Ep. 263: The Energy That Surrounds Us

[00:00:03] And I just turned around and I pulled ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with that. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my headlights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most were the eyes were glowing red.

[00:00:30] And I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. He ends to tell them that he saw a UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about? That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it. And that's where I saw the top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes.

[00:00:58] As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, it felt like death. I'd like to take this time to welcome my guest tonight, Michael. Thanks for coming on here and talking to me. Well, thank you for having me. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself before we get into it? Sure. So I grew up as a metaphysical path.

[00:01:26] And what that means is just simply took a step back and looked at the world through different eyes and tried to understand it in different ways and try to make sense of things. And with that came, you know, as a teenager, spending time with shadow beings and playing with them and interacting and just, you know, having fun.

[00:01:52] And then later on in life as I became a paranormal investigator and learned about the paranormal from TV shows and Facebook groups and eventually becoming a paranormal investigator and about 2019, realizing a lot of things that I grew up with and deemed metaphysical was also paranormal.

[00:02:21] And so having a paranormal experience at two really opened my eyes and kind of, I think, set my course to where the paranormal would be the normal for me. And so I'll leave it at that because I feel like as we're talking, a lot of this may come up later. And so I'll say the repetition.

[00:02:47] I know a lot of people, when they hear someone mentioned stuff about, uh, when they were at a younger age, I've noticed a lot of people tend to think that they don't remember being that young. And I only have like one memory of around my second birthday. I just remember where I was and I kind of remember my cake. I think it had a train on it, but a lot of, like a lot of people usually don't have memories like that from that far behind.

[00:03:17] Like obviously years and years ago when you're such a young age for you remembering this to the listener out there, how do they, can you, obviously say, I can you prove this, but like, how do you, you relate to someone else? Like this is what I experienced at such a young age because a lot of people are going to be like, well, maybe it was just a dream. You know what I mean? I do.

[00:03:44] And the benefit for me was the memory didn't come through until I was a teenager. And I asked a question about something and had a dream that kind of broke the kind of block of that memory and brought it to the forefront. So I'll share with you real quick what the memory was and how it unfolded was.

[00:04:10] I had this dream where I was on the second floor of our house when I was a little kid at and found out that it was when I was two years old. I was, you know, looking at, you know, stuff going on and it was winter time. So, you know, being in the winter clothes and I'm originally from Illinois.

[00:04:35] So you can imagine, you know, what the winter clothes looked like in the early eighties. Well, I go and my mom had covered with plywood, this vent opening. Well, the plywood was not over the vent opening.

[00:04:55] And when I went to look, something grabbed me and I fell into the vent and fell from the second story past the first story to the concrete basement. And I got up and I was fine. There was no broken bones, no bruises, no nothing. Except for one thing.

[00:05:21] And that was my left eyebrow had a nick where a wire had cut my eyebrow. And to this day, no hair grows in that spot. And so that I think was what was left as a mark so that I would remember the vent because that's how I was able to start recalling. And the memory was seeing that mark and going.

[00:05:49] And saying to my parents, why do I have this mark on my eyebrow? And they go, well, it happened when you were two. And I was like, is that when I did this? And they said, yes. And so then I started talking with a friend of mine in Greece, Catherine Sorlos. And she goes, would you like to know some of the missing parts to your experience? And I said, yes.

[00:06:15] And so all this unfolds on a podcast episode. And she says, a bean pulled me in. And she put in air quotes accidentally. And another bean came up and grabbed me from that bean. And we have this conversation about talking about what the future is going to look like.

[00:06:44] What gifts am I going to bring? How is all this going to unfold? And then put back in and boom, I'm on the ground. And I would say to people, well, you know, to me, the amazing part is, one, I had no injury. And two, you know, all this happening and being able to recall it now.

[00:07:14] And somebody chimed in on the podcast and said, you know, to me, the most amazing fact is you could understand this bean. And I was like, you know, I'd never thought about that. And I'd always just thought, yeah, I had this conversation and never thought about the fact I could understand whoever this entity was.

[00:07:37] And so, yeah, it was, I think that experience impacted me in such a way that I wouldn't doubt any experience that I had unfold in front of me with the paranormal. Because it's like, you've already lived a pretty amazing paranormal experience. So why would you question it now? Right.

[00:08:05] Do you, you said this kind of happened, like the memory and everything happened when you were a teenager. Was there anything else during your teenage years that really stands out? Because I've heard before, and this obviously isn't a teenage years, but the peak of when someone's mind gets open to a lot of this stuff is usually around eight years old. Yeah.

[00:08:57] Because I would go and see channelers. I would go and see, you know, people giving lectures on, like an example is Danny and Brinkley, seeing him, you know, as a lecturer. And so I was exposed to a lot of things.

[00:09:19] So paranormal was, that's why I say paranormal was my normal, you know, playing games with shadow beings. And what I mean by that is I would be watching TV and there's a doorframe to the left that goes to the hallway.

