Ep. 240: Small Town Monsters

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me. Away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw a UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw. The top of the muzzle, noose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact this thing. It don't like Debt. Welcome back to ten Foil Tells. I'm your host Brandon Tonight were joined by my guest Heather. Heather, thanks for coming on here and talking with me. Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself. Well, my name is Heather Moser. I work for Small Town Monsters, which is a documentary film company based out of Ohio. We are independent, so we do our own thing, and we're not a very large crew, but much larger than we were ten years ago. Yeah, I work for them, and what that means for me is kind of a little bit of everything I produce. This last summer I got to direct for the first time, I guess that. Yeah. I help with some of the writing for Narration at times, not all the time. Sometimes that's Mark Matski, but research planning, helping plan trips. I recently was given a little it's like a it's almost like a GoPro on a stick. It's a dji. I don't even remember what it's actually called, but I get to run that because it's pretty easy to do. It's that little mini thing. Yeah. Yeah, because I can't. I can't. There have been times where because there are only a couple of us sometimes on shoots, there's times where I've had to hold the camera up. But ever since I can remember, I actually I shake a little bit. My hands shake, and I can't keep a steady picture. But this little dji I kind of takes care of that. So that's what I get to do. Sometimes I've seen videos advertising those things and I really want to get one, but they're not that cheap, so I'll have to keep saving up. Yeah, I have no idea. It was something that was brought It was one of our one of our trips a few months back that we brought I was I think it was just Courtney and I out on a trip actually filming, and she brought this along. It was something they had just bought to try to see how it looked, and she's like, this one's pretty easy and it, you know, will make up for the shaking, so you can give it a give it a go. And we've named it Stanley Stick. I don't know if you remember that from Nickelodeon, but a little popsicle stick guy that would pop up between commercials. But that's what we that's what we named him, Stanley Stick. That's my camera. What got you involved in all of this? Is this something that you've been interested in for like doing documentaries and film work before all this, or is it just kind of something that you fell into. Yeah, I honestly never would have thought that I would be involved in making documentary. Filmmaking was never on my radar at all. Actually, what was on my radar was weirdness, high strangeness, ghosts, cryptids that kind of thing. It started off with interest in the paranormal and kind of grew from there, and ultimately I got involved with small town Monsters because Seth had announced that he was going to be doing a movie on the Bell, which and I had already been doing research on that for another project that I was working on regarding cursed letters or cursed objects in the letters that accompany them when they get returned. So I'd already looked into the Bell which legend, and I reached out to him and I was like, Hey, if you ever need a researcher, that's what I love to do. I love to go through old newspaper articles, old books, you know, just scanning the internet. I love diving into stuff like that and it's almost like solving mysteries, you know. At some points, and he said, actually, we could use a researcher, and so that's how I got started, and then the roles have evolved from there. I know, I can't think of the one off hand, but you actually narrated one of the recent documentaries, didn't you. Yeah. I So we've been having it's called Bigfoot Archives is a show on YouTube that we've put out. We're aiming for about once a quarter, and I get to narrate that, which is fun. But the first time that I got to actually narrate anything in the length was Curse Waters, the Ocopulo movie that we did. Eli Watson filmed it and directed it, and he he messaged me and he's like, hey, do you think you could narrate this? And I was like, I mean, I can try, and so he said, okay, here's here's what I want you to aim for. I can't do voices or anything like that, but he was like, you know the opening for Lord of the Rings, and I'm like, of course I do. He's like, that's what I want you to sound like. I'm like, okay, I'll do my best. So I tried. I tried. I was watching that one a couple weeks back and I'd seen that you were doing the narration for it, so I couldn't. Yeah, I've watched a few of them here in the last few months and I couldn't remember which one it was offhand. Yeah, Yeah, it was fun. So this is ten years now for Small Town Monsters. Have you been involved with them for almost the whole ten years? No? So they started the first film actually came out in twenty fifteen. I guess Seth started filming in twenty fourteen from what I've heard, but it came out in twenty fifteen with a minerval monster, and that I was aware of it as soon as it started because that's about a monster near where I live, so that was on my radar. But I officially got involved with STM in twenty nineteen. Okay, so this be my seventh year. Yeah, heading in my seventh year by the fall I think or late late spring, I guess is whenever I was officially involved. So that was about the time when I actually started to look more into the whole crypti thing online with the documentaries and stuff. I usually didn't pay much attention to that type of stuff, but then it was around twenty nineteen into twenty twenty is when I started to do a lot more digging into things, once I kind of figured out there was podcast that kind of talked about this stuff too. Yeah, So so you just like, were you interested in the subject prior to this or was twenty nineteen? Like there was something about that year that you're like, Oh, this stuff's awesome. I think the whole podcast thing honestly happened because of Joe Rogan having a Bob Lazar on. Ah. Yeah, that was the whole They're going to raid Area fifty one, when that whole Facebook stupid movement that was going on. And yeah, and I started looking. I've seen that I'd watched the Joe Rogan episode, and anytime someone mentions podcast, you automatically just think of Joe Rogan because that's all I ever thought about. I never paid much attention to it. But then once the whole world kind of went on lockdown for beginning of twenty twenty is when I really started listening to podcast. Yeah, I think a lot of people that was I mean, when the world slowed down, right, you had a chance to kind of explore different things. That Area fifty one thing that you mentioned that all that Facebook chaos. I I was following along while Seth and some of the crew were out west filming the first season of on the Trail of UFOs, and they were near Area fifty one and they like live streamed and the live stream got like bombarded with random people because everybody was searching for Area fifty one. So they got a lot of trolls, like on the live stream, and they were real confused, like what is what is this? We don't normally have as many people watching us, and why are they saying these ridiculous things about all kinds of unappropriate alien things. Yeah, that was the running gag that a lot of people were talking about doing. I won't say what it was, but there was quite a bit of stupidities that was being brought up. Exactly. So now that that whole time frame, like obviously I was with having my own experience, like I was interested in cryptids and everything, but I didn't realize there was that many more people that were It's one of those taboo topics that you don't really bring up to most people because they think you're crazy. Yeah, yep, I understand that for sure. So I made subtle hints here and there. I used to be in a band and we had stuff that had like crypti related names or merch or stuff like that. But like, some people knew what happened with me, but I didn't go out there and advertise it to. Everybody, right, So that's cool though. That was one of the things that I guess drew me into the whole cryptid realms. Like for the documentaries and other things were finding out that there was I wasn't the only person that like seeing some of those weird stuff thanks to the Internet. