Ep. 215: Mysteries of Time & Space

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't deal with that. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me. Away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most, where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw. The top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes as soon as I made eye contact this thing and don't like death. Welcome back to ten Foil Tells. I'm your host, Brandon Tonight. We are joined by my guest Tim, Tim. Thanks for coming here and talking with me. Hey, my pleasure. Brandon. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself? Oh wow, Uh, you know it's it's like we were saying before we started recording. Uh, I'm an author, researcher, investigator of the world of the weird, and uh probably over the years there isn't much that I haven't written or looked into when it comes to this kind of stuff, and it's just it's just always has been fascinating to me, all of it, you know, ghost cryptis, UFOs, uh, you know at uh you know at one point conspiracies too. But you know, I've that's not quite as much fun as it used to be, unfortunately. You know, with a lot of people that I'm sure who's been on your show, they'll say that they got their start when they were a kid. It was like that somewhat with me, though, I was kind of drug kicking and screaming into it. When I was in third grade, a teacher would assign us a news item every week. Each kid would get a different headline, and then we'd have to do a report on it, and then at the beginning of the week we'd have to do a present day, you know, talk about it in front of the class. One time, I got a story about flying saucers, and I have to admit, I don't think that I knew very much about flight saucers at the time. Really wasn't interested, you know, grew up in Indiana. I was more interested in the Indy five hundred and basketball and things like that. But after I gave this report, I was then branded as the the guy who believes in flying saucers and the little green men from ours and and then it it's duck to me, even though I tried to get rid of it. But what was interesting is that people would come to you, you know, they you know, make fun of you when you're in a group of things, but then they'd come to you as an individual and they'd say, you know, I don't believe in this kind of stuff. But and then they'd proceed to tell me a story about you know, their family saw a UFO well on vacation, or their ted grandma keeps appearing at the foot of their bed at night. And it was those kind of stories, you know, these personal stories that that really got me interested in this stuff, you know, I mean, these were people who weren't interested in telling anybody else, but they thought that maybe I would have a sympathetic gear or maybe even you know, tell them what was going on that, you know, and you know, it's it's it's been like that then for the rest of my life. You know, I still have lots of people who will come to tell me their stories, not for me to write about it or anything like that. They prefer most of the time that I don't. But for most people who have no knowledge about this kind of stuff, and you know, they have a weird experience and they don't know how to how to deal with that, how to categorize that in their brain. We all go through our lives doing our everyday things. You know, you get up, have breakfast, drive to work, come home, eat dinner, go to bed, and that if something weird happens you're driving to work and a UFO lands in front of you and little guys come out and collect dirt and rocks and get back in and flies away. For a lot of people, it's like, where do I put that? How do I categorize that I'm crazy? That sort of thing. So when they come and tell me these stories, a lot of them just want to reassurance that they're not crazy, that other people have had these same kind of experiences, and you can oftentimes see like the weight of the world lift it off of their shoulders because they know they're not alone. And to me, it's these individual stories that are fascinating, and it's what really constantly confirms to me that there are strains things going on in our reality that we can't explain, maybe never will. And that's just infinitely fascinating to me. Out of all the things that you've researched, what are, like what you said, the most fascinating. What is something about that that stands out to you Why it's so fascinating just the unknown? Yeah, it's well, you know, I mean I love a mystery first of all, and uh uh, and the world is full of mysteries, and that's you know, there are these the people who are debunkers, not so much skeptics. I'm a skeptic you have to be, but there are they are the debunkers who just believe that there is that everything is explainable and quotation works about that around that, and that there's a you know, there's a there's a common answer, you know, to a lot of these things, and there's no mystery in the world. And I think that's just really a sad way to live your life, you know, thinking that that that this is it, this is all there is. And I suppose some people take comfort in that thought, but not me. You know. I like to think of how big and vast and known the universe is and and again it's just it's just so fascinating to me. And so you have, you know, ghosts and UFOs and encryptids, and just when you think that you know, maybe there's an answer to it, that it shifts gears and goes in a completely different direction. You have to start all over again. And it's it's frustrating, but it's fun, you know, it's it's just so much fun. And it it it keeps my brain constantly working and keeps. Me when it comes to cryptis with you being from Indiana, I was going to ask, what is your take on a lot of the weird stuff that goes on around this state? Not just here, but there's been like a lot of weird stuff here and I know a lot of people have been reporting bigfoot stuff more towards southern Indiana. What is your opinion on bigfoot? Well with and you're right, I mean, and Indiana is isn't alone. There have been big foot type creatures seen in every state with the exception of Hawaii. Right, Why is the only one the only one? And you know Indiana has had big foot sightings, I mean all over the place, not just in the now, just in the southern part. I know that in I think around nineteen seventy seven something like that, at the town that I grew up in, which was north of Indianapolis, as you know, a little poduct town, had just in a matter of a couple of weeks a couple of bigfoot sidings. And it's you know, it's flat cornfields out and there, yet you know, people see