Ep. 81: The Truth About Flying Saucers

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw the top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to tenfoil Tells. I'm your host Brandon Ray. Today's episode, we're going to be joined by writer Lee. He is the host of Raised by Giants podcast. Podcast deals with a lot of topics that we talk about here at Tenfoiltels, So I wanted to get him on here try and dive into some of the things that he discusses on. There be a little bit more of informative conversations. I believe he is a skeptic as well. But before we bring right on, if you've ever had an experience or story you'd like to share, you can send an email to tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com, or you can go to the website tenfoiltales dot com and go to the contact section. You can send a message either way and I will make sure to get you scheduled for a future episode. If you want to help the podcast out, please leave a five star review wherever you listen to the podcast at. You can also write a review and I will read it on an upcoming episode. But please continue to share the podcas cast around. That is the best way of getting the podcast out to new listeners. When new listeners find the podcast, there's more chances of them having experiences or stories they would like to come on here and share. So it just means more episodes for you guys out there listening and anyone that's out there sharing it around. I do appreciate all the work you guys do. It's helping the podcast tremendously. If you're interested in joining the Patreon, that is an option. You get ad free content, early access to episodes, and there will be some special episodes just strictly for the Patreon on there. They will not be guest related, but it'll just be stuff that I've talked about, maybe have a guest on there, just specifically for the Patreon. It won't be like the normal show. It'll be a little bit different. But again, that's only a dollar ninety nine a month, so it's worth checking out if that's something you're interested in. It does help out with the podcast. You can follow us on all the social media's you do have pretty much every social media now, I'm still not very interactive with them, but they are there for anyone that's interested. But I think now we're going to go ahead and bring writer on. We've had a little back and forth trying to get this to go. Didn't work out the first time, so we had to reschedule it, but managed to get it lined up to work for both our schedules, so been looking to talking with him. Should be a good conversation, maybe a little bit different from the normal that we have going on here, but I hope you guys enjoy it. Sit back, relax and enjoy the show. I like to take time to welcome my guest today, Ryder Lee. Thanks for coming on here and talking with me. Thanks so much for having me on this a little early in the morning, but you know how we do. Yeah, so I don't usually do during the morning hour recordings. Usually it's a night thing, but sometimes the time frames just don't work out that way. So but glad you're able to make it on here this morning with me. Yeah, no problem, woke up super early for you. Didn't get it done the other day. I had like three shows in a row that I had to take care of that I made prior commendments for. So thanks for having me on. Looking forward to getting into it. Yep, not a problem. You want to let the audience know a little bit about yourself. Yes, my name's writer Lee. I host and produce a podcast YouTube channel called Raised by Giants. You can find it on Indian all podcast platforms and on YouTube on Rockfinn, Rumble and Odyssey, where I just really dive deep into certain topics that sparked my interest. And I've gone from spirituality to remote viewing, to MK ultra to UFO cults and right now I'm on a series called The Legends of Ufology where I'm going back and examining the people that popularized ufology and the entire narrative in dissecting everything that they said, because times out of ten when you dive deep into these people, it's nothing like what it seems. And we've really let the UFO and extraterrestrial speculation grow so far out of hand that I personally believe that it serves to make people easily fooled by scammers, grifters, fraudsters. And the problem in the narrative that we've created is that people really prefer the lie instead of the truth. And when people these whistleblowers and these people that come out of it that's been talking about this stuff, they bring zero evidence and zero proof to anything that they're saying, which could mean that a group of people or individual or government could use this modern myth of extraterrestrials and UFOs that could be bent upon destroying and undermining our society through the deceptiveness missing disinformation surrounding ufology and the current contact d movement that started with the gentleman named Samuel Eden Thompson in nineteen fifty that no one talks about because they've never heard of him. His story was overshadowed by Kenneth Arnold's sightings in nineteen forty seven and then later on Betty and Barney Hill in nineteen sixty one, just like no one talks about George van Tassel, which was the first person to claim the channel and have contact with the Ashtar Galactic Command in nineteen fifty two, or George King from the Etherist Society, or Dorothy Martin from the Seekers UFO called in nineteen fifty four. But this whole contactee and extraterrestrial movement can really only be described in a way that there's no really other better way to put it, but a mental illness that can be specifically tied to the rise in the popularization of the extraterrestrial myth, which is a huge aspect of ufology that literally no one wants to talk about because it's a huge issue. See. My belief is that human actions are based upon imagination, belief, and faith. It's not objective observation. And I'm pretty sure that the government, the military and