[00:09:37] Well, as I'm watching TV, these shadow beings would start to gather in the doorway and I could see them peeking their heads around to see, you know, if they, you know, if I noticed them. And as they got closer and closer, when they got too close that I felt like, oh, you know, they could touch me or something. I would turn and look at them and go, gotcha. And they would disappear because that's what shadow beings do.

[00:10:06] They disappear when you look at them. So we started making a game of it is where could I sense them coming from and how close would I let them get to me? And so that, and so all of this together shaped me in a way that, I mean, I could only say like what everybody calls the paranormal was normal for me.

[00:10:33] Right. Which is kind of interesting in the sense that everything that you've encountered, what some people would say would be paranormal would be your normal. So when you think of things in a paranormal life, there would have to be something more extraordinary for you because you're just used to it at this point.

[00:10:54] Right. So for me, like I didn't really feel like I was really doing anything as a paranormal investigator until I started getting EVPs. And started capturing like images and pictures that I couldn't explain away and I didn't even notice I would. Somebody would ask me and go, hey, do you have a photo up from here? And I would say, yeah, here you go.

[00:11:25] And they would send it back to me and go, did you know you captured this? And I was like, nope. And so it's like I started to realize as much as it was normal for me, there was still so much more out there. And like seeing an apparition. That was new to me.

[00:11:45] And so it's amazing when, you know, as paranormal investigators, as much as we get seasoned and we have these experiences to build on. To me, what I think kind of separates me a little bit from other seasoned investigators. Investigators.

[00:12:14] I still view it as every time I have an experience or every time I have something happen as if it's the first time as a beginner. And how I think that helps me is when people come up and ask me about questions about the paranormal. How does this work? How does that work?

[00:12:36] My mind goes to, well, let me put myself in your shoes real easily and explain it this way. And so I think it helps me relate more than hanging my hat on saying, well, this is how the technology works. And this is how this app works and all of the, you know, this is done because of this factor and this factor. I'm like, I get lost hearing all of that.

[00:13:05] And so I think that's where my upbringing to where it's my normal is it keeps me grounded, so to speak. So I don't get myself to forget everybody needs a starting point.

[00:13:23] And so that's where I tend to keep myself with everything I do is I try to keep my mentality of, I'm in year one of it. So let's keep talking and relating it this way and helping people understand it better, I think, is what my hope is. Yeah.

[00:13:49] Do you think people similar to how you've been are also experiencing some of the type of activities that you've had or some of the encounter things that you've had in your life, but they're still unaware of it? I know that's kind of a vague question in the sense that you can't answer for everyone, but I feel like a lot of people have experiences, but they're not actually aware of that they're having experiences or having some sort of strange activity around them or something. Right. Right.

[00:14:18] And it is a little vague, but I'll answer it with the way I would answer it if somebody comes up to me and goes, well, I've never had a paranormal experience. And I would ask them two questions. I go, one, have you ever had a smell that's very familiar around you, but it doesn't match the environment? Like you smell flowers, a particular flower, but there's no flowers around you. And they go, yeah.

[00:14:48] I go, well, that's a paranormal experience. They're like, really? And I go, yeah. And you see this smile on their face. They're like, I've had a paranormal experience. And I'm like, I feel so special that I could let you know that. And that kind of just made my day.

[00:15:04] And so the other thing, or I'll ask them, did you ever have a feeling like a loved one was there and you were feeling hugged and supported and you were able to push through something? And they go, yeah. I was like, that's also a paranormal experience. And so it's like, I somehow manage to come up with scenarios that they're like, yes, I've had that.

[00:15:32] And I'm like, well, now you can say you've had a paranormal experience. And so I feel like that's where everybody has in their mindset when paranormal first came out as a mainstream term, it was due to the television shows where everybody was doing investigations to talk to ghosts and spirits.

[00:16:01] So the definition of paranormal became you're talking to ghosts and spirits. That's all it was. And it's so much more than that. And so that's where I try to help people now is to look at it as to go. So, you know, we don't just go looking at, you know, locations now to talk to ghosts and spirits. There could be UFOs around. There could be portals around.

[00:16:30] There could be, you know, other beings around. There could be history there that, you know, has been hidden. And, you know, we can help bring it to light. Something that happened there. And so it's all these different factors now. And how that unfolded for me was doing an article for a friend's online newsletter.

[00:16:55] And she said, write a topic, you know, just, you know, let me know, you know, when it's done. And, you know, I'll put it out for the following month, depending on when I get it. I was like, OK. So I did like a 10 to 12 page article on what's the paranormal. And I boiled it down to it's anything aside from the normal, anything unexplained. And I was like. Well, if that's the definition of paranormal.

[00:17:25] How many things out in this world right now are going on that are unexplained? And I'm like, we could totally be talking about. And so I was like, mind blown. And was like, let's go to the fringe paranormal now, because that's still paranormal. What are some of the things that stand out to you that you've experienced that you would want to share?

[00:17:52] Well, I would say one is as a funny moment. Looking back at it was. I was on the investigation with. Two members of the ghost hunters. The new team were guest investigators at this location. And I was helping guiding them through locations.