them, uh Cocomo Cocomo, Indiana in the early seventies around there and around the reservoir up there. I can't remember what the name of it is now. Yeah, yeah, had a series of bigfoot sidings and so I mean, I'm not going to sit here and try to offer some kind of explanation what I think they are. Uh. It could be that there is a physical hominid species that still exists in in uh North and maybe even South America and the other continents. But I wonder sometimes, due to the fact that bigfoot has been seen in almost all the states, if there isn't some kind of paranormal aspect to it as well, because there's lots and lots of sightings of bigfoot that will turn a corner and be gone and just vanish when you know, seconds later the witnesses get there, and you know, it's awful hard to hide an eight to ten foot giant. So and as well, there's been associations of bigfoot scene with UFOs, right, so you know, it's it could be an aspect where there are some physical creatures that still exists, but then there is a paranormal aspect to it that mimics them some you know, somewhat kind of the same way that you know, you have supernatural mimics of people, you know, the same thing with like the lake monsters. Now, there are some lakes like Lake Champlain or lack Nests that are big enough to actually hide actual physical creatures, but then there's been a lot of sightings in lakes that there'd be no way, you know. Some of them are reservoirs that are only you know, twenty years old that has continuous sightings of of monsters like monsters. So you know, again, I I just I can't pin it down whether or not we're dealing with actual physical creatures or something interdimensional, paranormal whatever. As I get older, I'm leaning more and more towards that this is a paranormal type of phenomena. But like I said previously before I started ranting here, that people are seeing something. People have these experiences, and some of them can be discounted as you know, bears or you know, just a shadows in the trees or things like that, but there are a lot that I'm positive that people did see something, and that's again that's the mystery, what do they see? That's my stance on it, too, is people are actually seeing something, and what if that's something is I have no idea, but I don't think everyone's making it up. I don't think it's all misidentification, and I don't think it's all schizophrenia. But I don't know what it could be because I'm friends with people that are one hundred percent non believers. I'm friends with people that are in the flesh and blood camp for like a Bigfoot, and then there's a lot of people that are more of a paranormal and you add the WU factor into it, with the UFOs and other things too. Like I used to just think it was a hominid, but anymore I don't, just because I feel like there, if it is a real thing, there's a lot of unexplainable stuff that doesn't seem to be just another normal animal. Well, and you know, not only do you have bigfoot sightings, but I mean you have all kinds of of other, right, really bizarre encryptid sightings, you know, through through you know, I'll just stick to the to the United State, but I mean all over the world you've got some bizarre things. But you know, I mean you've you've got like the mothman and and pterodactyl sightings, and and people who swear that they have seen actual dinosaurs, you know, especially out in the Southwest, and you have in places like Tennessee and Pennsylvania, you know, like the screaming monkeys or the killer kangaroos, kryptis like that, and and and again. As far as we know, there is no historical record for creatures like this ever living, but people are seeing them, and these things leave physical traces, oftentimes the mutilated bodies of livestock. So there's some kind of reality to the albeit it may just be temporary, uh, but they they do seem to have a tendency to make an appearance for a while people see them, uh, and then they vanish again. You know, it's almost like they just stepped into the shadows and dissolved back into wherever they came from. I actually had someone on a while back that he had photos of footprints, and this was out around Sedona area. But the footprints, it wasn't just bigfoot tracks he was finding. He was finding what looked like dinosaur tracks, like actual soropods, like the big long neck type dinosaur footprints, and they were like more rounded and they left deep impressions into the ground. How do you explain that, Like, yeah, exactly, it doesn't make any sense, Like, yeah, i'meh, the guess could go out there and be making a hoax, But of what value is that to put random footprints in the middle of nowhere just hoping that someone happens to walk by and see it. It seems like a lot of effort to go and build something like that just to potentially screw with somebody. Well that's what I've often wondered, whether there's been accusations of hoaxes with these kind of things. It's just like, you know, unless you're somebody that just gets some kind of weird thrill fooling people and then just sits around, you know, secretly in their living room, you know, chuckling to themselves. For the rest of their lives. How they pulled it over on someone, which you know, I mean there are individuals who do that, But like you said, to go out in the middle of nowhere leave footprints hoping that somebody will someday run across them. That doesn't make sense. You know, if you're going to do that, you're going to do it someplace where there's some other you know, foot traffic, and someone's going to run across it. Right. That rare. That rarely happens. You know. Most of the time, these mysterious footprints are found out, you know, out in the middle of nowhere, and you know, like you said, you know, I mean just they spent all kinds. I mean, I remember in the especially in the seventies, there was a there was a spate of bigfoot sightings leaving three toed footprints. The it would look humid till you got to the toes and then there would just be three of them. And you don't hear that too much anymore. I just always found that interesting, how it this was something that occurred for a significant amount of time, enough for researchers like myself to make a note of it, and then that's it. They don't make a real you know, they don't make a appearance. Wasn't there something around Florida, like I think it's Florida or Georgia somewhere like they called it the lizard man. Didn't also have like three toes at at one point? Yes, oh, yes, exactly exactly. And that's you know, three toes is either reptilian or bird in nature. You know, I have I have a friend who you know, speculated