the politicians and everyone know this. You can pretty much track everything back to emotion and fear. And the question then becomes, can we control human imagination? Can we shape and mold the world's collective destiny the world's collective view and if we can, how do we do that? Well, how you do it is by making sure that the source of the control is never identifiable by the public, and then you can prepare the public for unavoidable changes in the near future and push the collective mind in a desirable direction that you want. And that's why it's important that these intelligence agencies and even advertising companies commercials, they're very interested in mythology and things that may or may not be true because it can be used to shape and mold the collective consciousness. This is where we've really seen the rise and the contact e movement, and then ufology as a whole, which is used to play with our imagination, which represents experimentation of weaponized folklore, rising superstition. And really where this entire thing starts is with a man named Kenneth Arnald. This is modern times, not where the phenomenon starts. It tracks back way further in the past. But they weren't called UFOs or flying saucers back then. Before Kennetharnald. There were shields, there were pillars, there were chariots, flying fire chariots. I'm just saying that it starts with Kinne Donald in modern times, because that is where we get the flying saucer narrative begin to spread up. And we're talking about the title here, not the phenomenon, because the phenomenon is something separate and it goes back way further than nineteen forty seven. But again, they weren't called flying saucers. Kenneth Arnald kicked off the term flying saucers. And for the people that aren't familiar with who Kenneth Ornald was, he was a very well respected aviator, businessman, and later on a politician. He was the first person in modern times, remember that modern times, to witness a and report a strange craft in the sky. So around three pm, approximately three pm on June twenty fourth, nineteen forty seven, Kenneth Arnald was piloting his A two plane in the sky is near Mount Rainier, Washington, searching for a missing marine aircraft and witnessed a string of nine objects at approximately ten thousand feet. He said that they flew at amazing speeds of what he estimated to be fifteen hundred miles an hour, that the objects lacked tails reflected sunlight, and after he witnessed these craft he'd landed his plane in Yakima, Washington, and told his friend Al Baxter about the sighting. Arnold then shared a story with other pilots and they told him that, well, maybe what you saw was an experimental military aircraft or military missiles, which is a pretty dang good explanation. But Arnold, not being one convinced by these explanation of his fellow pilots and friends, he walked into a local news station and told his story to a gentleman named Nolan Skiff. Now, Nolan Skiff published an article with a headline that read something like impossible, but maybe Seene is believing, And the story was then forwarded to the Associated Press for worldwide distribution, and the term flying saucer was born. Now it's important in the beginning to realize that Kenneth Thorno was very reserved about his account and the craft that he witnessed. But as the story progressed and the public interest became very popular and this entire thing turns into a media frenzy. Now it's important when you're looking at Kinnethornal's testimony, which he did a lot of interviews and a lot of radio shows. He never used the term flying saucer to describe the shape of the craft. He said that it was bat shaped, crescent shaped, boomerang shaped with wings. Sometimes he would refer to it as half moon shaped, and often he said that his comments on his sightings were misunderstood. He ended up working very hard into the end of his life in nineteen eighty four to combat this flying saucer narrative that the media had placed on it. So Kinnetharno came out with sketches he drew to describe what he saw, and the sketches doesn't even come close to the commonly accepted version of what UFOs looked like. In there what has been popularized surrounding UFOs. Now what had happened was Nolan Skiff, the journalist that published Arnold's story in the newspaper, said that Arnold cited nine saucer like aircraft. The media took the saucer like aircraft and ran with it and created headlines seeing saucer shaped craft were spotted when Arnold never referred to the shape of the craft being saucer shaped. It was bat shaped, crescent shaped, half moon shaped, and sometimes you would even say that it was shaped like a pie pan. In a United Press interview, Arnold said that there were half moon shaped oval in the front and convex in the back, which is the very description of the drawing that he came out with. So in June of nineteen forty seven, Arnold came out with drawing it's a bat shaped, circular and winged in the back. And you would think that with Arnold coming out with the drawing of the craft, it would stop all the disk talk and the flying saucer talk, but it didn't. And this becomes such a frenzy topic with everyone reporting strange craft now and that they were seeing the same things that Arnold was seeing. And Arnold has quoted several times talking about other eyewitnesses and people that were seeing strange things in the sky at that time, and he said that what other people were seeing are completely different, there's something else, or they're nothing at all. So Kenneth Arnold was telling people back in July of nineteen forty seven that they were just making stuff up, right, And another quote from Arnold states that he feels that it should be labeled a strange type of aircraft instead of flying saucers. So in April of nineteen fifty, Arnold finally comes out and talks about the misquote the misrepresentation on flying saucers. Arnold said that the objects that he witnessed