[00:18:20] And we were inside this one area that had just got cleaned out. The morning of the event. And I had the mentality of, you know, this person is the guest. Be respectful. And, you know, don't interrupt. Give them all the floor. It's their show.

[00:18:41] So she starts, you know, her process of explaining what she does and guiding them through a little situation. Well, while she's doing this, I see this white coat start blitzing by. And I'm thinking, how do I get to the door? Because I can't walk over these people without causing a disruption. I don't want the person to come in the door and cause a disruption.

[00:19:13] Oh, and I'm sitting there and I'm like in my head going, please don't come in. Please don't come in. Please don't interrupt. Well, here's where it gets funny. I look at the windows again and realize the windows are blocked. So whoever I saw was already in the room.

[00:19:36] And when she finished her feel, she goes, so does anyone have anything they'd like to say about what they experienced? And I said, well, yeah, I saw while you were doing this, a white coat go running by behind these people in between the window and where they're sitting. And she goes, why didn't you say anything? I said, I didn't want to interrupt you and be rude. And she goes, next time, interrupt me.

[00:20:06] And so we have giggles over that and are like, yeah, you know, you think you're doing the right thing. And it turns out, you know, you're you are being respectful, but wrong time, wrong place. Because a lot of people could have seen an apparition and missed out because I was trying to be respectful. So I find that kind of one of my funny memories of the paranormal.

[00:20:33] And one that's a little more nerve wracking was I was in Broken Bow Asylum in Broken Bow, Oklahoma, which unfortunately is no longer open for investigations. But I was in there standing where these two hallways met as a T shape. And in one of the corners was a nurse's station.

[00:21:02] So I'm standing there and my body cam, I think is focused straight ahead is actually off to the left. Well, from my right, this blue sparkle starts to appear and starts coming closer and closer to me. And so I'm starting to feel like something's going on. And so I freeze. And next thing I know, the sparkles is right in front of me.

[00:21:29] And I'm trying my best to be like, OK, stand your ground. This is a test. Just don't, you know, flinch because I don't know what's going to happen if you flinch and, you know, what's going to happen if I don't. So I'm kind of trying to figure out what's my next move. And a friend of mine, bless his heart, is a British guy and he's a medium.

[00:21:56] And he leans over my shoulder and goes, it's standing right in front of you. I was like, no kidding. Of course, in my head, that's not what I said. I added a couple more, you know, colorful words. But I was like, yeah. And so then I had when I backed up a step and I felt drawn to go in this other room. So I turn and I go into this room.

[00:22:25] And as I enter it. This white blob mass, milky mass starts forming in front of me, comes close to me and then just vanishes. And when it vanishes, I walk out of the room. And I'm like, I can't wait to get home. See my body cam footage. What comes on?

[00:22:51] Well, like I mentioned, the body cam was facing left, so I didn't see the sparkle. But when I walked in the room, the second I stepped foot in the room after it started 28 seconds of a five minute recording, it stopped recording. And then it start recording the next segment of five minutes until I stepped out of the room.

[00:23:17] And I asked some police buddies of mine that are paranormal investigators. I said, did your body cam ever just record like 28 seconds? And they said, absolutely not. It does not shut off unless you turn it off. And if it did only record 28 seconds, that is definitely something wrong with the body cam or something turned it off for you.

[00:23:46] And so that's where I was like a little creepy because I was like, that body cam was on me. So that means that white mask that I saw in front of me was already on me before I even knew it was in the room. Hmm.

[00:24:08] Do you think, uh, these, I don't want to say that you're like drawing them in, but do you think because you notice some of these things that they're more attracted to you because you actually notice them? I think that's partly it. And I think the other part of it is in the metaphysical community, we refer to ourselves as beacons of light.

[00:24:36] Uh, we are emitting light energy into the world. And so what happens is, you know, let's say, you know, you walk into a building, every spirit that's in that building is going to see this light entering this space and are naturally going to want to see what's going on. And so they all will flock and, you know, some will keep their distance.

[00:25:03] Some might get right in front of your face and some might, you know, stay hidden and just be like, we'll just wait and see. And if he leaves, you know, okay. But I think it's partly that yes, we can see them and they know we can see them or sense them. But I think it's also the light that everybody is giving off.

[00:25:30] And if your light is brighter than others, they're more attracted to it. Right. It's almost like the old metaphor of how the moths attracted to the light. I've kind of wondered that if some of these spirits or energies or whatever they actually are, are attracted to people that have that light about themselves.

[00:25:52] I think it's they're attracted not only to the light themselves, you know, itself, but also I think they're looking at what's around that light. So what I mean by that is. So, for example, if I walk into a room. I'm giving off a lot of light energy. But my light energy is shielded.

[00:26:19] So they, you know, may or may not be able to see it or get to it. Because I'm protecting myself. Now, somebody who walks in that doesn't do protection on themselves and has this bright light. Emitting. They're going to notice, hey, that light is exposed. We can feed off of that light.