that the that the seventies Bigfoot weren't you know, mammals, but there were some kind of reptile you know, they only superficially look like like a mammal. So that's it's it. I mean, you know, you could speculate endlessly, you know, to to you're blue in the face. But unless you get some kind of physical evidence and anymore, it's going to have to be a body of some kind because there have been you know, hair samples and scat even skin tissue samples that have been found over the years, and you know, they may make a bit, they may make a splash for a while, but then they just kind of disappear the attention to them. So you know, you can take photographs and videos all you want, we need a body. I don't know if we're going to get that body, just because I doubt it. This might be conspiracy around here, but I feel like if they are a real bean, I feel I believe someone has to know something about it. I don't know who it would be, someone in some sort of powers or whatever, but I feel like someone has to know something. But the fact that we've never had a body makes me lean more skeptical that these things are real in the sense of flesh and blood, because it's rare that you might find bones from a bear or bones from a big cat or something like that. But we know they exist. We've never come across any sort of evidence of any type of cryptid existing that I'm aware of. So it's like, where do they go if they're a flesh and blood creature and then they die, where do the bodies go? And people say, well, they bury their dead. I work in construction, where we dig up roads and we dig up dirt, we make new stuff. At some point if you look at how much everything has been uprooted, like in these cities and stuff, and we keep building and expanding, and we'd have come across something you would think. There was a There was a psychic by the name of Peter Herkos that was a big back in the sixties and seventies, and he was one of these guys that he had been a painter and had an accident and fell off his ladder and fractured his skull, and when he came out of the coma, he allegedly had psychic abilities and spent the rest of his life working with that. And it did seem like that that he did. At one point for a magazine, they went and prepared a series of boxes with things inside of them, and then Herkhs was supposed to touch the box without seeing what was inside, and then right down talk about his oppressions of what he was getting. And somebody had put in it was either a photograph or an actual plaster cast, and they had been a plaster casts of one of those you know, three toed Bigfoot sightings. And when he got a hold of that box, he immediately says, no, this isn't right. He says, this isn't complete. He says, this is something that doesn't exist in our world. It exists in another world, but that it can come into ours temporarily physically, but then after a while it starts to dissolve, it starts to come apart, he said, and then go back to its original world. And again, you know, that was his impression from not seeing the plaster cast, but from just holding the box that the plaster cast was in. He had no idea what it was he was referring to, but I always found that interesting and and and often wonder how close to the truth he you know, he may have came with that, because it does seem to fit with a lot of these cryptid sidings that you have something that that seems to be able to temporarily exist in our world as a physical creature, living creature, but then disappears and goes back to wherever it came from. So you know, I mean it, are there other realities that exist alongside of our own that that its inhabitants at times can can travel into ours? And if that's the case, why can't we do that to theirs? You know, I feel cheated, or you know, you know, and some people have even said that, you know, these things are the result of time slips where you're where they are coming from whatever distant past world that they lived in, temporarily visiting ours and then you know, the time slip ends and they go back. Lots of stories of people who have had time slip experiences, yea, though they seem to be rather short, but that again, those are the people who come back and tell the stories. You know, maybe there are a lot who never made it back. Uh, there are a lot of people disappear. Yeah, yeah, so you know, I mean it, Uh, I don't know, you know, it's uh. And and again it you know, it's it's these it's these these types of mysteries that that that really helped keep me going. And uh because every time every time I set down to start work, something new, you know, comes across to me and I'm like, wow, I didn't know that. Like I said, I mean, I've been doing this. Yeah, I haven't been doing it since I was in third grade, but a lot of years I've been doing this. I think when it comes to stuff like the time slips and everything, I don't know how that. I don't know how that would be feasible. Like the concept of being able to go through time. I understand, like it's a possibility if they can figure it out like mathematically, but it just it makes my brain hurt trying to process how you're able to go from one point to another point in reality and time, because it just seems implausible. I don't know, I feel like we have the ability to change time. Then it's like you make paradoxes, and what happens is I think someone goes back in time and the app to step. On a bug. Well, that bug was supposed to have another bug that had this bug over here that someone bit, and like it sets off a chain reaction, and I just feel like our world would constantly be changing. And that's what people crying to use as an excuse for like the Mandela effects stuff. But it's interesting. I just I can't process. I guess how it could be done without everything being completely screwed up it all the time. There's a great episode of The Simpsons where Omer does that after he fixed the toaster and accidentally created a time machine with it and goes back into prehistoric times and steps on a bug and affects the future, and then he has to keep going back to try to fix what the mistakes that he made. It's just a hilarious episode, but it really does, yeah, go into that that whole idea of the butterfly, the time butterfly effect, and the paradox, the grandfather paradox where you know, the Time Terrible goes back and kills his grandfather and then he can't exist to go back in the past and kill his grandfather, right. So yeah, well, I mean, you know, we just recently a few months ago to put out a book called Weird Time, Exploring the Mysteries of Time and Space that goes into all of these different things about the mysteries