind of said something off here, but someone you'd mentioned that you're a government plant been accused. I was too recently because my profile picture is when I was at the Indie Popcorn for the Podcast Awards. Oh yeah yeah, And because it says Cohn in the background, that is what the subliminal messaging was that I was putting out there everyone that I'm in just a con artist, as like I'm a con arst of what oh Christ. So I was getting attacked about that, and that's the I was like, okay, I just deleted block people. I don't even care. So you know, I said, I live in Birmingham. So in Birmingham, the main symbol, if you like, for Birmingham is the ball because we have what's called the bull Ring, which is back in prety two hundred years ago, before we had a proper city, it was just all farmlands and the ball Ring was where people would come and bring their livestock to trade and sell whatnot. So the ball Ring became a symbol of Birmingham. So of course Birmingham is the home to Black Sabbath. Obviously Ozzy Osborne, Judas Priest, loads of heavy metal bands and Ledlin all that. So the ball they made this this, they made this giant ball made of mechanical parts and they named him Ozsi. Okay, so we've got this giant ball made of metal called and he's got red eyes. Now, we had the Olympic and not the what's it called the Commonwealth Games a couple of years ago and the opening ceremony had this ball, had the ball come out and he had his red eyes. And you know the amount of people that commented on Facebook that were saying how it was a Satanic ritual and how the ball is representative of I think it was bal you know, this demon that eats children and this sort of thing. And I had to explain to them it's a heritage symbol of farmland and they wouldn't have it. No, no, no no. And you know, if people want to if people want to see something evil in something, they've only got to see something red and they're like, oh no, that's that's that's you know, that's a plant that is that's subliminal, you know, like your the con thing in your picture. Yes, people people. The thing is people love something to have a go at, They love to be that. A lot of people feel, especially in the kind of pseudo spiritual world UFO world, they like they like there to be an enemy. They want there to be an enemy. It's like when you're when you're a child and you want to be rebellious. You know, you'll rebel about your rebel against anything. And I think it's the same in you know this, you know the spiritual world and you know the truth seeker world. They want something to take a pop up, they want something, they want any they need an enemy, so they'll find they will find that enemy somewhere. They have to make something just in order to have something to be against and understand the mentality. But that just seems to be how it is. Yeah, And the problem that people like myself have is that when you're trying to explaining this to people, you then become the target and you then get accused of working for the elite and you're one of them, and it's like a circus. I've realized in the last two years of actually being involved in these communities, and I'm not even involved. I'm just a guy that talks to people every now and then. But I see it from the outside looking in, it is nothing but a giant shit show. Yeah, yeah, I see nothing but drama. I see nothing but people backstabbing, arguing, fighting. Everyone has their own truth, and if you don't agree to that it's the truth when they're in then you're an enemy. And I don't know. Sometimes I question why I bother. I guess I question the everything else too, So I even question my own sanity sometimes of why I continue to do what I do. But here I am. I think you're doing a good job. I appreciate that. Yeah, I think you're doing a good job. And the thing is, I mean you're you're going to get people, Like I said, you're off there. You know, for every one hundred people that you interview, there's going to be someone that's going to strike a chord that's going to shift your perspective, you know, in a different direction, which will make your question, you know even more. You know, the more answers you get, the more quite what's the phrase, The more answers you get, the more questions. Yeah, basically, the more answers that I've been looking for, the more questions. I come out with, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I've said that. At time or two. I was like, I started the one to find answers and I've been left with more questions than anything. Yeah, it is. And it's like what I said to you, you know, I mean, there's there's loads of little stories that I didn't add in this this talk that we're having lots of little things where like, for instance, when when I decide, there's quite a few times over the past sort of fifteen twenty years that I've come away from the UFO community and I've just wanted to live a normal life and just you know, watch crap TV and just listen to just ship music and just be quote unquote normal and just do normal things. And within a week or two shift in my brain pattern something. I'll have some kind of experience where I'll see something or something will happen that will draw me back in and it's as if they say, uhh, you're not going anywhere, not until you've done what. The other thing that I failed to mention is when I was a kid growing up, I always felt as if I had a mission to do something within the UFO world. And I think the more people you talk to that are experiences