[00:26:44] And so that's where that person may get an attachment or two or three versus someone who's protected themselves and cleansed themselves when they're done. Their field remains, you know, cleaner. I mean, we can't guarantee always you won't get an attachment.

[00:27:03] But it will be a lot harder, you know, when you're protecting yourself and saging or, you know, doing other methods of clearing your energy. Keep an attachment than the person who just says, oh, we're done. Okay, I'm going home. And never gets rid of anything and just keeps building them up and building them up.

[00:27:29] And that's why I think you start to notice when you look at some paranormal investigators or paranormal team members. They start getting very different and they start, you know, not showing up or they start acting out of the ordinary. It's because the attachments, they got too many attachments. And so it's affecting them, but nobody realizes that's what's going on.

[00:27:58] And everybody just questions and just says, I don't know what's going on. He won't talk or she won't talk. So we don't know. When people have attachments. And this might be, I don't know if you can answer it, but how does someone know if their body has an attachment? Like if they have an attachment to themselves, how can someone figure that out?

[00:28:24] Well, one way is, is if you are high energy and really bubbly, happy personality, and you're doing this investigation and you're noticing as the night is going on, you're getting more and more tired than normal. And you're like, the joy of your day is like being kind of literally feels like being sucked off.

[00:28:54] And it's like, you're like, yeah, I don't have my joy anymore. And what am I doing here? And you start, you know, noticing you're like kind of getting lethargic or you're getting like a, I don't care attitude. And somebody approaches you and you're like, leave me alone.

[00:29:17] That would be a sign you got an attachment or something is trying to attach to you. And you need to get out and ground yourself and clear yourself off.

[00:29:30] Another example is if you're walking into a space and you're always with the group and all of a sudden, it's like you get distracted by something and you go off and you're like by yourself. And then it's like two, three hours later, everybody's like trying to figure out where you are.

[00:29:58] That person may have an attachment that they, you know, isolated themselves when they normally are the one that's always with the group. So those are some things to look out for is really the key. And why you, we always say, you know, as paranormal investigators don't investigate by yourself is for this very reason.

[00:30:22] They can see you acting out of your norm more so than you can, or at least they'll notice it sooner so that you can get rid of whatever is attached to you faster. Mm hmm. I know when people have talked about having these sort of like negative energies attached to them or whatever, some people claim they've been demonically possessed.

[00:30:51] And I think that word kind of gets tossed around a lot. I don't necessarily think that's all demonic possession, but I've spoken with people before that have made, I don't want to say a living, but they make money by being a cleaner in the sense that they go through and they remove these. Quote unquote demons from people. Is that something that you've had to deal with before? Has someone ever tried to ask you about something like that?

[00:31:19] Or have you ever worked with someone that's claims to be able to do that? I do have a friend that does do investigations and his forte is demonic energies. And he and I talk about this and he goes all over the country, you know, to do these investigations when he can.

[00:31:45] And one thing that we both agree on is sometimes it's just an angry spirit and it's presenting itself in such a way that you could easily mistaken it as a demon. What I mean by that is. It's yelling at you. It's calling you names. It's beating you down.

[00:32:10] It's putting, you know, pushing you around and maybe scratching you, you know, because it just doesn't want you in its space. And he's trying to get you to leave. But you're not leaving. So there's one example where, you know, it's just an angry spirit, not a demon.

[00:32:32] And you can also have, you know, experiences where things, you know, door starts slamming and everything, you know, starts acting like it's, you know, really mad. And, you know, it's an angry spirit who is angry in life. And a lot of people say they're going to be angry in the afterlife. So they're presenting themselves as they are.

[00:33:00] But you get scared and your fear takes over and goes, oh, my God, there's a demon in here because, you know, it's scaring me. And so a lot of times they are misidentified. And even my friend that does work with the demons, he's like, I rarely actually encounter a demon.

[00:33:27] A lot of times it's just a really angry spirit or a really, you know, angry energy. And so he does his work to clear them out. And I respect his work and his work ethic is if he can't trust you to hold your ground, he doesn't take you into the scenario.

[00:33:53] And so I haven't gone on one of those investigations with him. I have investigated other locations with him. And we just, you know, we have the understanding of, yeah, I probably could hold my own against this energy. But because I'm untested, it's not safe to, you know, just go and be like, let's experiment.

[00:34:24] Because if it is what they say it is, that's not the time to be bad time to do an experiment. And now I'm screwed because I don't know what to do kind of motif. So that's why we, you know, respect each other and keep our areas of what we focus on to our own selves.

[00:34:48] And he tunes into some of my shows to hear what I talk about and what I'm exposed to versus what he's exposed to. But there's a mutual respect there. And I think that's what's needed amongst paranormal investigators is a respect of, you know what you know. I know what I know.

[00:35:15] And if you don't feel comfortable taking me into this situation, I respect that. And I'm not going to force myself to prove myself because to me, that's doing the exact opposite. If you have to force yourself to go on an investigation with someone, there's probably a reason they don't want to tell you that they don't want you, you know, on that investigation.