of time and time slips and what businesists are currently thinking about about time and how it could operate or even if it does operate, you know, if it's nothing more than just a byproduct of consciousness. But yeah, I mean, I'm I'm with you. I mean, obviously, if if time is not quite as fixed as we currently think it is, then how do you get around that those paradoxes unless now see, recently there's there's been some papers written talking about how no matter what you would do if you did travel into the past, you couldn't change anything you're doing exactly what was supposed to happen to begin with. You know, So no matter what you do when you go if you go back into the past. You're doing what's already happened, and nothing can change that, so there's no paradox, you know. Myself being having a little bit more of a romantic idea about things, I kind of like to think about the the branching off of timelines theory, where if you go into the past and change something, then your timeline is a new branch that branches off from the original, and you can never be part of the one that you originally came from. That's gone for you. You now have to go on the new timeline where the cause and effects of whatever you did is now in play. So you can go back and you know, kill your grandfather and sleep with your grandmother and still go back to the future, it just won't be the future that you originally came from, right. I just always thought that that was that's a fun idea, just you know, really, you know, I mean, a good way to get around the whole paradox thing. But when it comes to time slips anymore, I wonder whether or not instead of going back or forwards, I mean, there there have been time slips stories of people encountering what appears to be future events, whether or not, you know, these people are instead experiencing alternate realities because I do think that there's probably an infinite number of realities that just keep, you know, expanding on every decision that is made by every conscious creature in the universe and wrap your head around that, and some of these realities would have the appearance of our past or our future or something completely different, because there are people who have had these experiences that will go in that will go to places that seem to have no basis in any kind of reality that we know of now in the past or what we think is going to happen in the future. So, you know, again, I wonder whether or not the ability of that that that people either have the ability or there are natural occurrences that will temporarily, you know, open up portals or windows into these other realities. You know. Again, you know, it's it's it's kind of a fun romantic thought to think about. And right now, I mean, our knowledge of our reality in the universe is extremely limited. I mean, you know, our brains find it almost impossible to think beyond our third or three dimensional reality, and we know there's a lot more out there than that. So I think, you know, with with the development of AI that won't have those constraints. We may get a better understanding soon, you know, within our lifetime on the the different realities, the different planes of existence in this universe and others. I think there are a lot of people that probably listen to this show that are afraid of AI. I see you. I see a lot of people that are concerned by I think it's just the suddenness of it. And obviously I grew up in the eighties, so I remember the Terminator and you get all this stuff, and you have again back to the future. You got your time travel that and then with Terminator, he travels back in time to stop the uprising of the machine. So time travel plays a lot into some of the stuff that I grew up on. But we've been warned for all these years, according to the movies. We're telling us not to mess with AI. And here we are, and now everyone's got like these fears of stuff. But I don't know if that's actually something to be concerned with. I know there's probably some bit of concern because as humans, we tend to push those boundaries a lot. So are we going to open up Pandora's Box at some point, it's the possibility, I guess, but I was gonna ask because this is actually something that happened to me yesterday. And do you feel like you get signs from the universe, you know, like if something happens and you see something and something just continues like it you notice it, like it's almost like something trying to tell you something. Yes. Absolutely, A lot of times people will will have syncresy, you know, a meaningful coincidence that to them seems to be signs from the universe. And I mean, I know I've had experiences like that in life, where it's almost like the old say, you know, the old say, you know, the universe is opening the gate for you, and if you're not paying attention, you'll miss it. And so yes, absolutely. You know, my old friend, the late great Timothy Green Beckley, was really interested in events like that, and he had a number of them throughout his life, but they constantly frustrated him though, because a lot of them, to him, didn't really seem to have any meeting. Now, you know, there are people who will have these kind of events where you know, like you said, the universe seems to be talking to you, trying to almost lead you in a direction that you need to go. And like a lot lot of people, Tim Beckley would have these experiences that say, I'm trying to trying to think of one. Oh, he was sitting in a restaurant in Sonoma, New Mexico, and uh Arizonia and they were they were talking about a friend of his who had written a book about synchronicity and meaningful coincidence, and all of a sudden, the door of this restaurant opened and that very guy came in and neither one of them knew And you know, both of these guys were from like New York and lived in New York, and neither of them knew that the other was going to be in this town in this restaurant, and yet hear this guy showed up. So now you know, Tim was like, Okay, this has to mean something. But if it did, nothing ever happened about it, and that's just frustrated him. And so I think that a lot of times with events like this, that people have a tendency to concentrate on that particular event rather than looking at a larger picture that I think is playing out that that is an experience like that is just just one thing of something bigger, and if unless unless you have the training or the discipline to actually try to open your mind up to grasp that bigger picture, a lot of this stuff just kind of becomes static in your life. But again there's kind of a long winded answer to your question. But