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And even though documentary filmmaking wasn't anything that I ever thought i'd be involved in many years ago, that's one of the big things that I like about it is that we get to since it is a documentary one you can just document you don't have to like put a spin on anything, but you get to get these people's stories out there. And to me, that serves two purposes, very important purposes, and the one is to preserve the story so it doesn't get lost, So the historian aspect of me comes out for that. But then also that allows people to see that they're not alone there. I can't think of I can't really think of any stories that we've come across or witnesses that have spoken to us that there haven't been elements of their story that sound you know, there are bits and pieces at least that are very similar to other people's stories, and I think there's something very vital to that to let someone know that, yeah, you experienced something that was really really odd and in some cases traumatic, but you're not alone in that. That's the whole reason I started doing my show in the first place, was I wanted to talk to other people that had that experience because I felt like for so long I couldn't talk about it. Yeah, and that's a really bad feeling. I don't like that. I mean, in all aspects of human existence, the feeling alone and isolated, it's not not good. Now, the couple of times that I ever did bring it up, people just kind of laughter, made a what were you smoking comments or something stupid. Mm hmm. Yeah. Definitely definitely heard that from a lot of people. When you were out filming with your like on the documentaries and some of the times that you're out in the field, Has there been anything that's actually ever come across so you guys think you may have actually heard something or seen something while you've been filming, Well. We have actually, yes. One of the most recent ones when we were doing Investigation Bigfoot, which is which is on YouTube. I think that ended up being three episodes. We brought Aaron deeson from Texas and went out to PA and hooked up with some researchers over there, Sean Palker and Matt Arner and we did a little bit of a night investigation because the property that we were on kind of backed up to a state forest, I believe, so there was a lot of stuff, a lot of opportunity for some sort of wildlife to come out. And we did a little bit of an investigation and there was something, I mean, we were hearing things in the woods. At one point Aaron and Sean I think I was further away from them, but they heard something that Aaron said it was like a baboon sound or something. I can't remember exactly how he phrased it, but he heard some sort of primate like sound. And then at one point his camera died and he was watching this eyeshine that he had caught up higher off the ground. He kept his flashlight trained on and he had his handicam and then the hand can battery died. But even through all of his adrenaline, he had the mind frame to pull out his iPhone and start filming, So that footage actually made the third episode, the last episode of Investigation Bigfoot from the first season, where Aaron the footage you see with the eyeshine is from Aaron's iPhone. No one else was in that angle at that time, and his his thing had died, so we'd have that. When we did the Bigfoot project, which was filmed here at my property back in I don't even know, twenty twenty two, twenty three, something like that. It was a while ago. Now, we had all kinds of activity happening, and that a lot of that we were able to capture on film. Fortunately, particularly in episode one, you see a lot of that. But Seth and I could hear things running around us. Something was throwing rocks at us. We would hear vocalizations, so all of that was here. When we filmed on the Chestnut Ridge, we saw spook lights while filming there, and that was not meant to be. I mean, I don't know how many people go out looking for like spook lights unless they're going like the round mountain lights or something. But we were out there looking for Bigfoot, and what happened was that we saw these orbs like self illuminating balls of light and that was pretty cool. But yeah, it happens sometimes. I think that one disadvantage that we have when filming one is if it's a larger crew, you've got a lot of noise in the woods and two. If you don't want just vision, you've got lights and that's it's not like you're just sitting there quietly. And I mean we do that sometimes, but that doesn't translate to camera very well, to just sit there in the dark. So we try to move when we can, just for movement of camera. So but yeah, on occasion, on occasion, we look out and we hear some things. So it does happen. It does. I was actually filming earlier today and. Oh, were you at that triangle place? Yeah? I uh, I'm not going to chalk it up to anything strange because the first thing I got out and I heard was sounded like a whoop. But then I realized down in the river there was a family, so it could have been one of them. So I wrote that off. It's just probably a person. But later on I was filming off this bridge, the hobbit Land, and because there's a bunch of puckwudgy stuff like little people's stories. Oh wow. So back in the seventies, a lot of people have talked about it that I've talked to it from the nineteen seventies. They've referred to it as Hobbitland. Back then, I think that's when the name came about. But the local tribe always talked about little people. But when I was out there, I was walking back. I just finished filming. I was walking back to the truck, and there was a almost sound like where the guardrail is, like something hit the guardrail and kind of like scraped across it. So I turned around and looked, and there was nothing there. But I can't figure out what. I looked around. I was like, maybe it was from under the bridge, but I don't know what it would have made that noise. I was like, that's a very specific noise. I was like, that's a there's no one out here for miles because desolate in this little area, and that is a metal noise, like you can tell metal from other noises. Yeah. Yeah, that reminds me of a couple of things. One I've heard people describe Bigfoot, like bigfoot activity and accompanying that are sounds sometimes that don't make any sense, which I'm assuming the thought is that they are mimicking sounds that they've heard. But you be out in the middle of nowhere and you hear like a car door slam shut, but there are no cars for miles. But then that metal sound. I've heard that a lot with dog Man encounters where people have heard that metal sound prior to seeing a creature, So that's interesting. The thing that I noticed the most is they'd hung up new signs, like new street signs, and one of them is a giant mosquito, like five times the size of a human eating a human. That's a road sign. So apparently you need to worry about the giant mosquitos out there too. Yeah. Yeah, that's going to be really bad when the weather gets nice. Yeah. I've never seen that sign before. I've been out there plenty of times, so someone hung up a nice new giant mosquitos sign. You guys are working on documentaries for this year, and you have a Kickstarter going on and when this release will probably be maybe two weeks left, So if you would like to talk a little bit about what you've got coming on for the upcoming projects and everything. So the listeners out there, if they're interested, they can check out the Kickstarter. Uh yeah, so if you just look up small Ton Monsters on Kickstarter, you can go and check out the stuff that we're working on for this year. Some of our the biggest projects that we're working on the movies and the series and then you can. The way the Kickstarter works is that you choose a tier to pledge some assistance, say yes, and in exchange you get rewards, which the biggest thing I think is that anybody who backs our Kickstarter gets access to all of these films in twenty twenty six before, like as soon as they're done. It's usually Seth will upload them the day that he finishes the edit, and sometimes that's months before it actually gets out for distribution to be seen elsewhere, so you get all the movies ahead of time, but regardless. So we've got four major projects coming out this year. The one is going to be Alexander Pettokov's Journey to Ape Island. He's going to go out to Vancouver Island and do some filming there actually relatively soon, and that's his thing for this year. And we have dog Man Legacy, which is another movie that we're working on, and with that we're going to have Aaron Deese and Shannon Lagroux as sort of the hosts. If you've watched any of the Texas dog Man stuff or when we went to the LBL, it was that duo together kind of checking out the woods and interviewing witnesses and stuff, and so that's dog Man Legacy. And then the two series that we're doing is Sasquatch Factor, which we're still working out all of the details as to how that's going to be laid out, but I believe the goal is twelve episodes and it's going to be all over the country, just looking into looking into Bigfoot in as much depth as