[00:35:44] And it may not be you're not a good investigator. It could be they know what they're walking into. You don't. You don't. And it's better to err on the side of caution sometimes than just let everybody do whatever they want because that's not safe. And as paranormal investigators, we have to do it safely.

[00:36:11] Do you happen to know if I'm trying to think of how to word this? If you were in an investigation or whatever, do you know when you go into an area what that energy is? If something is your evil or like a really negative energy, like can you sense that? Sometimes.

[00:36:37] And what it presents itself is if I feel like something is grinding on my energy and by that I mean trying to like force it, I can feel that pressure on my energy field. And I'll be like, this isn't normal. A normal spirit that just wants to communicate is not going to try and force itself on me or to make contact.

[00:37:06] So something else has to be going on. And so. I will automatically switch my energy from just being low, you know, enough to create a barrier, you know, field, so to speak. Of just acknowledging something's there to if something's pressing on it, it goes full bore into that spot.

[00:37:33] And it's like almost like it'll push it off or it'll just keep its intensity so that it just gives up. And if I had the opportunity, like I did one time, I was in a. Governor's house of state I live in, Texas, an old governor's house, not the current one. And.

[00:37:57] And we were investigating and I could feel this pressure on my arm and my energy went there and was like I could feel the heat and intensity. But it wasn't hurting me. It was I could feel like it was just keeping me safe. And I noticed that the lady that was doing channeling, so to speak, was like talking for the spirit.

[00:38:26] And I said and I flat out actually went and engaged this spirit, which I normally don't do. I don't like to engage in kind of like a who's more powerful match, you know, between the spirit and myself. But. I was like, I was just trusting my instincts and I was like, hey, are you trying to grab my arm? And they said, yes, I said, you can't, can you? And they said, no.

[00:38:57] I said, does that scare you? No. And I said, well, you need to stop trying because you're going to hurt yourself if you don't. And they kind of were like, yeah, whatever. And I could feel them trying, you know, like to grab it harder. And I go and I was like, I kind of fist put my hand in a fist, which increased the energy a little bit.

[00:39:26] And I go, your your hand is burning now, isn't it? And they said, yeah. And I said, do you know who I am? And they looked and they were like, no. I said, well, I know who I am and you need to back off and you need to stop trying to attach yourself to me or I will return you to source. And they stopped.

[00:39:55] And. The night went on because who they were wanting came up and they were like, OK, we're no longer interested in you. But I was fortunate that I caught that on camera because it was like the only time I've ever had to do that. And I don't like.

[00:40:15] When I go into investigations and someone is like yelling at this ghost and like antagonizing them and then they walk away and say, OK, you go in. I'm like, no, if you're going to stir it up, you go. I didn't stir them up. Why should I deal with, you know, these, you know, spirits now that you riled them up?

[00:40:39] And so that's where I differ from some of the shows styles that people see. But I have a friend who now owns a haunted location. And he loves to antagonize and instigate them. But he stays with you through the whole process. He doesn't ever walk away.

[00:41:03] And so I have more respect for him doing that than I do for the people who do it on like TV shows and just do it for ratings. And. It's like, no, because that's not right to me. If you're going to stir something, you need to stay with it until it settles and is resolved, not.

[00:41:28] Leave it for somebody else and just be like, whatever and walk away. Right. I'm not one that really goes on a whole lot of investigations with other people. I've done some stuff here and there, especially recently with my documentary. And I plan on getting out and doing some more now that I have the equipment to do so. But I'm very particular of who's around me. And.

[00:41:59] I don't want to have like a bunch of random different people that I don't really know. So if I go out and do things, I'm going with the same people that way. It's kind of like my own little. I don't want to call it a team, but the people that I trust that I know we're not. Not out there faking stuff. You know what I mean? Right. And. That is the struggle that I have with a lot of these TV shows are they are made for entertainment purposes. And for me, I'm not.

[00:42:25] I want something to be entertaining, but I'm not going to go out there and make it entertaining in the sense that we're going to. Try and make something now worse than it actually is. You know what I mean? I hate when. Oh, everything on ghost adventures is a demon or this happened here. I don't believe all that stuff. I think it's just for them trying to draw up interest in the show and entertainment purposes. I view all the TV shows, honestly, as doing mini scouting.

[00:42:55] I call them mini scouting adventures. And what I mean by that is, you know, let's say you go to a park and you're like, Hey, you know, how's it feel out here? You're scouting it, right? You're seeing if it's worth bringing a team to. Well, or, you know, it's worth coming back and investigating, you know, at a later time when you have more time to do exactly that.

[00:43:24] Well, that's how I view the TV shows. These are locations that I probably won't ever get to, but I look at what's going on there. What it feels like everybody is, you know, how they're reacting. I'm watching their facial and body reactions more than I'm watching what they're saying and, you know, all of that.