yeah, oh yeah, I definitely believe that we are all connected to each other, to the universe, to everything. It's like a spider web that connects us all, and that there is this this ripple, these ripples of meaning that is constantly playing out, and we have to be aware and awake enough to notice them and then to use them to our benefit. I think. The universe for Esterraa, I felt I felt like I was trying to kill me. You want to talk, you want to talk about it? Well, yesterday morning we were I was at work and we're doing we're repaving a road and someone decided to go around the flagger and not stop, and they came right at me and then they went around and kept going. I was like, all right, Well, had I took like three or four steps backwards, they'd probably ran me over because I was standing out there because I'm supposed to be in north where we're at But stuff like that happens a lot in general, like for the type of work that we do, so I don't really think much of that. But on my way home, a semi decides to get over. I'm on like the interstate, and I have to hit my brakes because he's getting over right in front of me. He cuts me off, so I have to like rep hit my brakes and I'm hoping I don't get rear ended because we're all going like almost eighty miles an hour on sixty nine. And I turn and i'd come like I'm going home. And then I get on thirty one around Kokomo and there's just a big accident up there and traffic is completely backed up. So I had to go all the way through Cocomo, went over out of my way to go down this other road. I go down that road and it is closed. They've got barricades up that they've taken a bridge out. I messaged my wife was like, I'm not meant to come home today, and I had to back track around, go back. I finally made it home and I had to go up north to pick up our boat. Our boat. We had some work done and it was finished. I went and I picked up the boat, and I'm on my way back. As soon as I hitched up the boat, I'm driving and out in front of me jumps a deer and then it runs along the side of where the bus. Like, man, what is going on today? So I come home with I don't even want to go anywhere at this point because everything that could possibly happen keeps happening. So I was thinking about it. I was like, this is so randomly strange that all of this happens in the same exact day, but nothing actually happened to me, but it's all close potentially devastating things. So I was like, I feel like the universe was like warning me about something. Mm hmmm hmm. Well, and that's uh, that's just the sort of things that that would have frustrated Tim Beckley, you know, because he would have been like you, He's like, Okay, it's it seems beyond coincidence that these events would happen in one day. You know, if it happened during the week, you wouldn't think anything about it. But no, it's it's a cluster effect, almost, isn't it. Yeah, all the few hours. Right right, and so you know, naturally the human brain being being what it is. You're looking for some kind of meaning to that that pattern, because it's obvious that there was a pattern going on there. And now you know, of course, you know, mathematicians would saying, oh, well, you know, I mean, the probability of this could be easily worked out. You know. I was like, but that's not a very satisfying answer. But unfortunately, yeah, it's it's going to be next to impossible to try to discern just exactly if there was meaning to that. But I'm like, you though, you can't help but think that there was, that there was a message being sent here somehow. Yeah, but what is that? What is that message? And how in the hell are we supposed to be able to figure this out exactly? That's the that's the frustrating part, is like, yeah, all these things bad could have happened, they didn't. But what was going on yesterday that all these bad things were happening right around me? Right right? You know what? Why did they happen? If there wasn't some kind of outcome or conclusion? I stopped I stopped to get gas on the way home. Had I not stopped to get gas, but I've been involved in that accident on thirty one to shut the road down. Like, so, it's just so much stuff. I was like, and I was just thinking about it. I was like, how much bad stuff happened yesterday that I avoided somehow mm hmm. Yeah, all those all those different events were enough to slow you down enough to avoid something or not. Yeah, And again, I mean that's that's that's part of that mystery, isn't it that I talked about at the beginning of the show, right that that makes all of this just so interesting because here, here we are talking about this now and going, gee, I wonder why in the universe just laughs and shrugs its shoulder and say you'll never know. That's where I always come back to it is like I I want answers, but I have a feeling the question for answers you walk away with more questions and answers mm hmm. But that's what keeps making me do what I do. Like I said, I'm not a big time researcher or anything. I just like talking with people about it because I enjoy it. It gives me something to I can't have conversations like this with everyday people you know what I mean. I can't go to work and be like talk to people about certain things because it's like, oh, hey, what do you think about Bigfoot? And they're like this guy, this guy's running this job. He's crazy. So exactly exactly. But that's I mean, that's just that. You know, you said you'd like questions answered, but it seems like that the more questions you ask, the more questions different questions appear. And that seems to be really a big part of our our reality. You know that just when you think that you've got all the answers, then suddenly there's new questions and it's never ending. You know, it's it's it's it's it's almost like the Big Bang, and the universe just keeps expanding in the same way with questions and knowledge. It just keeps expanding. Uh, never end, never ending. You know, at least two our three dimensional minds, it's never ending. And that's again I think that's that's the fun of it. That's what makes it all so fascinating. I even questioned the Big Bang because they claim these particles and gases created the combustion, and all of a sudden, the universe is built from an explosion. I was like, well, if there was nothing in existence and howls there particles and gases and these atoms or whatever like, there was nothing, so how could nothing build a universe? So even the Big Bang theory to me is flawed in the sense that it doesn't explain what caused the bang, like what made this stuff to cause the bang? But I just reading a couple articles