fluttered like they were boats on very rough water. And this next part is very important because this is where the misquote and the mistranslation and everything happened from these journalists and these newspaper headlines. He said, when the craft flew, they flew like a saucer thrown across water, and all the newspapers and the journalists misunderstood and misquoted him saying that the craft were saucer and shape, when Arnold said that they flew like a saucer skipping across water. And if you really track back the flying saucer name, which is the this is the most perplexing part of the entire thing. And people that know about this don't know what to think about it, and those that don't have never heard of it. Now, when you get into what the term flying saucer already was before it was associated with UFOs, flying saucers was a sport that predated Arnold's sightings by over sixty years. What's the name of the sport was called trap shooting, which started in the eighteen hundreds as a way to train hunters and shooters in which they would release live birds from a cage and use them as target practice. And later on, after it became cruel to shoot live animals, it was changed to these little clay flat disks and they were named flying saucers by a man named George Lewitski in eighteen eighty He dubbed these little clay pigeons flying saucers. Right, so, I hope everyone is listening to seeing where this is going. So by the early nineteen hundreds, flying saucers clay pigeons have become a very popular sport. There were championships, competitions, and newspaper headlines that would say the skies of North America are covered in flying saucers, flying through the air, exploding and falling to Earth, which is the exact same phrases. It's the exact same replica of phrases of what everyone thought several decades later with Kenneth Arnold sightings, the Roswell incident and the sightings in the fifties just a coincidence, right, So by the twentieth century, the name flying saucer had become a commonplace name, being used for over two decades. The sport of flying saucers become so popular it was adopted by the Olympics. In nineteen sixteen, the number of participants in the sport of flying saucers was six hundred thousand people. In the US, they all knew the term flying saucers. They called these little clay pigeons flying saucers. The military even adopted it to train their soldiers in target practice in the beginning of World War Two. You'll have to put that one together for yourself. And as World War Two permeated, trap shooting started to die off with people in the public in the public eye started, people started losing interest in it, and there was even a press statement that was released to said, your uncle Sam has sounded the call to all of you sportsmen. You have twelve gage shotguns to hand them over to him, and the boys in the Air Corps can sharpen up their wing shooting and shotguns will be used by the young aerial gunners to smash the flying clay saucers and bring them to the ground. So we have play pigeons being called flying saucers since eighteen eighty hundreds and thousands of people being familiar with the term, the military adopting the term and the practice in the early forties during World War Two, and two years after the war ended, we get the term flying saucer, but under a different context. This is really all laid out in a book called Sorcerers by Chris Albeck. He's been on my show several times and I really recommend his book Saucers. You can get it on Amazon Prime. It really lays out all of the history of trap shooting. He shows you how popular of a sport trap shooting was, and how popular of a sport the sport of flying saucers was. So what we have here is that the entire subject of ufology is based on a fallacy, and ufology has been using the shape of a round disc when it was never described by Arnold as a disk or a flying saucer. So we've literally had the shape wrong this entire time. For seventy seven years, we've essentially been telling and regurgitating a misrepresentation of what Arnold said that he saw and out of Arnold's own words, what others claim to have reported at the time. Wasn't the same war it was nothing at all. And I really challenge anybody to find a quote of Arnold saying that the shape of the craft a saucer in shape, not what other people have quoted him as saying, because they obviously got it wrong and misinterpreted his words. But find a quote of Kenneth Arnold himself saying that the craft that he witnessed in June of nineteen forty seven was a flying saucer. You can't, and you won't because it doesn't exist. The flying saucer mythology is a lie. It's a fallacy, it's a misnomer. It's a misrepresented quote from newspapers, reporters and journalists and researchers. It's in the shape of the craft. This flying saucer is still the most popular symbol of ufology to this very day, even though it's not called flying saucers anymore. Flying saucers are the basis and the root of modern uphology. Every conference, every UFO documentary, every YouTube channel thumbnail uses the flying saucer art. When it's a lie, that's never what they look like. So that's a little history on Kenneth Oornin. So even my artwork I didn't. I use AI generated this stuff. But it looks like there's a little UFO inside of it as well, like the little flying saucer. But again, that's just like you said, it's the common go to when someone mentions a UFO or anything like that, they think of flying saucer because that's just what's been pushed on us. That's exactly right. That's been the popularized thing. And I use it too. I use it too. I use it in a lot of my thumbnails as well. So it's not I'm not, you know, going after people that are that are using the flying saucer shape. It's just the most it's just the thing that's represented along with ufology. But that was done on purpose. What you got on purpose? What year was the Kenneth Arnold thing, And that was right before