[00:43:49] And I go, huh, this spot, you know, looks really active, you know, and I'll write it down and I'll be like, you know, that's on my bucket list. Or if I had a location and I'm watching a show and I'm like, yeah, I'm not quite so sure, you know, this is worth the money. I cross it off the list and I'm like, hey, you know.

[00:44:14] So that's why I say I use them more for scouting to say, yeah, is this spot worth going to? Is this spot worth, you know, putting, say, you know, 10 people together so I can afford the $1,000 fee to get in the door and investigate? Versus going somewhere more local that's not on television.

[00:44:43] And do I get more activity there than what I've seen on the TV show? If I feel like the answer is yes, save the money. Stay local. And I know that sounds bad for all these, you know, location owners that are on these TV shows hoping to drum up business. But I always like to be transparent and honest with my shows.

[00:45:09] And so if people ask me, I always will give them the honest answer of I would spend the money to go or I wouldn't spend the money to go. I'm not going to say, yeah, you should go just because it was on TV. I'm going to be like, I wouldn't go, but you can go.

[00:45:33] And so that that's where the TV shows and I that's where we are is I just use them just to see. About locations and sometimes like destination fear when they were doing their thing. They came to a location that I had investigated quite a few times.

[00:45:56] And it was cool to see their experiences versus what I know goes on there from my experiences and being like, yeah, some of it's the same. Some of it was different. But. You know, it's still bottom line, though, is. You look at it to see it. This is a spot worth going to and getting a bunch of people together to go to, because.

[00:46:26] That's the way the paranormal world works now is to get in the door. You have to have a bunch of people to get in the door because some places are more expensive than others. But you also want to make sure when you're doing that one, you trust these people to show up and. Be, you know. In the right frame of mind. And.

[00:46:56] And. Not only that, but, you know, they're not going to trash or steal from the place and. They're not going to. Act in such a way that you're going to be asked to never, ever come back. To any location and your name is going to be passed around as a. Blacklisted name. Two locations. Right. Because I guarantee. Owners talk to each other.

[00:47:25] I've often wondered if. They don't enjoy. The hype that they get from some of the places because that brings in revenue for them. They rent out their places for investigations. And I know of a place around my area itself that charges like over a thousand dollars for a one night investigation. And then you get a group of people. They all pitch in a couple hundred dollars just to go do that. I mean, they just made a thousand dollars for one night. That's. Pretty good money for them. You know what I mean?

[00:47:55] It is. It is. And. You know, when a location is seen. Like I have a friend that she caretakes. A location that's haunted. And she does investigate. She hires out investigations. Well, she has. A paranormal investigator or two that. She knows and trusts. She knows and trusts. Goes through and says, yes, there is activity.

[00:48:24] There's. There may not be a lot, but there is something here. So. Or, yeah, you have a lot of activity here. Based on that, she determines if she's going to bring in, you know, and advertise it out to everybody as, hey, come check out this location. Mm-hmm.

[00:48:45] Because she uses the money to help maintain the building and the haunted house that runs in it in October. Now, I know some people don't like the fact that there is a haunted house set up in this haunted location. But she does it in such a way that.

[00:49:11] When you're investigating, everything is off equipment wise for the haunt. So if anything goes off, that is purely. You know, the equipment that is not her trying to make you think something. And so that aspect, I kind of, you know. I'm like, yeah, you know. Could it be?

[00:49:42] No, because she's not going to be the one that's going to, you know, go home and get on her phone and say, OK, turn everything back on by phone and let's scare the hell out of everybody that's there. She's like, it's already, you know, she's been told it's already haunted. Don't need to. So she wouldn't do that. And I know her well enough. And her name is Shauna Lee.

[00:50:11] And she is. Her. If you ask her, you know, how much are you in the paranormal? She'll say I'm not. I'm a horror person. I like to scare people. With that being said. You guys tell me what's here. And she she doesn't. You know, she'll say, oh, this has happened or that's happened. She'll share experiences that people have told her or her own experiences.

[00:50:42] But she never will. But, you know, into motion something that she's like, oh, yeah. You know, we turned all the animatronics off. And be like, you let them on, right? Yeah. OK, this will be good. That's not her. You know, she's like if they're she says they're off, they're off. Now, granted, you know, if one is still on.

[00:51:11] It's a large place and, you know, they're doing a lot of, you know, she has a normal job. Then came here to get this ready for you. Could have easily missed one. So I wouldn't say, oh, that's proof that she's trying to, you know, fake everybody out. She legitimately wants to know if it's haunted or not.

[00:51:35] And legitimately is interested in what everybody's experiences are. And if you say nothing's happened, she says, well, I'm sorry. I guess they were on holiday or, you know, just wasn't your night. And we always say to everybody that goes through there, though, if we're if I'm like there with the group, I'm like, I can't guarantee you anything's going to happen. We never can.

[00:52:03] But if it does, let's be sure to document it as best we can. But. Yeah, so it's all depends on the owners, you know what their intention is that they are wanting the money. You can tell when things will be hyped up. And you may end up leaving disappointed or it may live up to it.