this week about to the a new idea that that our universe and and the you know, big bang will put that quotation marks uh is in a black hole. That our entire reality is in a black hole in another universe, and that the creation of that black hole, the implosion you know, say it was you know, from a star, was what created the Big bang in the black hole and then created our universe. I was like, that's an interesting concept. And again we're just one universe in other universes, in other black holes. Everything is in a black hole. It's like the old like the old belief that the Earth was flat and rested on the back of a turtle, right and underneath that, underneath that turtle was another turtle, and then it's just turtles all the way down. There are a lot of people. I'm not going to say they believe in the turtle aspect, but they still believe that the Earth is flat. Oh yeah, that is a big proponent in the conspiracy world. And I'll probably get people leaving comments and that I'm a non believer, but. You'll say, hell, yes, I'm an unbeliever. I don't want you. I don't want you to get in bad with some of your your listeners. I just I don't know. There's certain things when it comes to that topic that I do question certain aspects to stuff, But I don't think there's an we'd basically believing in a snow globe like a snow dome, and right, that just doesn't seem plausible unless you believe in the fact that we're not real and then we're all in a simulation, because that's what it may sound like to me, is all simulated mm hmm, or like a video game, which I guess is a possibility. It's I wish I was like a better character in the video game, but it is what it is. But again, you know, if if you were going to to make a simulation of a world or universe, whatever, you know, are you going to limit it to you know, a flat world surrounded by icy walls. When if you've got the processing power, you know, just you know, create a giant, giant world and a giant universe. Maybe you know, you know, maybe they don't have the processing power. You know, maybe if if the flat world exists, it's it's because the simulation we live on is just like a like an eight bit Nintendo. I think some of the stuff that is, the things that they do to debunk the globe, it's they don't consider the fact of how big the Earth actually is. So you might not see a curvature because you have to look at it larger than what they're looking at. M Oh sure, So it's perspective and it's not like the distance doesn't make a whole lot of sense to some people, but for me, it's like they say, every square mile there is like eight inches of elevation of where it should be like curvature, so over so many miles you should see Like herve I was like, yeah, but the Earth is not flat in general in the sense of when you look around, it's not always flat less you're out in a flat desert somewhere, but our area, like there's hills, there's valleys, there's mountains in certain aspects, like in the Midwest, and like down on the Apple Lake, Like there's not a flat plane so that you look out across the ocean, you see the horizon a lot that's flat. It keeps going. Well, theoretically, if it was flat, you should be able to just keep it on scene. You wouldn't see a horizon, it would just keep going. There wouldn't be that cut off point. But I don't like arguing with people, so I just let them believe what they. Want to believe. Well, it seems sometimes that the methods to debunk the idea that we live on a sphere is a lot like some of these attempts to debunk UFO sidings, where the explanations are a lot more complicated then the fact that somebody saw something weird playing around in the sky mm hmm. And it's like that with you know, trying to come up come up with the ways that you know, if if the world is flat, then the sun has to circle, the moon has to you know, gyrate in different directions and stuff, and it's just like, well, that's just so much more complex than probably what's really going on. There are people that believe the Moon isn't even real. Mh. I've always thought that was a funny one. But I'm not a big believer that like that this will be the conspiracy that I'll always take it. But I don't necessarily believe we went to the moon, And at least in those videos. I've always been lear even as a kid, I've always like, I don't know if we actually went to the moon. Maybe we did, but that's just one of those conspiracies that I'm like, em I could see us fake in it, just as so we could beat Russia. Yeah, well I agree. You know, I grew up in the I was a kid in the sixties during Apollo space missions and just you know, really loved and followed everything. So I was very much a space geek. Not so much a you know, like a UFO or ghost geek yet, but definitely you know, like the rocket program and all. And the thing that I always say to people who who made question that Apollo actually made it to the Moon was that you have to remember that the Soviet Union at the time was also trying to get there and were monitoring all of our flights and and and would have known right away that we were faking it and would have told the world no problem. You know. They they had the they had the radio telescopes, and they were they were watching everything, and they you know, they knew from their calculations, you know, where the audio and video signals were coming from. And it wasn't from you know, some secret studio maybe at Area fifty one, but you know, definitely coming from come space. And some people said, well, well, you know, we just launched satellites that we bounced those signals off of to fool everyone. And again it's just like, well, that sounds a lot more complicated, you know than just shooting people up there, you know and bringing them back trying to perpetuate that kind that magnitude of a hoax, with all of these different permeations. You know, it's just after a while, I would think that people would be just like, oh God, this is just I can't. I can't do this any longer. Let's just put them in a tin can and shoot them up there. Yeah. That's that's where I come to when it's like, when it comes to conspiracy stuff, and it's gotten so bad lately. Oh everything is a conspiracy to a lot of people. And I was like I think the conspiracy, to be honest with the conspiracy is there is no conspiracy, but we've conspired to make conspiracies. Like that is how I feel like everyone is literally trying to think everything is such a conspiracy. And I think that is what the conspiracy should be. Is they want everyone to think that's a conspiracy because it throws people off from understanding life. It's like they're too hell bent on