we possibly can. So it's pretty cool. I'm excited to see some of these places that I've never seen before. We don't have all of the places picked out yet, but we have a few and I'm pretty pumped about that. And then on the trail of UFO season two, which I'd mentioned on the trail of UFO season one, which was like twenty nineteen when they went and filmed it, but we have put out other on the trail of UFOs since season one, but they were in film format, not episodic content. So we're going back to the episodic format for this season two. And those are the that's Shannon Lagroux hosting and Seth is there as well, and then Aaron d se has accompanied them, and then we get other people to tag Along, which actually on our last trip that we were on in the middle of a winter storm, we were filming for two projects and the one was on Trail of UFOs and the other one was dog Man Legacy, and so we had Micah Hanks with us for a few days while we were doing the UFO stuff, which was cool to spend that time with him. But yeah, so those are our projects, and then the rewards are they're the movies. You can back at a level to get movies. We have exclusive t shirts that are like Kickstarter backers, only we'll get them. We've got posters of course. We have just various levels, and the one level that is pretty I don't know. I think it's pretty unique is the statue level because we always have a statue every year by Jean Saint Jean, and this year he's doing the Hopkinsville Goblins, so I'm excited to see what that final statue looks like when it's all said and done. But we got that and then add ons, which we're trying this year. I don't think we did that last year. It's something new for us where you back at a level and then if you want to add extra stuff like Aaron Deese is writing two books. You can throw them in the cart too, and then already have them reserved when they come out. Or we have pins, we've got shirts, we've got posters, like just different ways to customize the way that you back the Kickstarter that we've not done in previous years. So I haven't really missed a whole lot with Kickstarter. I did a little one just for the thing that I'm doing, and it had like barely a budget because I didn't I didn't even want to do it. I'm I know it's a bad thing, but like I'm kind of pride forlged. I'd like to do everything myself and I never asked for help. It's a bad haffit, but but uh, I was actually surprised that people like I don't. I guess I look at it different life. I'm surprised that people actually cared enough to want to donate to something that I was doing. It. Yeah, it's it's a cool feeling. But at the same time, I was like, man, now I feel bad people. Now you feel that, and the pressure is on, right, Uh, the pressure is on at that point. Yeah, it is. It's very it's like a a well a much needed breath of fresh air when we do Kickstarter, because every year that we do it, it's always in February. You're coming out of where we're coming out of the winter, the holidays and all of that chaos. But the last couple of years, the biggest shift for us is that we've done a lot of YouTube content, so a lot of episodic things, some various specials or whatnot. But the world of YouTube is so much different than what we were used to before. And what I mean is is that the trolls are in abundance on YouTube, and that's something that you know, you shouldn't dwell on some of the nasty comments and the negative comments, but it's hard after a while, and when that seems to be something that does come up more than we're used to and you're not hearing so much of the the positive stuff. When the you know, when we have a Kickstarter it's successful, it's kind of a much needed reminder that there are people that do appreciate what we do and don't want us to fail miserably, or you know, don't think that everything we do is awful, despite what some people on YouTube made. May say one of the best advice is that anyone piece of advice anyone had ever given me was never read the comments, and yet I always do. Yep, yeah, yeah, they uh they. It's it's hard. I I sometimes can go a while and not check out on any comments, but I do every once in a while go in, go in look, just because I guess I'm human and it's hard not to. I will always have someone send me a comment or an email or something to let me know that I said something incorrectly. Yeah, yep, we've gotten that before as well, or we've had people that. One thing that that has come up is that we'll have people that will watch like one episode and say maybe it's maybe it's Heartland or something like that, where it's mostly sit down interviews, and so every once in a while we'll get a comment about, you know, why don't you guys get out in the field and you know, get some boots on the ground stuff. I'm tired of watching people just sit around and tell stories or whatever. But you know, just look on the channel we have that we just you know, there are different shows, there's different ways to go about the whole subject, and we do bits and pieces of all of it. I think, But I guess when you get stuck on a video and that's what you see, I get, I don't. I guess that's what you assume. All of them are like, I don't know. You could never please everybody in the moment you try to do that. It's pointless. Yeah, yep, that's the one thing I've always been even when it comes to this, because I used to be in a metal band and I knew that not everyone enjoys the type of music we play. So mm hmm. As long as I enjoy it, that's all that mattered to me. So if other people liked it, that's cool. And that's just kind of the mentality I've kept this whole time I've been doing my podcast. Yeah. I think with any project, whenever you're doing what you want to do and you're satisfied with what you're doing, that's I mean, that's the ultimate goal. But really that allows you to kind of find your people because eventually they'll find they'll find you. You know, you'll end up concreating at some point, expanding your community as you do whatever the subject matter is that makes you happy. We have been doing a lot of these I don't want to call them conventions, but these little festivals or something like big festivals, and I know there's like, yeah, the cryptid Con and other things. We've been doing that for the last couple of years, my wife and I when she can actually come with me. Last year, I did like thirteen. This year, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that many. I cut didn't have it. Yeah, that's tiring. That would have been you'd have been gone a lot, at least once a month if you did thirteen. And I know that they don't have it every year, so you were probably going two three times a month for some of those months. Right October, I did every weekend and the last weekend of September, so I think it was like five straight weekends that I had something going on, and then we had cryptied Con in November, and then I had two in May one in June. Yeah, it was I spent a lot of money and I didn't make all the money back. Yeah, which, yeah. I knew that was going to happen because it's a podcast. It's not like I have stuff the people are like beating down the door for it's more or less just advertising. So I just wrote it off as advertising cost right. Yeah, that makes sense. That's it makes it tough whenever some of these conventions, I mean cryptocon for you, that wouldn't be too bad right for the drive, But like some of these conventions, it'd be cool to go to, but they're so far away. The long the furthest one I went to was in Tennessee. It was down just south of Knoxville, and it was like an eight hour drive mm hmm. They did not put me with the rest of the podcast people, which is actually to my advantage because they were underwater. It had rained a lot and where they had them stage that was where all the water had been running down, so they had me. They had me up in regular vendor area, which nice. I didn't get a whole lot of traction in there either because all the podcast stuff was down in the other area. But as like, at least I'm not. Swimming right, not soaking wet. Yeah, I got an email for returning to that one. I was like, no, I think I'm going to pass that one this year because I was too far to go. Was the ones that I did decent at I'm returning to and the other ones I'm just gonna not worry about it. This year. Yeah. Yeah, I think the farthest that I've gone to since being an STM would have been it's probably the Smoking Mountain Bigfoot Conference in July. I think it's the last week of July ish sometime in there. That's about an eight eight hour drive for us to get down there. It's a full day. I mean it's a full day of travel. So that one's in Gatlinburg, I think, yeah, yeah, Yeah, there's the one. There's Smoky Mountain Bigfoot Conference in Smoking Mountain Bigfoot Festival. I don't remember what. I didn't go to the one in July. I went to the one in May, and I didn't know there was two different ones, but they call them the same thing beside one's festival and one's convention. Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen that and wondered. But yeah, I think, yeah, it's the it's the conference that's in July, and then the festival must be the one that's in the spring. Yeah. I was at the festival and then and yeah, it had stormed the night before and everything was just flooded. Oh man, well that sucks for everybody. Yeah, so when they're outdoor, I've been looking figuring out which ones are indoor and outdoors, Like, well, it's outdoor, I'm not really wanting to be outdoor again. Yeah, yeah, we This wasn't STM related. It was a conference that I went to to speak at last in the fall. I went out to Missouri and I was on the far It was the far side of Missouri almost to Kansas by the time, so that would have been the longest drive that I did. That was twelve hours I think from home. But I turned it to like a little a family type weekend. I brought the kids and my husband and we've just made a little trip of it. They'd never been that far west, so that was that was fun, but it was outside. I have about a twelve hour drive coming up here in the next month, so I'm not really looking forward to it, but I'll look forward to it when i'm once I'm there. Yeah, we're going. Yeah. I always have nerves before I leave for anything like that. We're going to be down in Alabama and wow, it's a I think twelve hour drive one direction. Mm hmm. Yikes. It's interesting, especially when you have the four kids and now that now that they're a little older, it shouldn't be as bad as the last time we went. The last time we went, my youngest wasn't even a year old yet. Oh man, Yeah, changing diapers and stuff on the road like that. Yeah, I would suck. Yeah, it's been four years ago, so hopefully now when we make the trip, it won't be as bad as it was four years ago. Yeah. Yeah, I was surprised with taking the kids anywhere for any length of time they're there. Now that they're a little bit older, it's not as bad. But sometimes the bickering in the car gets to be a little much. Can you guys just not look at each other, don't touch each other, just look out your own window. They don't have to fight in my back seat. I always hear that he's breathing my air. That's what it seems like. Yeah, yep, that's what has to happen, sorry to say. Gotta love it. Yep. Are there any sort of vestals or anything that you guys are going to be a part of this year? I think I've seen that Seth was going to be on one of them, so I forgot which one it was. I get so many advertisements for them all the time that I don't even I can't keep track. Yeah, yep, I I understand that for sure. The first thing that's coming up actually, because now we're actually in twenty twenty six, which still baffles me. Courtney and I will be MC's at the Ohio Bigfoot Conference and Alex is going to be there speaking as well, so he'll be one of our speakers and then along with others, So we're going to be there. Seth is going to be at I'm just going to pull up my my actually my newsletter because I keep everything in the newsletter that I've got. Seth's going to be at the Smoking Mountain Bigfoot Conference, but he's also going to be at Cumberland con in October, which is down in Kentucky, I do believe. Yeah, and then Alex is going to be in a few different places. He'll be in Whitehall and the West Virginia big Foot Festival and oh Maine. Yeah, he's going to Maine too. So yeah, it's not as crazy as some years that we've done, but it's the you know, it's the same thing. You hit it hard for a couple of years and then it's like, all right, I gotta we got to slow down a little bit. Yep. So around here. I think October again, I'm pretty much booked almost every weekend. I've been asked to be a speaker at a couple of different ones, so I was like, okay, but oh yeah, they're They're at least in the state of Indiana, so it's not like I had to drive too far. Yeah, but it'll be fun. October is the best year or best year. It's the best month to talk about all this stuff, I think. Yep, I feel like that's when everyone's the most interesting. You got Halloween coming on and everything else in that month, so it seems like October is always the busy time. Yeah. Absolutely. You said you were interested in paranormal stuff before you got into the Cryptis was there something that you've had experienced before that kind of drew you to the paranormal? Is just something you were interested in? Uh? Well, the paranormal side of things started because ever since I was very young and would talk to my parents about you know, what was it like when you were a kid kind of thing. My mom told me about the farmhouse that she grew up in and how it was haunted, and the way that she talked about it wasn't a discussion of you know, maybe it was haunted. It was a matter of fact, it was haunted. And after the family moved out, subsequent people that lived in that house all had issues. So I think, first and foremost, having a parent that just kind of spoke about it as if there was nothing to even question just allowed that to naturally be part of my life. But there was something about all of this spooky stuff that has just caught my attention. I mean, I was raised on unsolved mysteries and which gave me paranoia of like spontaneous human combustion, among other things. But just watching these spooky stories and you know, hearing my mom talk about that, and then as I got a little bit older, we had some odd things happen at the house that well where my parents still live actually to day, and I don't know, there was just never, you know, stuff would happen and I'd tell my parents like, oh, hey, I you know, I heard footsteps walking down the hall, or I saw something the other day, and it was never thankfully for me, they never doubted me. They never said, well, you know, what were you were you even awake when you when you had those experiences, And now they're having some of those experiences as well. Now that I you know, I guess it's just quieter there without a kid in the house. But they're they're noticing stuff now too, So yeah, it was just always around. Paranormal is one of those things that I can't really wrap my head around. And I had this conversation wasn't really I guess conversation, but I made a statement yesterday to someone because they were talking about ghost and spirits and they said they know there's some good ones and there's some bad ones. I was like, well, if you have a religious belief, why would there be good spirits still here? Why didn't they move on? Mm hmm? And then he's like, I never thought of that as a good that's a good point. Yeah. It's like I'm just saying, like, if there is an afterlife, why would anyone want to stick around here if you're promised something better? So that's where I get stuck at when it comes to paranormal It's like, I don't know what to really think about it, because if it is someone's energy and some sort of a spirit is still lingering around, what makes them stuck here? Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I also think that aside from maybe human energy, there are other factors at play, other energies that we don't quite understand. It may not be tied to humans, and that's part of what we're experiencing when we're thinking of paranormal, which gets into I guess murky or waters, you know, explaining one unexplainable thing with another unexplainable thing. But I don't know. I don't necessarily believe that every spirit, I guess is a person necessarily. I do like that line of thinking. I do think there are definitely something else other than just human spirits, and I think a lot of it could be dark, and I think some of it could be positive. But I've also had the idea that and this is for the listener and anyone else, this goes to the WU side. I guess. That's why I call it tenfoil tells. But if you think of things and like dimensions or whatever, and they claim that some of these cryptids and some of these other things are like aliens, now they call them instead of extraterrestrials, they're calling interdimensional beans. Let's just say there is a different dimension and these things come in and out of it. So maybe some of the things that people are saying is paranormal, Like these spirits are actually just something from the other plane of existence that somehow bleeds into our world. So what we think as a ghost is really just something from outside of our perception. Yeah, yeah, I like that that theory. Another one that I've wondered is if some of the cryptids that we're seeing aren't necessarily in the physical realm completely, and that there may not be what they look like. So I guess what I mean is sometimes I wonder if there's not things mimicking