Roswell. Yes, okay, because with Roswell, I know, they come out and said they had recovered flying saucer. Then the next day they come back and retracted that statement. So that also I think spread the whole flying saucer phenomena exactly. And George Lewitski, the guy that created the sport of flying saucers, he said the exact same thing when he came up with the idea of the sport of flying saucers in eighteen eighty, sixty seven years before Kenneth Arnald, he said the exact same thing that he got the idea of using these little clay flat disc these little clay flying saucers from watching kids tall saucers across the water. Make that one makes sense. That's the exact same thing that Kenneth Arnald said sixty seven years later. That how he described the way that the craft flew. It's unbelievable. So you got trap shooting started in eighteen eighty which all revolved around this term flying saucer. Sixty seven years later, well, the military adopted it, basically took it out of the public eye, just like how the military in the three letter organizations and the government has taken ufology from the public. Then you have Kenneth Arnold's in modern times, right, that's exactly what they've done. They've taken over, they've changed the name. It's no longer UFOs, it's UAPs. So when you do a FOYO request and you type in you send a letter to do a four YO request and you type in UFOs in the letter they're gonna send you back a letter and say that they have no information, Uh, no study, no anything on UFOs. Mm hmm. You have to type in, you have to put UAP. Yeah, they've they've changed the name again. Yeah, because now it's a unidentified aerial phenomena. And I talked to someone recently about that, that the whole UFO term is basically now a way for them to get away from it. Like you just said that they don't have to answer questions for UFOs because they don't have anything on UFOs. They have UAPs. That's right. It's all just a way to keep people out of the loop. Yep. And it's like I was mentioning, it's turned into a government through letter organization military disclosure, just like what they did before World War Two with the Flying Saucers disk, the Flying Saucer trap shooting disk. They took that away from the public as well. What was Kenneth Arnold's actual description. I don't remember if you mentioned it or not, but I think I've never actually heard anything described other than, like you, flying saucer. But did he ever really come out and say what he saw? Yeah, he said that the craft lacktails. He said that the craft was shiny, it reflected sunlight, that it was shaped like a half moon shaped, bat shaped, boomerang shaped. I mean, he used a bunch of different descriptors to describe the shape of the craft in the way that the craft flew, but they misrepresented and misquoted him for saying that the way that the craft flew for the shape of the craft. Okay, so he said the craft flew like saucers skipping across water, and the newspaper reporters and the newspaper headlines misquoted him by saying that the shape of the craft was saucer and shape I've seemed never said that. If you could, if you wanted to, just pull up Kenneth Arnold really quickly on Google and look at his drawing of the craft. It looks suspiciously like the B two stealth bomber. It looks like one of the very first prototypes or renditions of a two stealth bomber. Yeah, I remember I've seen this on the before. It's got almost it reminds me like the batter ring like from Batman to an extent, like the way he drew it or whatever. It's got that prescent moon shape. It's got like a little point in the middle and it comes back out against it almost was like the Batman symbol minus the top piece. Yeah. Now I've seen that before, and I didn't connect with me and Kenneth Arnald. I know, I've seen that photo floated around. But now it makes sense that that's what he'd said he'd seen. But every time I've ever heard of Kenneth Arnald, They've always said, oh, he was the guy who saw the flying saucers. That's right. He never said that. Yeah, that's the that is the miss number. Yeah, I said when anytime you look up Kenneth Arnold, or if you ever hear him talk about it or whatever, like apparently on Amazon it says he has a book called Coming of the Saucers, which if he wrote a book, I don't know if that's true or was popping up here on Google. It's strange that he would call it saucers when his original description wasn't a saucer. Well, that's the thing. Kenneth Thornalds started changing his ideas and his thoughts whenever the media jumped on it, and that was the popular term to use. Later on, he did start referring to it as he would call it a disc. He also started changing his ideas and his thoughts surrounding it as jellyfish. He said the craft were biological entities and that they can change shape and change density level, and he started referring to them all as jellyfish. I mean, this wasn't the This is the problem is that Kenneth Thornald's he never said that about his first sighting. He never said that the shape of the craft was saucer shape. Now, what people don't realize is that Kenneth Arnold had eight other sightings after his initial sighting in nineteen forty seven, and no one talks about his other sightings that he had during that time. So he was seeing this stuff, well what he described as strange craft almost every year up until nineteen fifty four. His second sighting was just a month after his first sighting in July of nineteen forty seven, where he was flying this plane from Idaho to Oregon and saw a cluster of twenty to twenty five brass collared objects that he said look like ducks, and these ones appeared to be round and rough on the top that they flew in like a cluster more like blackbirds than ducks, but according to him, they weren't ducks, right. But he had many other sightings, and a lot of these other sightings have gotten conflicted and mixed in with his original sightings. Do you find it strange that out