thinking everything is something else rather than trying to figure out what it actually is. We're arguing with each other and fighting with each other, and everyone's stuck in their own delusions half the time. So that's that's a very good way of putting it. And I agree, you know, I I I used to be really fascinated, you know, by conspiracy theories and and you know, wrote quite a bit about them. And I mean, and and I'm not dismissing some of them because we know that, you know, consider that there are you know, there's some conspiracies that are real. But like you said, you know now there are news channels and and and political programs that depend on putting these conspiracy theories out there to scare people into believing. Then whatever, you know, a load of of of you know, propaganda, very good, uh that they put out there. So I mean that's that's where you know, you get these these these really crazy ones and that that are coming out and people will believe them. So then when some of these other things are talked about, people then more inclined to believe them. You know, they trust this source. This is a trusted, trusted news source. But it's you know, uh, and you see it on social media a lot now to social media is is you know, I mean when I was a kid, we had like the urban legends, you know, which word of mouth things. Now social media has taken that place and you get these stories, you know, patently ridiculous stories that go from one end of the globe to the other in a matter of minutes. So it's it's no wonder that uh, particularly crazy conspiracy theories have taken off and have taken root. You know, It's just it's it's easy to do, and there are plenty of people willing to believe in it. It fits, you know, it fits their mindset. It was like you said, you know, I mean there are people don't understand how things work, They don't understand why bad things happen or good things happen, So there has to be somebody responsible for you know, there has to be like the secret Coble that is, you know, working against us and causing all of these problems. I think with some of the stuff that gets put out there, I honestly do think it is a way to discredit real conspiracies. They put out some of the most outlandish stuff because if you believe in this and it's straight up craziness, well then this person's talking about something that could be legitimate. Well, you can't listen to that person. They're crazy. They also believe this. It's just like they. Oversaturate the conspiracy world some of the most insane ideas and people start believing that too. So it discredits all of the people that look into conspiracies because you're looped into or you're grouped in with all the other ones that are believe in some of the most screwed up, non untrue conspiracy. Like you said, there are truth to conspiracies, but I don't think everything is a conspiracy. Mhm, oh absolutely, you're absolutely right. Uh. And and this is this has been used in the the UFO world, uh for for for years uh. You you talked about that. It made me immediately think of the Paul Benowitz, right what. I was thinking when you went and you said UFOL, I was thinking of Paul Yeah. Yeah, And it's exactly. I mean, here, this guy, you know, thought that he was seeing uh, strange lights and receiving radio signals from them over the Kirkland Air Base in New Mexico. And this guy was an electronic inventor and actually made electronic devices for the military, and he was concerned. So he notified the Air Force that he thought something weird was going on, and they were like, oh, interesting, you know, come and talk to us about it. And then the next thing you know, there was a Air Force intelligent agents feeding him all kinds of bizarre UFO disinformation that literally ended up driving this Paul Betterwitz crazy. And a lot of the stories that were fed to him still are circulating today. The underground alien bases is a big one that came from the Benowitch affair. The abduction of people or horrible inhuman alien experiments that came from Benowitz, and these are the type of stories that are still circulating. And you know, the reptilian aliens, you know, a lot of those stories came from the Benowitz affairs, and yet there are still people talking about it, especially in the world of politics, that they definitely believe that there are elitist groups on this planet that are they look human, but they're actually you know, reptilians in disguise. I know quite at all people. I know, right, And it's but see, it's been you know before there are people talking about how that the like especially royalty European Royalty, was part of the reptilian agenda. But now it's gotten into American politics where you know, whatever group that you don't like, they're being run by the reptilians. And you know, maybe some of your listeners are like, I've never heard this before, but it's like, yeah, just go and look at the some of these social media accounts of people who believe in this stuff, and you know, you just see the same stories that have been repeated since the late nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties. They just have taken on a life of their own, drive the Wooden stake through their hearts time and time again, and they just keep resurrecting themselves. It seems to be the case with a lot of things. But then even when you went out some of the stuff like this, there are those that tend to believe that the conspiracy mind is saying to them, they've only used Benowitz as a way to discredit the truth, so they're actually feeding him real stuff because it seems ridiculous, and they're saying it's all a hoax and it's not real, even though the information was out there. I've talked to someone before that says they have to let us know. They feed us a little bit of truth right out in the open, but people dismiss it. Sounds like, I mean, I don't know how you have that information. But okay, well it's like it's like you said before that you spread wild stories in order to hide the true stuff. And so I mean, I seriously, I don't think that the government of the military has that much more knowledge about, say, like the UFO phenomenon than the rest of us. You know, they may have some better pictures, you know, some video things like that, but as for the idea that they are in you know, communication with aliens from Zeteraticuli and of sign treaties and stuff like that, I don't think that that is true. You know, it's it's probably just the opposite. I think that they they know that the phenomena is real, but they don't know what it is, where it comes from, and have no way to stop it. And that's the big