what we have come to know to be cryptids just for I don't know, just to get a kick out of it. You know, like something makes itself look like Bigfoot, right because because that's intimidating or whatever, it's going to get a rise out of people. But maybe that's not you know, maybe the sounds that you're hearing, the wolves that you're hearing, or whatever, maybe that's not a physical creature. Maybe that's something else entirely. If you subscribe to that, that theory that there are things beyond a physical realm. I think that some of the things that people actually encounter and I don't I know, the word gets tossed out a lot. But someone says, like an eggergre, like sometimes you manifest things into reality. So I wonder if people are I say that because I know that sounds weird. And if you've seen my Facebook post, you'd understand what I posted the other day. But it was really foggy out back, and I took a photo and I sent it to my friend Matt, who does Bigfoot Crossroads podcasts. He said I should have put a dog man back there, So I went to chat GPT and I told it to put a dog man in the background of where it's all foggy, and I have timestamped the photos. You can see it so you can see the fake photo. And then literally a minute later, there is a large black dog running out behind my fence, like right, and I have it on video and I don't know where the dog came from. I was like, did I just manifest a dog man then turned into a dog? Like? I have all the sequences of photos and you can actual see the times of it and everything like that kind of creeped me out because even my wife's seen it, like she sent she was yelling at me to go take a picture of it because we thought it was like a black wolf without buy our goats. I was like, I literally just made a fake picture and now there's actually something back there. I was like, that's weird. That is that is very weird. Yeah, when we get on these sometimes it seems like you get on the same wavelength of I don't even know what, and things start lining up like that and it's extremely weird. The theory of egger gores or you know, thought forms, Tulpa's all of that stuff. I came across a point. This was many months ago, but it was one that stuck with me, and they the I guess, the point being that, you know, there's a theory that something like and I hate this theory, but under Man, you know, exists now because of some creepy pasta that was made back when the Internet was young. And obviously there's been violent fallout from people claiming that they were doing stuff for Slenderman or whatever. But so you have characters like Slenderman. But if there was something about a group energy manifesting something, then why aren't we seeing cryptids or entities or whatever of things that look like Freddy Krueger or Jason or you know, Michael myers like why aren't those more popular things that you see? Right? Because there's more I would think, I mean, there's a larger audience watching those characters and having some sort of belief in them that maybe, like, why aren't they manifesting? If that's how that works? But I'm probably also missing a vital piece to the pazza of how it all all works. There's clearly something different between a movie and then believing something that you see online, right. I don't the whole slender Man thing, and then people have been reporting seeing rakes again that was also a creepypasta like slender Man. But I've come to terms with maybe the rake is what people call pill crawlers. Yeah, I think that's exactly what that is. So I believe I can write that one off is maybe that. But the whole slender Man thing I don't really have an explanation for. But if there is such things as Tolpas or Eggregre's, wouldn't Santa Claus be one of the biggest ones too? Right? Yeah, that's another one. So that's where I kind of get hung up on when people say that we manifest these things, Like if that's the case, then we have a whole lot of beliefs of certain things, and I don't see that action, like you said, with these characters from movies or anything like, I don't see Jason Vorhees or Freddy Krueger coming out. And if it did, I'd be afraid to go to sleep at that point, because. Right, exactly, Yeah, that would be that would be very scary. Yeah, I don't know. It's getting into the territory of Tolpa's and the energy that we could put out there to maybe create something. I feel like there's not that big of a jump between that thought process and then, you know, putting out positive thought or someone you know, a group of people you're in hard times or whatever, and they're like, I'm you know, sending you positive vibes. You know, like, if you've got enough people thinking positively for you, shouldn't that also help manifest things? If thought and manifest stuff like that? Right, I don't know. I don't I don't have any answers any of this stuff, but I've definitely I've definitely pondered that for sure. That's kind of where I come back to when it comes to like cryptids, because people have said they've seen bigfoot, okay, and people so they see dog men. I can get behind a bigfoot because obviously if it was a bipedal primate, well, if you look at us, we would be a bipedal primate if you believe in evolution. I can't come to terms with something like a canine because there's no evolutionary line where a canine would walk upright. So that's why I get confused when it comes to stuff like that. But then if you start to look in some of these other cryptids too, some of them make no sense at all exactly. So like Mothman, how do you explain that? And then you hear people talk about flying humanoids, Well, are they winged humans or are they a mothman thing? Yeah, So that's where it's it's hard for me when it comes to cryptids to think that everything is purely flesh and blood. It just it. It can't be fully flesh and blood. Maybe it's something really weird that can turn into a solid creature and then just clearly disappear. Because these things don't stick around, or we'd have so many photos and videos. I've often wondered if the shapes that they take, like, say, these creatures you kind of mentioned a little bit about it earlier. I wonder if they take the shapes of things because they have to abide by our laws of physics, so they turn into something that has to look natural in our world. Even though it doesn't look natural, it still has a three D replica, like a representation of itself. Yeah. I like that thought process. Yeah I got nothing on that but that. Yeah. Yeah, it's I think of a lot of stupid things sometimes in my brain just never shuts off. So I'll be at work it worked all day long thinking of, well, how these things could possibly exist, because in my mind they don't exist. I've always been a skeptic, so but like, right, right, it's hard to not believe in stuff when you see things or when you look into things. But I'm like, you try and figure out how to write it off or explaining that's how my mind works, and there's just way no way of explaining these things. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean there's there's a huge difference between like what you had an experience. So now you've you've seen something that now your brain has to rapids mind around like you've got to You've got to try to figure out what was it like process what happened. And that's a huge jump from even just believing that something exists than to have it in front of you and confirming is a whole different mind shift. I think we've had activity here on the property and I've I've not seen anything here, and I think I'm okay with that because I've heard things extremely close and I believe that it's there. I hear it. I mean at one point like it's just they've been very close whatever it is. But I don't know if I'm ready to see it and then have to be like, okay, for real. Now now this line has officially been crossed, everything is blurry, you know, Like this is not not that I think things are black and white, but I think once you have a sighting like that, it definitely throws in gray everywhere, multiple shades of gray. I think it makes people more I can't I can't think of the term, but like, I guess more open, more awake to the idea of. Yeah yeah, And I think that that's why it's not I don't think it is a crazy thought that once you've had an incredible experience, that you have others. And I think part of that is because I mean, this is just my theory that having an incredible experience does, like like you said, open you up and in ways that aren't visible, it makes you more maybe attuned to things, or you might notice things more. Of course, there's a way to go completely extreme, where every little noise that you hear is something unexplainable, you know, it's bigfoot or dog man or whatever, and that's hard to hard to break out of, I guess when you get into that cycle. But I don't