of all the pilots that were flying and everything, he's the one that keeps seeing the stuff? Though, That's when I start to wonder about red flags being thrown up just because if he saw one thing, then a month later he's seen something else, but no one else is reporting seeing the stuff. It's almost like he's just saying it now for attention. I mean as a skeptic looking at it. That's where I would someone would come at it from as like why is it always just as one guy seeing all the same stuff, like all this weird stuff in the sky, when there's other pilots not seeing it. That's right, That's exactly what happened. The popularization. He basically became famous overnight, is what happened. They would get thousands and thousands of letters from to his address, and his wife would always be complaining about how many letters and stuff that they would receive from his initial sighting. So when something becomes popular A lot of times it is. It's like making a sequel to a movie, right, you want to make the sequel bigger, better, more fantastic, but it never quite goes over as well as the first one. Now that's kind of what I was just thinking of. If he got popular from the first thing, and he's like, oh, I'm not I want to keep that popularity. I got to keep giving him new information, and it discredits what he actually saw. If he did see something originally, sure, if he's going and making up stuff now afterwards, why are we to believe that the first thing he said wasn't just made up in the first place. Yep, that's right. You just hit the nail on the head. That's a always try and keep a skeptics approach to things. So I want to believe, and I know there's weird stuff that goes on and everything, but I always trying to look back at it more from a skeptical stance. So like just when someone starts saying, oh, they've had this experience, they had this experience, and this can relate to not to discredit any of the guests I've had or will have, but like if someone tells me that they've been abducted by aliens, but they've also seen Bigfoot multiple times, and they've seen a dog man and they've had this and they like they just all these stories get so fantastical. M It's like I'm starting to step back and look at it from a perspective of why are you the only one experience in so much activity? Like what makes you different from other people. I'm not saying that everyone's the same or anything like that, but like it almost seems too far fetched that one person has experienced so many different things on topics that are not even provable, like not even accepted by the mainstream or whatever, like these are considered wu woo topics. So it's like it's hard to believe that some one person can experience so many different things because they're not. And I'm and I'm glad that you've taken that stances so early on. You know, I wish that I would have looked at this stuff critical, more critical and had more common sense into it. But in the beginning, you know, but eventually I got there. And that's what you realize is that if a lot of these people are just making the shut up, they just thought they've regurgitated the lore. The lore comes in many forms, and as we're going to get into in the second part of this show, is you know Paul Benowitz and all the myths and disinformation that was given to him by extraterrestrials and well given to him by three letter organizations the Air Force, the NSSA, and the FBI. Is really where all these theories and speculations about UFOs and extraterrestrials really came from. It's literally where the Dulcet base with Phil Schneider. That's where all that myth and lore and legend came from. It was the seeds of the Roswell event, it was the seeds of alien implants, it was the seeds of cattle mutilations being connected with UFOs and extraterrestrials. And it's a very fascinating discussion. But whenever you dive deep into it, you can normally track all this stuff back to an original source, and if that original source is being fed miss and disinformation or is just making stuff up, then you can pretty much verify that the things that people are talking about to this very day are also fake and made up. So really quickly I want to run through because I don't know how much time we have lofts on the show. I just want to run through Paul Benowitz's background here a little bit. Paul Benowitz was born in Kansas. He earned a bachelor's degree at Arizona State. During World War Two, he was a radio electronics engineer for the Coastguard. He worked as an engineer for San Francisco CBS station and a radio station in Tucson. On February twenty fifth, nineteen forty nine, Benowitz married his wife, Cindy Brunch, in Phoenix, Arizona. In nineteen fifty three, Benowitz moved to New Mexico and started working in sales. He later began his own industrial sales company. In nineteen sixty six, Benowitz he acquired the rights to a humidity censor from Arizona, New Mexico National Laboratories. He founded his own company named Thunder Scientific. It was a small family business with his wife, Cindy, and they would develop high powered instruments for NASA and the Air Force. So during the seventies, Benowitz became a member of Arizona's Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization, which was a civilian UFO group, and by the mid seventies, cattle mutilations had started coming associated with UFOs. So on April twentieth, nineteen seventy nine, US Attorney Attorney R. E. Thompson and US Senator Harris and Schmidt held a public meeting about cattle mutilations. The meeting was attended by around eighty people. One attendee was Paul Benowitz. This entire meeting was set up by the FBI. Now, some say at this meeting about cattle mutilations is where the targeting by government agents most likely first happened against Paul Benowitz because at the meeting, Paul Benowitz was introduced to a highway patrol officer named Gabe Valdez who was investigating these cattle mutilations in some