secrets, yep, that they can't do anything about it. They don't want to seem inferior to something else. Yes, they can't control exactly. If they can't control it, they deny it. I think that's an aspect to a lot of paranormal a lot of cryptids in the UFO. I think it's all connected in one way or another, and especially when it comes to them not omitting to anything, because I don't think they fully understand it. If they can't understand it and they can't control it, they don't want to talk about it. They just don't knowledge it. Mm hm oh yeah yeah, well, I mean, and you see that with with all weird phenomena. You know, you you can't explain it, you don't understand it. It's not real, So just look the just look the other way. You know, you're not even going to discuss it because we know it's not real. That's that's the mindset that you know, we know it's not real. How do you know it's not real. Well it just it can't be real. It doesn't make sense, you know. That's that's rather speechless logic. Yet that's what's being put out all the time, you know about this stuff, and it's to me it's refreshing though that you know, we have a lot more uh scientists and academis nowadays that that seem to be willing to at least look at these things, you know, that have an interest in it, and they're no longer afraid of losing their funding or or peer pressure you know, from their associates on their on their interest. So it's but again I think that they'll soon discover what the rest of us discovered a long time ago, that there's no easy answers. That's whatever is the source or sources of paranormal weird phenomena, and that that includes everything that then, more that we've been talking about on tonight's show is that it cannot be pinned down. It can never be pinned down. It has an almost tricksterish nature to it that it just constantly evades our attempts to dissect it and put it into the little jars on a shelf someplace. And it's just continuously is forever just out of our grasp, and it keeps us moving forward though. That's the thing it keeps yes, yes, exactly, it keeps us driven. We've been going on for a little over an hour, so we can wrap this one up before we do. I know you've written some books and everything, so I'd like for you to let the audience know where they can check those out at. Oh sure, Probably the best way would be to go to Amazon dot com. That's the easiest. Just type in my name Tim R. Schwartz SWU A R t Z, and all of my books that I've written myself, written with other people will come tumbling out for your reading pleasure, both print and ebooks. Some hopefully you can find at a favorite local bookstore or library, but good luck finding those anymore at in a lot of places. But if you do patronize them, please, you know, brick and mortar store is very important. Are Our most recent book I mentioned this earlier is called Weird Time, Exploring the Mysteries of Time and Space, and it's just, uh, I think it's a really thorough examination of a lot of this, just the weird aspects of time, time slips. People who claim that they've invented time machines and and and then like the historical ideas what people used to think about what time was, the gods and goddesses, you know, that were the controllers of time, and as well the more recent scientific research and breakthroughs that at least physicists now are willing to look at time rather than just dismiss it as a philo in nature. Uh but but yeah, that's that's probably the easiest way to go. And you know, if you want to find out more about the time book, Weird time Book at website is Weirdtimebook dot com. Awesome. I'll make sure to include that in the show notes for anyone listening. Well, Tim, it has been a pleasure talking with you. Well, thank you very much. I've I've really enjoyed this. I like you, you know, It's it's it's not very often that you have a chance just to sit down and have an interesting discussion about our favorite topics. No, not at all. That's why I enjoy my show because I get a chance to talk to other like minded people. But on that I appreciate. I'm how gonna say on that note, I will just want to say thank you. Well, thank you. I appreciate you having me on tonight, and I hope your audience enjoyed this as well. You have a good night, Thank you, good night. If you'd like to be a guest on Tenfoil Tells, remember to send an email to Tenfoil Telles podcast at gmail dot com or go to Tinfoil Tales dot com and go to the contact section. Make sure to follow me around on all the social media's and just remember truth comes at a cost. Are you willing to pay the price? I've heard a story laid last night about something alert along a woodline, huge foot prints, strange lights in the sky. They claim it's nothing, but I know they light it sees or last to lap in my face. But something about this makes me say, what if it's real? What if they knew? What if the answers are coming from you, spending story, wasting mine time? Hearing boys? Is it all in their minds? They can call me crazy, but I just want some froom. What if it's true? What if it's really? What if it's true? What if the worlds not what we knew? Tim or Tales blend me a story that starts where the line is get. What if it's real? What if it's true? The answers are waiting, They're waiting for you. They see if the dog man walking, or maybe I'm offman flies. I love the fairy giants hidden beneath the lies. They say, it's just stories. It's all they believe, the fairy tale sport of things we can't perceive. They want to keep us blindly. They want to break our wheel. But I'm not buying it. I'm not swowing another pill for sped poison. The lines were made to what if the truth could set us free? The aliens suos. Traveling through time, secret space programs, racing their minds. They call them crazy, but I just need some fruit. What if it's true? What if it's real? What if it's true? What if the worlds not what we do? Tillfoil tells Fullieve me a story that starts where the logic iss. What if it's real? What if it's true? The answers are waiting, They're weighing for you. They lie. We all can die. The signs are there if you open your eyes. Aliens cricked its demon's ghost. The leppled them two. What if it's me? Or what if it's real. What if it's real? What if it's true? What if the world Girl's not? What way to do? Tenfoil tells fully me a story that starts wearing the logic. And what if it's read? What if that's true? The answers are waiting, they're waiting for you. It's all in our heads, it's always our binders. These voices can be silence. The truth must rise. Ten for tell, it's pulling me true? What if it's reading? What if it's true