think I don't think it's weird to have people that have had multiple experiences, even across genres so to speak. I mean, and they're not not really genres. But we definitely have set up these communities that are pretty independent of one another. And I don't understand why, but the you know, paranormal community, crypto community, ufo community, a lot of times everybody's at odds. They don't even want to consider the other side for whatever reason. But I think there is blending that happens, whether you want to admit it or not. But I don't know. You have these experiences and there's been you know, we've talked to people that have seen Bigfoot, but they've I've also seen UFOs, and you know, maybe there were some ghosts also thrown in the mix throughout their life. Not necessarily they're not being bombarded every night by all three, but you know, it's something that across their lifetime they've experienced some of the some of the weird. And I think that maybe it's because you become more sensitive to it after a while. I don't know. I had a theory which I used to think that when people say they had all these experiences, like, there's no way someone could have all those experiences. But since I've been doing the show, it's actually a lot more common than what I'd ever would have thought. But maybe it's not so much that we've become open to it, but maybe because we've noticed something. Now they're noticing us back because we actually were able to notice them. You know. That reminds me of something that a woman and I can't I can't remember her name or what she did, but I remember that I met her in mount at the penitentiary. There. This was many years ago. They had some sort of like paranormal festival or something at the prison and I went there and I was speaking with a woman and she was explaining to me her theory on things, and what she brought up was she was speaking about ghosts when she had this conversation conversation, So she was saying, once you become attuned, like when you're able to notice them, it's almost like you become a light bulb and they're the moths, like they notice just like you said, they notice. Oh hey, that person has the ability to notice me. They've done it before. Let's go to them to communicate or whatever. But she was like, you know, once you once they're aware that you can, you're you are aware of them, that invites more, whether you want to or not, whether that's what you're looking for or not, that's probably what's to happen. Yeah. I tend to kind of think that way, just because it seems like the more I've been digging into, like what's talking with other people and then just thinking about things that have I've went through myself that I never chalked up to anything other than just weird occurrences or whatever. But now I go back and look at things, it's like, is it really just a random occurrence or was there something more to it? Yeah, there's definitely been moments where things seem to be more than happenstance, and if you if you take note of it, I think people would be surprised how often things seem to go a more I guess magical seeming route, but it's not. I don't think it's magic. I think it's something that we just don't understand yet. Some people, and I don't know how to word it properly, but they claim, like when you mentioned magic, for some reason, the light bulb went off in my head. But the magic of our world around us or whatever, it's the things that we're projecting into the world. We're bringing these energies back into our world from the way we like we are manifesting our own energies out there, so it brings back things around us. So someone says, if you're a negative type of a person, you're going to draw in more negative energy around you. And some people claim if you're a good person or whatever, you're going to bring more of the light energy. But it kind of goes back to what I was saying before, like if there's good energy and there's bad energy, if you look at it just from a religious aspect, which I'm not really a religious person, but if you look at it that way, like if you do good your whole life, you shouldn't be surrounded by good energies if you believe in any of that stuff, because all the good should have already moved on. So what are these other good energies as they're not human space or what else is out there? And then that's when the things start to come to turn. You have to come to terms with the fact that like, okay, so it's just not black and white, like you're saying, like there's a lot of different elements out here that we don't understand you, and then it gets into that gray matter of trying to determine what these things actually are. Yeah, yeah, and going out there with intent. It's the same, I mean, it's the same idea of having certain types of energy, you know, good energy, and you're gonna attract good things bad energy, and we see that like even taking cryptids out of the equation altogether, you can see that if you wake up in the morning and you're in a really horrible mood, that's and you're just emanating this negative energy. You're probably before you even get out of the house, you're probably gonna stub your toe. You're gonna drop things, You're not gonna be able to find your keys, You're gonna get stuck in traffic on your way to work. Like all of these things just compound and to you it's like, I mean, on the surface, it's like, oh, what a crappy day. Everything is just piling up on me. But and I'm not saying that this is like a fool proof thing. But if you wake up and you start to notice that you're feeling that way, if you are able to pull yourself out of it, I feel like by doing that, you save yourself a lot of heartache, because it seems like when you're in a bad mood, it's like when it rains, it pours, it just cascades from there. But if you can pull yourself out of it, it's not And then maybe maybe you just get in a better mindset so if things go wrong, it doesn't like ruin your day, and you're just better prepared to handle it. But I don't know in my experience if it's if it's something like that, or if I'm really angry about something and I let that fester too long throughout the day, then inevitably something else is going to happen as the day goes on. That just compounds it. And I didn't used to put the two and two together, but in the last few years, since getting more involved in this field, it's made me wonder if that's not something that in a way, you end up making much worse just based off of the energy that you're putting out there. I know, just from personal experience, when you're surrounded by negative people all the time, it does damper your mood. And I think that energy from that you just pick up from other people like it. You can feel it too, Like, yeah, if you walk into a room and someone's in a bad mood, you kind of already know someone's in a bad mood. So I if you can pick up that energy from just someone else, if there is other things out there, I'm sure they pick up on that energy too. Yeah. Well, I mean you see it with pets. Even if your pet is aware that you're not feeling well or what like, they seem to know, or if you're angry or whatever, they're not going to come around. If you're in a good mood or you're sad, then they show up. They because they can sense that kind of thing. But even if you bring it back around to like active investigation into for example, the paranormal. I've not been on like countless paranormal investigations, but I've been in a few, and I've been with different groups, And depending on the group that you're with and their approach to things, it absolutely affects the results that you get. So, for example, when you go in with people who are more aggressive in their mood, you'll get responses like, you'll get activity, but it's going to be more aggressive in nature. If if you go into an investigation and you're just being laid back or whatever, it's not going to be as it's not you're not you're you're kind of getting that energy back from what may be in the area that you're investigating. If you go in aggressive, you're going to, at least in my experience, you're gonna get activity and it'll be exciting, but it's not gonna be necessarily fun or welcoming. I haven't had any thing actually happen paranormalise that I'm aware of when I've been out involved with some of these groups. Years ago, I went out on a couple of different ghost huts and people were saying everything was paranormal. Their meters were jumping, and this is a ghost, And I'm like, I don't really know if that's really a ghost. Like this is an old building. I'm sure the wiring is not up to code. Like again, I always try and write everything off in like some sort of a logical sense before I'm going to say something's paranormal. But yeah, I think that's safe. But going out and doing like my own stuff here recently, and