[00:52:32] But I always tend to gravitate more towards the places that aren't all about the hype. I've never went to a place that had a lot of hype other than these local spots that I'm familiar with. And I know lots of people around here have had tons of experiences, but I have not had some of the experiences that a lot of other people have had at these locations. So for me, I was like, I don't see the hype in it. But that's just me.

[00:53:02] I'm not saying I'm going to go out there and have all the experiences like everyone else has had. You know what I mean? Right. It doesn't. It's not to discredit the area. Yeah, I think it has to do with the intention. That everybody goes in with.

[00:53:18] And I know that that sounds strange to hear, but what I'm meaning by that is if your intention or your desire when you walk in that building is you're going to have EVPs out the gazoo because you're going to focus all your energy on getting those EVPs. And you don't get them.

[00:53:47] You're going to say, well, this place, you know, isn't worth the money or worth any of that because this was the claim of fame. Well, what I tell people is while you were focused on, you know, getting your EVP, you had three doors opening and closing to the left of you down this hallway. You had shadows walking by.

[00:54:16] In other words, you're having all this other paranormal experiences going on, but you're missing them because you're so hyper focused. And so I always tell people. Just go through whatever happens, happens. If nothing's happened, don't write off the night just yet because you never know if you're running equipment, what's on your equipment.

[00:54:42] You may have, you know, recorded something you didn't know you recorded. So don't, you know, say nothing happened because chances are something did, but it just didn't happen in your purview. So you missed it. And the other thing I always like to remind people is.

[00:55:07] We don't, you know, we can't say spirits are always around and always going to be there. So if nothing actually, nothing actually happens, don't go online and say this place is a fraud.

[00:55:24] This place is, you know, a scam because just because nothing happened the night you were there doesn't mean the next night when a team is there, something, you know, is going to happen. And it's like, hey, you were just on an off night. Sorry. You know, we can't promise they're always around.

[00:55:49] And so it always kind of rubs me the wrong way when people will leave a location and say, well, this place isn't worth going to anymore because nothing happened. I'm like, well, I'll say to people, I have a theory around that. If a spirit sees you walking in the door and says you're here just for 15 seconds of fame.

[00:56:18] Why should I expend any energy to talk to you? When I have three people over here who. Their energy says they want to talk. They're not interested in all the other stuff they want to communicate. So I'm going to give my energy to those people.

[00:56:40] And that's why some people will leave and say, well, nothing happened to me while others are saying, oh, my God, I couldn't get them to shut up or leave me alone. It's because of the intention and energy of that person. And so if your team is all about like. Getting on TV and, you know. Making it, you know, hyping it up and, you know, like faking stuff.

[00:57:08] Spirits will probably leave you alone and be like. You're not worth their time. Whereas the teams that are going there who are actually really wanting to document the paranormal and, you know, maybe seek some answers. They're going to give them more time. What do you think? I honestly have an opinion that I don't usually share too much, but.

[00:57:38] I guess I can for this. I think when you mentioned intent, I think 100% of that is accurate. But I also think. Even people are unaware of what their intent is. And sometimes I believe that these things are aware of. Just your energy. And they know you're out there looking for them. Some of them may want that interaction.

[00:58:04] But some of them are going to interpret it as a way to manipulate you. Because they're going to tell you things or say things or interact with you. And possibly lead you on to believe that they're actually just a different type of a spirit. But they're not really what that is. Like they still have some sort of an intent towards you as well. And I'm not trying to say it's a demonic thing. But when I filmed my documentary.

[00:58:31] And this is honestly, I didn't even wasn't aware of this until like a couple weeks ago. After I had everything finished, I was listening through it again. We had a voice recorder. And the area that we were at around here locally, it's referred to as Hobbit land. And the reason it's called Hobbit land is because years and years ago, people were reporting seeing small humanoid figures out there, which still happens up until today. And it's happened obviously hundreds of years ago because the Native Americans even talked about little people.

[00:59:00] So that's where the term Hobbit land came from. But when I was out there, I asked, what are you to the spirit box? And obviously it's hard to dictate things in a spirit box. You can't necessarily claim as paranormal because it's scanning through frequencies. But I swear, if you crank up that volume from what we recorded, it almost sounds like it says Hobbit. Now, Hobbit is a made up word. And a made up term for what they used to call that place.

[00:59:29] So if there is a spirit out there, it's not going to call itself a Hobbit. Because it wasn't actually, you know what I mean? It's like it's wanting, it's only referencing what we think it is because that area is known as that. So whatever this thing talking to the spirit box was, is telling me it's a Hobbit. Well, I actually have a theory about that. And that is, if this spirit is, say, like what we would call maybe like a dwarf.

[00:59:57] Well, if that's not common around and you ask, what are you? And you say dwarf, it's going to be like from a cartoon? Or what are you talking? And, you know, what? And not make sense. It's going to kind of, like you're saying, read your energy. Read your language and go, what do you call us?