if you like, you'll find that they all have a mission. They feel that they have a mission to accomplish. And I feel like my mission was to do with the Bible and the UFO connection, and so I've done that, and it's like now I don't need to I don't need that validation. I don't need to see UFOs. I don't need to I don't need to have that interaction anymore. You know, I know a lot of people that they're still chasing, you know, this thing. They're still you know, doing the C five protocols. You know, they're going out and they're trying as hard as they can to capture that elusive, you know, flashing light in the sky. I just hope they're not paying ten thousand dollars for dinner with Steven Greer. No, I'm pretty sure I said that on the last episode I recorded. To the people that I know, I don't think they have ten ten ten pounds to spend on on anything, let alone ten grand that again, you know, if you if you're I used to run a remote viewing group as well a number of years ago, and I think we paid that I charged. I think it was I think four or five pounds, because what happened was we started to get odd bods that would just sort of rock up and wouldn't be wouldn't want to be part of the group, but they'll be part of the group, but they didn't know what the group was about. And we thought, right, we need to have some kind of you know, we need to charge people and minimal amount, just you know, just to show that we're doing something legitimate that isn't just. A people are what sorry, kind of weeding out the ones that aren't really there to learn anything or try anything. They're just there to be there exactly. Yeah, and I think that was that was a fair I mean that that money just went back into buying paper and pens and stuff like that, and petrol to go home. Yeah, we have been going on for almost two hours, so it is probably getting close to four thirty your time. It's ten past four now. I'm wide awake. I'm getting tired, I have working on. I've gone past that. I've gone past that stage and i've gone past the stage out. Yeah, I'm going to keep you awake. Now. You can try, but I've got I've got little kids. I'd rather do with here soon. My son is very much a daddy's boy, so when he wakes up in the middle of the night, I am the person that he screams for. So it's going to be it's got to be what eleven? Now were your is it? Yeah? It says it's a eleven twelve pm. Yeah, I'm usually in bed by eleven. Yeah, I'm usually bed by eleven. But yeah, so i gotta get up and get it. I'm up in about five hours from now, five to six hours from now, I'm usually I'm awake. But honestly, he decides to wake up, usually around midnight for some reason, he wants to get up out of his room, and I have to go get him and bring him into bed. So by the time I get in there, it will probably start screaming for me. That's how my routine goes with him. But we can probably go ahead and wrap this one up if there's not much else you want to talk about. If there is, I mean, I'm good to go. It's it's not I mean, I could I could fill in a lot of blanks, but I think you know, if your listeners want to get in touch and you know, find out any any any more about little bits that I've missed, or if they want, if they've got stories that they want to tell me that I can kind of piece together if they're similar to my experiences, you know, And feel. Free if you want send me any links or anything you have, or email address or however they can get ahold of the I'll make sure you leave that in the show notes. That way, anyone listening can reach out to you. Well. If I mean, like I said, my name is Leath Thatcher spelled l E I g H. If you just see some long haired guy m h, you won't you won't go far wrong. It's a girl spelling as well, so there's not many leath Archers with the Uh yeah, you'll find me if you just type my name. Hi, Hollie. It's been a pleasure talking with you. Yeah, it's been really good. Thanks for having me. On, Brandon, not a problem. And for anyone out there listening, just want to have to say thanks to Lee and thanks for listening. But we're gonna head on out, So good night, everybody, good night, and that's the show everyone. I really hope you guys enjoyed the conversations. If you would like to be a guest on Tenfoil Tels. Remember to send an email to Tenfoil Tales Podcast at gmail dot com or go to the contact section of tenfoiltal dot com. Just get your message to me. We'll get some schedule for a future episode. And just remember the truth lies, and the stories we share, the connections we make. Stay curiously open minded. Thank you all for joining us on this journey, and until next time, keep questioning, keep seeking, and keep exploring the unknown. Goodnight, everyone says. Sounds in the headstones. Yeah, it's turns to run. Got a story about a cryptic creature. Let's take a walk, big foot talk. Then they're out there in the dark. But the truth is out there liking me. It's bark. Ufo sightings. Got the whole world show conspiracies and folds like a story in the book me Control trying to keep us by. We're all gonna use the whole mind in history. They don't want us to know the secrets they hide since they want show, so they don't society. They keep us in chase when them in Talma's time to break the reins. Mh is control trying to keep us fine, But I'm alone. Before we're gonna use my mind. In history. They want us to know the secrets they hide, since they will show the Mayd a society. They keep us in chase. When sam In talk, do sound to break the reins