I don't know, like I do notice that my little meter flashes, is that saying there's something around? Or is just saying that they're you know what I mean? I don't how do you determine if there's actually something there that's Yeah, that's where I get hung up on a. Yeah, I have been investigations where people use all of this equipment, and you know that they can tell you various things. I am not superversed in every piece of equipment out there to tell you everything inside and out, but you know they can detect field things or voices or you know whatever. But then I've also been on investigations where you go in with nothing and you just hang out, you talk or you don't, you sit quietly, and then you just listen and kind of integrate yourself into the into the building or the woods, or you know, wherever you are. And between those two, I feel like there's more of a complete feeling to not have all of that equipment because unless your goal with the equipment, I guess, is to If your goal is to record things, so you're taking data points or whatever, then that makes sense. But if you're going out and just wanting to experience things, if you're busy looking at a meter that's flashing lights or having the spirit box on or whatever that's making a lot of noise, then you're not fully absorbing everything around you. I think that there's more to our abilities to sense things that we just it's dampened because of all of the electronics around us. On a daily basis. We've you know, we don't have to live outside anymore, so you don't have to be as attuned to things, and we're not. But if you put yourself in that position, I think people would be surprised at what they notice. I got a spirit box last year, and my wife is very uh I won't say superstitious, but she doesn't want to mess with any sort of stuff like this at all. We have to sleep with like a nightlight on sometimes. But so she said not to turn any of this stuff on in the house because we've had I think there's been something weird with my house here since we've lived here. But everything's been calm here lately. And last year when I got this spirit box, my son asked me what that like, what it is? And I told him, so I turned it on, which I wasn't supposed to do that, and I said, as anyone out there, and he goes to we hear hello, and I instantly just turned it off. She's like, all right, good, thanks, thank you. It was plain as day. Hello. He looked at me, his eyes got all excited, and I was like, we're done. And then everyone, well everyone that I talked to, says, you don't ever do that in your house. I was like, well, I know. It's like yeah, yeah, so I've done that in my house because the stuff that's going on here, I just don't. I prefer with the spirit box to have the headphones on to listen, because I can focus better if I have it just on it. Like well, first of all, the spirit box, I have the speakers, crap anyway that's attached to it, but once you turn it on, it's so loud. Yeah, and it's so hard to everybody hears different things. Like I love if something comes through super clear, like what you're talking about, where there's no question, yes, that was hello. But it sucks whenever there's like five people sitting around a spirit box, the speaker's on and everybody something is so and everybody says a different word like Okay, well I don't know what it meant or what that meant. We all hear different things. Half the time, it sounds like it's saying something, but I can't understand what it says out there, Like I just it's zooming through signals. So half the time, I'm just like, it's probably just picking up a radio, the radio a piece of a word, and then your mind automatically tries to fill in the gaps. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I like the I like the if we do the headphones and I guess you don't have to have a blindfold on or whatever it's a dark room, but I like that the whole Estus method scenario where people have noise canceling headphones on and they've got the spirit box playing, and then other people in the room or in the hallway or whatever not directly next to you start asking questions and then you just say whatever you hear out loud, and you have no idea what they're asking. But when it's it's really cool when so what you're saying ends up corresponding to whatever they're asking right now, and I think, I mean, I don't know, because I'm not into pooling data points for that kind of thing, but it is interesting when that lines up, and I don't know. We had one investigation where there were two of us with the headphones on. We were in separate areas of the basement, like the lower floor, and the rest of the group was in the center of the basement, so they could hear both of us, and then they were just talking. And what ended up happening was we ended up somehow the responses that were coming. We were like talking to each other, but we were in different rooms on the opposite end of the basement, so like the main group could hear that we were talking like answering one another. They didn't even have to say a word, and that was really weird. I don't know, don't know what to make of it. I talked to someone before, and I've heard this from somebody else too. They mentioned coins. Have you ever had any Have you ever heard anything about like finding random coins? Like if not, so, I yeah, no. Someone had said that they were doing an investigation and like these coins had came out like out of nowhere. Someone had messaged me a while back about having these coins manifest and they weren't even from this country. They were like foreign currency. And then someone else had mentioned before about having found random coins. And years and years before I ever started doing anything, one of the first weird things that ever happened to me involved a coin because my friend had found one on a headstone and he tried to take it, and me and being superstitious, was like, Nope, don't take that coin. And yeah, so. I didn't know. If you've heard anything about like coins having any sort of significance with weird activity, I have not. The only thing when I think of coins two things come to mind. One is various places I've been, they'll inevitably be someplace where people leave coins or whatever they think is in the room. I guess is sort of an offering kind of situation, or just for respect. Of course, you got the coins on the headstones. I would be with you on that, do not take it that was left for that person that is buried there, not for somebody to come date. But the only other thing coin wise that I can think of, or some of these places that are supposedly person in a way where if people have found a coin and they've taken it, then they end up mailing it back because weird stuff like they just you know, everybody sees a penny as their walk and you may or may not pick it up and put it in your pocket. And that's happened at places that have a reputation for being haunted. People take them and then stuff happens that's really bad, and they're like, oh man, what's the excuse for this? And they're like, oh wait, I took that coin. Then they send the coin back. Since we've been talking here in the last few minutes, I keep hearing a noise outside that sounds like either a dirt bike revving up or a chainsaw that I got thinking about how we were just talking about Freddy Krueg or Jason, and I'm like, hopefully leather faces and outside. My other faces out there, Yep. It's just to prove just to prove us wrong? Is what that is? Like, I keep hearing it. I keep looking out my door. I'm like, I don't see anybody out there, but I can definitely hear it. I don't know if you could actually hear it through that through the micro because it sounds pretty loud. I was like, who's out here with a chainsaw? But it's really weird. I thinking my neighbor might be like reving up a dirt bike or something, but it's pouring down rains and don't understand what they'd be doing. Yeah, it's all so late to be going out. Yeah, I'm making a bunch of noise for your neighbors. Yeah. I live out in the country too, so it's like our neighbor's not that close. Yeah, so then any noise like that is suspicious. We live out in the country too, and I'm not a big fan of hearing things like that that shouldn't be there because I'm like, the nearest neighbor is not close, So who is around here messing around? Yeah? I said, I got one across the street, but they're not like directly across the street. But yeah, this sounds like it's coming from the west side, which is not where my closest neighbor would even be. I don't I don't know. I'm about to have to go investigate. I guess that's right. I want to follow up notes what you find. Someone had told me about doing the stuff that like looking for things and like, you guys do documentaries and stuff too. Someone that said, that's a very You're the