[01:00:26] And it'll find the word and go, that's the word. And we'll give you back the word you know. That's why I feel like at times when we're talking, like, say, Gettysburg. I personally haven't investigated Gettysburg. But if I'm communicating with the spirit in Gettysburg,

[01:00:48] the language from the 1860s to today is completely almost different. So I would never understand a word anybody was saying from the 1860s because their English would not match our English. You know what I mean? It wouldn't make sense, the sentence structure and the verbiage.

[01:01:17] So that's where I feel like they read our minds to translate and put it to where we understand so that the communication can happen. Does that make more sense? Yeah, it does. Because we've been going on for almost an hour and we're usually trying to keep these at an hour.

[01:01:41] But before we wrap this one up, I was going to ask you about the podcast that you do and what got you into podcasting and stuff like that. Sure, I can do that real quick. So when I first became a paranormal investigator, a network head reached out to me at a location and said,

[01:02:06] you know, I've been watching you here and I've been hearing great things and looking at you. I feel like you would be a great podcast host. You have a lot to offer. And I said, no, I'm too green. I don't know anybody. So I turned them down and two, three years later at a paraunity event, our paths crossed. And I stand in front of a phone that's on a ring light and say hi.

[01:02:35] And then I get called out to do something and I come back and he's breaking everything down. And he's like, hey, do you want to do a podcast show? We're not done with you yet. We still think you'll be a great asset to the network. And I talked to a friend and we started a show in July of 2022.

[01:03:00] And in December, we finished that show and we were like, you know, the show, the title doesn't make sense. We just don't feel the formats working for us. You know, we can't, we're too confined by this and this. And so we remolded it and kind of revamped it. And we called it the energy that surrounds us.

[01:03:27] And she stayed with me, my friend, until June when she went out to do her own show. And I just kept going. But we, you know, have grown a lot since we first did our first podcast. And so that's how the energy that surrounds us was formed. And my other show that I created, writing through the unknown is on Wednesdays.

[01:03:57] And I created that one and launched it in August 2023 after losing my dad in June of 2023. And so I told myself I would give it 10 episodes if it made. It made. If it didn't, I gave it a shot. And it ended up having 11 episodes instead of 10.

[01:04:27] And I felt like it was getting a response and people were enjoying it. My mom was enjoying it. Friends were enjoying it. And so I ended up sticking with. And so both the energy that surrounds us, which is on Tuesday nights. And writing through the unknown Wednesday nights normally. Are going into their fourth year, season four this year. And are going strong.

[01:04:56] And so I am grateful for the opportunity. And my mantra on my shows is simply put, the guests make the show. And I put my guest in the forefront. And that's why you won't see my picture on a thumbnail. Is I want all the focus to be on my guest. Because that's who I'm promoting. And sharing their stories and their experiences.

[01:05:24] Much like Brandon's doing here. And so I try to keep it authentic as I can. And I think that's what people enjoy about them. Yeah, I. Podcasting is a completely different animal than what I ever expected it to be. And we kind of talked off air about the stringed role of podcast. Podcasting is a podcast.

[01:05:50] But if you send me a link, I will include that in the show notes for everyone listening. So they can check out your podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I use Linktree myself. Because it has all the link. So my Linktree, you can find links to my books that I've written and published. You can find links to my website. Link to my shows.

[01:06:16] On any platform that you enjoy listening to podcasts. So I'll be sure to get that to you. And I will, you know, look forward to many more episodes. And maybe even in the future, you know, we can collaborate and have you on my show.

[01:06:41] So yeah, I'm, I slowly am starting to get back into doing other interviews on other podcasts. I did a lot when I first started and I kind of slowed down because I didn't want to oversaturate the same interview on everybody's show, but I've been here and there hopping on a couple of different shows that I haven't been on before. So I'm kind of the same way. Yeah. I'm kind of the same way.

[01:07:11] In the beginning, you got to promote out. So you go on as much as you can and you kind of flood the market, so to speak, so that everybody's like, oh, I seen you on this show. Yeah. Let's go check out the show. So, and then you table it back and are like, okay, now let the show speak for itself. Yeah.

[01:07:35] Well, Michael, it has been a pleasure talking with you again for anyone listening, make sure to check out the show notes. I will put Michael's link tree link in there for you. And I'm sure I'll have you back on because I'm sure we have a lot more we could discuss, but it is getting late for me and, uh, I do have work in the morning. So we're going to wrap this one up. And thank you again. And anytime you need a guest, I'll be happy to pop on.

[01:08:06] Hey, not a problem. Love to have you back, but you have a great night. And for everyone out there listening again, check out the links, but we're going to wrap it up. So we'll check you on the next one. If you would like to be a guest on 10 foil tells, remember to send an email to 10 foil tells podcast at gmail.com, or you can also go to 10 foil tells.com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out and get ahold of me and we will get something scheduled for a future episode.

[01:08:35] You can also find 10 foil tells on Facebook and Instagram. Just look for 10 foil tells podcast. You reach out to me that way too. Remember to share the show around word of mouth is the best way to help the show grow. And just remember truth comes at cost. Are you willing to pay the price?