UFO experiences, which is very important to remember for later on in the discussion. So Benwitz later listed July nineteen seventy nine as the beginning of a personally funded study into UFOs because Benowitz reportedly began filming strange lights and recording unusual radio signals over Kirkland Air Force Base in New Mexico. So Paul Benowitz would walk out his back door of his house onto his back patio. Kirkland Air Force Base was only about half a mile away. He could see the base from his house. He'd see these these strange lights, mainly two bright lights slowly lifting up off of the ground and would zip around and then go around the mountain. So, if you're seeing something strange over a military base, common sense and critical thinking would tell you that it's military. There's a military doing something experimental. Right. So Paul, being a radio expert, he was a World War Two veteran working in radio technology for the Coastguard, he decided to try and listen in to some of the communications at Kirkland Air Force Base to try and figure out what these strange lights that he was seeing was. And if he could listen in, maybe the military knows what these strange lights are. So he decided to decode a bunch of these transmissions. They were only kind of like halfway decoded. He was only able to get kind of a little bit of like what they were seeing. And he put it together himself that it was about technology, and that the technology wasn't from here, that it was extraterrestrial technology. So that began his journey into this extraterrestrial and UFO REALM. So in October of nineteen eighty, Paul Binowitz contacted Kirkland Air Force Base to report his findings. Like a good citizen would do, if you're seeing strange stuff, you're going to contact the military base to see what's going on. So in November of nineteen eighty, Benewitz briefed the officers in the generals at Kirkland Air Force Base on his findings. The military personnel wanted to send an Air Force agent to Paul Benowitz's house because they wanted to make sure that it wasn't a Soviet threat or another country or someone planning to invade the base. So to figure out more about what Paul Benowitz knew and to make sure it wasn't a threat, they put him in contact with a man named Richard Doty. Richard Dody is an afs AFOSI Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Paul not really knowing what he had because he didn't analyze the footage and the recordings properly. Richard Dody figuring out pretty quickly after he went to Paul Benowitz's house to speak with him that what he had was top secret radio transmissions from the Air Force base and top secret experimental aircraft that the Air Force was working on. But Dody came in and convinced him that it was extraterrestrials and it had to do with extraterrestrial craft. Now, he wouldn't outright hell Paul Benowitz that for a fact, but he would just plant some seeds, just plant a little thought in Paul Benowitz's head. And Paul already was leaning more toward that it was extraterrestrials and extraterrestrial craft and extraterrestrial radio transmissions. That it wasn't hard. That's the way that missing disinformation. Where she'd just plant a little seed in people and let them roll the ball down the field, right, And he would just say, like, maybe what you got here, Paul, could possibly be from extra trust rooms. And Paul said, that just confirms it, Paul, you got some good stuff here, my friend. It might possibly be extra trust roers. And with Paul being a World War Two vet, it was easy to convince him to keep quiet about it, right, Like, be quiet, Paul, you owe it to your country not to say anything about this to anyone. Keep all this information to yourself. But it wasn't just Richard Dodi that was doing this. All the Air Force generals during Paul's briefing at the Air Force was in on it. After Paul showed the footage he captured of the strange craft, which again the craft that he was capturing, the footage that he was capturing was top secret experimental aircraft. The radio transmissions that he was getting was top secret radio transmissions to Kirkland Air Force Base. So, after this briefing was done that Paul was doing to the Air Force generals and the personnel, a Burgadier general stood up and said, Paul, you got some pretty convincing evidence there, and then continue to ask and what he would like the Air Force to do about it, and Paul wanted a grant. Paul wanted a grant to continue to study UFOs on the base and a grant to continue his contact with aliens that he claimed that he had. Now, this is where it gets really sinister and very intrusive, and this actually caught the Air Force personnel off guard because they did not know that another agency was involved with this. So we've established that the Air Force special investigators like Richard Doty and all of the Air Force personnel were involved in in that briefing, and we're pushing Paul in this direction of extraterrestrials and UFOs when what he was really getting was video footage of pop secret experimental aircraft and radio transmissions from the air Force base. But another agency was involved. What it happened was was that Paul was picking up those signals from Kirkland Air Force Base, but he didn't really know that that was the case. So it was later found out that the NSA had a van parked across the street from Paul Benowitz's home and would directly beam radio signals into Paul Benowitz's antennae into his house to make Paul believe that he was in communication with extraterrestrials through his computer. To make Paul believe he was getting what he should be getting and seeing the things that he should be seen, the NSA literally broken to Paul into Wits's house, replaced his computer with an NSA modified computer. The computer had software installed onto it to decode the messages that were being sent to Paul in the way that they wanted Paul to see them. This is how far the miss and disinformation