type of people that are going to die first in a movie. You hear a strange noise, you go and investigate. I was like, that's my first instinct though, Like I hear something weird, someone goes see what it is. Mm hmm yeah yeah. Well, and that's what what kicked off all of the all of the potential for the Bigfoot project here at the farm was that I had a friend had come in from she was living in Oregon at the time. She'd come in from Oregon to stay for a while, and she wanted to do like a ghost investigation. So we went to the woods because I was like, well, you know what one thing I haven't done is an investigation in the woods. Let's do that. So we went to the woods, and weird stuff happened that was not ghost like, and ultimately I had to bring her back to the house and then get my husband to go back out with me. But we heard I mean it's we heard the like we played the Ohio How on my just my phone. I didn't have a Bluetooth speaker with me at the time initially, but we had started ghost investigating in the woods. She got uncomfortable, so she's like, can we do this in the field. So we go out on the field and I'm like, well, it doesn't really feel spooky in the middle of an open field. So I was like, why don't we just let's do a bigfoot call? And I played the Ohio How. But what I wasn't expecting was to hear it back, and I just started giggling. When I heard it back, I was giddy. She was terrified, and she's like, Okay, I need to go back to the house right now. And I'm like, I need to go back and get well, one, get Corey, but two I need to get the speaker so I can amplify these sounds and see what else we can get back. But I was excited because I'm like, wait, this is something. It's not tangible, but I mean it's one extra point of something being there. That shouldn't be that. I can't explain. And so we went back out and the patch of woods that we had been in that she had felt uncomfortable in, that's where the noises were coming from. So we started to take the vehicle that we were in. It was like a little it's a gator, so like side by side, we started to go toward the woods, and when we got to the opening that goes back into those woods, there was like a massive crash, like a big I mean, it sounded like a big tree breaking in half. And I was like, okay, now we go. That's that was good enough for me. Like that, I don't know, that was where I felt that point. I was all excited, and then that happened. I'm like, okay, I'm going to take that as back off. So I don't know. I'm up for investigating to a point until you get that gut feeling. I guess I can't push through that gut feeling, right. So the only thing that uh, I don't like being out alone, just because like at night, I've went out and done some stuff by myself at night because I couldn't get anyone to go with me, and I'm out there and like it's just more creepier because even though you're by yourself and I'm like, yeah, there's not something, we're probably out here. Then as soon as you hear something strange, you're like, okay. Then the paranoise sets in of like what if there is something out here? Right? Yeah? And then you're alone and how terrifying is that? Right? And the other part that I don't like about going out alone is what if there's another person out here? That's my biggest here. Yeah, I'm like, I don't want to run and do a cryptid really either by myself, but people scare me a lot. And if I'm out in the middle woods in the middle of the night and so is someone else, what are they doing? There's certainly a serial killer or something that's immediately where my brain would go, this is someone who's going to murder me right now. Yeah. My friend that's been helping me, he is not no much a believer in this type of stuff anyways, but he had the question of what happens if we actually do find something. I was like, well, I guess we'll worry about that if it ever happens. Yeah, so exactly, Yeah, who knows what you would do, I don't. You may just freeze if something like that were to happen, But then your friend would It would be interesting to see how your friend would handle that, because I've no people who are very much against like non believers in any of this stuff. They have weird things happen, and it's almost entertaining at times to see the gymnastics they pull in their thoughts to talk themselves out of what they just experienced because they don't they don't want it to be real is ultimately what it comes down to for some people. So they could see it right in front of them and they'll they'll talk themselves right on out of it. That is how my wife is. She will not accept anything because then if she has to admit that it's real, and then it becomes real. So everything to her, she doesn't believe it. That doesn't believe it because she doesn't want to believe, she said, because once she starts believing, then it's real, right. And then that's a whole paradigm shift. Yeah. Yeah, because that's what when my friend, when we had that experience here initially at the farm, where my friend was like, we've got to go back to the house. I'm done. When I brought her back to the house and dropped her off, what she said to me was that was all the confirmation I needed, because I know that that wasn't a normal animal that made that noise. And that's good enough for me to know that there is something else out there beyond what I thought could exist. And I'm satisfied with that. I'm good. I don't need to go dig any deeper. I'm good. When it comes to noises and everything. I have been known to go further into looking for what made the noise. Now, my biggest concern is again, like you mentioned, I'm not worried about running into a cryptid. I'm more or less worried about running into a known animal. Oh yeah, we have They're not as plentiful, but we do have some random bobcats. We do have coyotes, and apparently we do have black wolf looking canines are running around here because I just saw one yesterday. But right, uh so, I'm just concerned, like when you hear a noise, like you go in there, and then this past fall where was right around when hunting season started, I'm concerned we're out in the woods is like we might get shot because they think we're a deer. Like even though I'm wearing orange, doesn't mean anything because I'm in an area where sign supposed to be hunting. But clearly there's deer stands in areas that say no hunting. So I don't think everyone abides by whatever the sign says. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I don't want to. Like where I am, there aren't there aren't really any big predators to worry about. I mean, we've got coyotes though, and there's a lot of them, and when they get kicked up and start going into their frenzy and you're outside and not far, it sounds terrifying. Yep. And I wouldn't I wouldn't want to square up with a pack of them. I wouldn't want to square up with one of them, but certainly not a pack. I don't know. I hear that the coyotes are pretty skittish. I don't know. I don't know if they would be in a. Pack, though I have audio from about three weeks ago I came out here to record and they were right across the road, a whole pack of coyotes that you can hear them. They're all high pitched doing there, whining whatever they do. But then there's a very low howl at the end, and it's not a coyote howl. It definitely sounds like a dog. It doesn't sound like a wolf, but sounds more like a dog. But it was with the pack of coyotes. So I'm thinking maybe that's what this thing that we saw yesterday actually is, Like, maybe it's a hybrid, like a dog coyote mix. M h. Yeah. Maybe that's still so wild that that happened. Yeah, that is a I can't explain that one. I guess my friend he said he should have told me to put a big bag of money back there in the Yeah, generate a bag of money out in the fog. Okay, and then next time. Yeah, now you know what to do next time. Yep. Well, we've been going on for almost an hour and a half, so we can probably wrap this one up. But before we do again, I'd like for you to let everyone know about the kickstarter and your upcoming projects with small Town Monsters. Yeah. So, if you go to kickstarter dot com type in small Town Monsters, you'll see our twenty twenty six kickstarter where you can back on a variety of levels, make your choice, and then you can customize it with add ons and you'll get all kinds of rewards. But certainly we'll be getting early access to like immediate early access to Journey to Ape Island, Sasquatch Factor on the Trail of UFO season two and Dogman Legacy are for big ones, and the kickstarter ends March fifth. So awesome. Well, Heather, it's been a pleasure talking with you tonight. Oh it's been awesome to be here. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Yeah, me too. You have a good night, you too. 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