has gone surrounding this topic. That the NSA broke into Paul Binowitz's house and replaced his computer with an NSSA modified computer to convince him that he's in communication with extraterrestrials. And in all of these messages that Paul thought that he was receiving from extraterrestrials, which was really the NSSA said that they were from a planet with no water, that they're here for our resources to take over the Earth, and that they only trusted Paul because Paul was a chosen one, and all kinds of other stuff, which all of the things things that were being talked about with Paul believing that he's in communication with extraterrestrials are still regurgitated in this community to this very day when they're completely and utterly made up by NSA agents, And it gets even worse. If you didn't think that was bad enough, it gets worse. So in May of nineteen eighty, state police in New Mexico received a report from a woman calling herself Myrna Henson. She described a story involving extraterrestrial aliens, bright lights, and herds of cattle. The police then referred that case to a colleague in Dulce named Gabe Valdese. Now I just mentioned gave Valdis was introduced to Paul Benewitz back at that first cattle mutilation conference. This is the connection here. So the police referred the case to Gay Valdis, which was the cattle mutilation guy. Gave Valdez then contacted Paul Benowitz. So on May seventh, nineteen eighty, Myrna Henson and her son traveled to Albuquerque to meet with Benowitz, staying in his home. Henson explained to Benowitz that on May fifth, nineteen eighty, while she was driving with her son in New Mexico, they witnessed two large objects, silent objects approximately the size of Goodyear blimps, hovering over a meadow. Okay, just like Kenneth Donald and the ducks. They look like ducks, quack like ducks. Their ducks. They moved like ducks. They're in the formation of a bird. They're ducks. It looks like a good Year blimp, acts like a good Year blimp, the size of a good Year blimp. And it's probably a good Year blimp right just going out on a limb there that she's just making stuff up. So they didn't contact a man named Leo Sprinkle, which was a psychologist and a professor in Wyoming who had been investigating UFO contact e reports, abductions, and UFO sightings. Bin Inwitz then arranged for Sprinkle to fly to Albuquerque to hypnotize Henson. When Sprinkle arrived, Henson and Benowitz insisted that the sessions be conducted in his car, parked inside of his garage, with the car windows covered with aluminum foil. Paul's literally out of his mind at this point, which I don't blame him, right. You got the NSA right across the street from your house stalking you, beaming frequencies into your antennae in your house, making you believe that you're in contact with extra trestrials through your computer. You got the Air Force telling you that you're right about the aliens, but you can't tell anyone. You're going out of your mind at this point. So Sprinkle decided to regress this woman, Myrna Henson in the ten foiled out car and Paul Bennowitz's garage, and during her first regression she recalled she reported being sucked up into a hovering space craft by a tractor beam, and on May eleventh, the second one under hypnosis, Henson reported another abduction and being taken to an underground base with body parts and floating in vats and experiments and alien human hybrids, and this is the basis of what would later evolve into the mythology of the Dulce bass in Phil Schneider. And also during this regression she started talking about Roswell, New Mexico. Although no one in the public had connected Roswell, New Mexico to UFO folklore, yet it was like a non issue and which is a perfect setup for Bill Moore's book on Roswell called the Roswell Incident just a few months later in October of nineteen eighty, which was all missing disinformation about an alien craft crashing in Roswell, which popularized the myth and the lore and brought it to the forefront of ufology, which was all missing disinformation given to Bill Moore about extraterresturials and the crash at Roswell from Richard Doty and other military and through that organization assets and Bill Moore actually got up in front of the MUFON conference in nineteen seventy nine and tried to tell everybody that it was all made up, and it's all nonsense. It's all missing disinformation from the government and the people at the conference. The audience and at the conference boot him off of the stage. So it's not for the lack of trying. He tried to tell everyone. But back to the Myrna Hinson story and this Paul Benowitz set up, because that's exactly what it was. It was a setup. This lady Myrna Henson was sent to Paul Benowitz as an agent to get the lore in the mythology rolling because they knew Paul would tell everyone about this and it was snowball into a bunch of nonsense. So Henson, along with claiming to see these this large blimp good Year blimp craft, she also recalled having seen a she had recollection of given an implant by the aliens. During her regression was Sprinkle. This is the first person they'll ever talk about alien implants here. This is what started it all, before John Mack, before Willie Streeber, before all these people that popularized that. It all came from Paul Benowitz. Right. So Sprinkle returned back to visit Beninwitz to perform another regression with Henson and found Benowitz armed with a He was armed. He had a pistol and he had a gun and a rifle. Scene that he was concerned that he was vulnerable to being attacked by aliens. These people were literally driving Paul out of his mind, like they're trying to make him go crazy, exactly to the point that he was thinking that he was going to be attacked by aliens. It's really sad. It's actually a very sad story, but it's an important story because it's where all the stuff, all the mythology, and all the alien plants and abductions and cattle mutilations, and the Dulcet underground base that's a contract with extraterrestrials and the military all starts, which is missing disinformation given to Paul to cover up actual advanced military technology and classified military technology. Because he also went close to Dulce in New Mexico and got some footage of some military operations. So that's why they sent this miRNA Henson lady to Benewitz to cover up that he actually got classified military operations. So Paul, thinking that this regressionist was an alien or whatever he thought that he was, he told him to leave and then he contacted a hypnotist by the name of James Harder. Now, James Harder had also conducted hypnotic regressions of Travis Walton in nineteen seventy five. Travis Wallon is a whole other story that I'll be covering on my show Legends of Ufology on my YouTube channel in the future. But Benowitz and James Harder came to the conclusion that Myrna Henson was under the influence of alien tractor beams, and they wrote a bunch of detailed writings on how to use aluminum foil to shield themselves from these beams. This is literally where all the tinfoil has stuff comes from, and no one has any idea that it came from Paul Benowitz from government missing disinformation surrounding him, convincing him that he was seeing extraterrestrials when it was advanced military craft, that he was in communication with extu treastrials through his computer when it was really the NSSE. So Gabe Gabriel Vaudie's son later commented on the Myrna Henson story and pretty much said that it was a pox. It was a well orchestrated hoax. It was a setup that she was an agent, that she was sent to Paul Benowitz to give him all this missing disinformation, and that was confirmed by all the listening devices that was found in his dad's house and all the spy stuff that was going on, that the government was listening to all the phone conversations between his dad and Benowitz. And it's hard to figure out anything about this lady, this Myrna Henson lady because Myrna Henson is also the name of a famous actress and model. So when you type in Myrna Henson into Google, all you'll get is the famous actress and model who won Miss USA in their early fifties. So it's practically impossible to figure out who she was. But I'm willing to bet, willing to bet money that she was sent by the intelligence community directly to Paul Bennowitz. And it's a perfect cover too, because you can't figure out any information about her, so you give her a fake name that is also the name of a highly popular famous actress and model, so no one can figure out any information on her. But at this point we're getting into the full swing of the dulcet bass and all the mythology and all the rumors and theories and speculation of the Delucee Bass all started because of the information that was given to Paul Benowitz by government Missing Disinformation, Air Force Special Agents NSA, and what I believe is intelligence agent Myrna Henson. So in December of eighty one, Paul Benowitz wrote a letter to US Senator Harrison Schmidt and explained in this letter that he knew the location of the alien base in northern New Mexico, northwest of Dulce, New Mexico, and that he knew someone in the military that had made a deal with extraterrestrials several years ago, and the exchange was for land and cattle, and that the aliens would trade their technology in the form of a some form of anti gravity atomic powered ship, and together they would build an extensive joint operation underground base alongside the military to test this ship. And another really important thing that was said in this document that well, this letter that Paul Binham was sent to US Senator Harrison Schmidt, was that the ship design that the military traded for the land and the cattle and the abduction of humans was over thirty years behind the alien technology. Now, if you've been in this community longer than five years, and you've listened to a lot of people talk. This is a common comment that a lot of these people make that this contract between the extraterrestri and the military, or extraterrestrials and humans was severed because the aliens were giving us old technology. But it came from Paul Benowitz and all the missing and disinformation. So now we know where all these stories come from. That's what Bill Cooper always talked about in the mid eighties, was a contract with the United States government, the military and extraterrestrials for the technology exchange. But Bill Cooper just added that it was President Eisenhower that made the contract and sealed the deal. He just changed it up ever so slightly. But it came from Paul Benowitz because he was going out and talking to all these UFO investigators and all these the entire movement of the time. So by nineteen eighty two, Benewitz was contacting UFO researchers like Linda moultenhow John Lear, US Senator Harrison Schmidt and began to spread his ideas regarding the Dulce base to others in the ufology community. And just like that boom, the UFO mythology that had come directly from the NSA Air Force Agents Intelligence Agent Myrna Henson was born. It was that easy, and all of this has been heavily documented in the nineteen eighty four book UFO Conspiracy, Clear Intent the Government cover Up of UFO Experience. The story then really spread rapidly within the community. In eighty six, George Clinton Andrews discussed the Dulce based legends in his book Extra Treashurials among Us. In nineteen eighty eight, a weekly World News story published the story entitled UFO Base Found in New Mexico, which claimed that the diabolical invaders from another solar system of set up secret underground base in the mountains of New Mexico and that they use humans as guinea pigs for genetic experiments. It's all bullshit, And in nineteen ninety, the Albuquerque Tribune featured a mention of Paul Benowitz and his wife Cindy on their fiftieth anniversary. In two thousand and five, the book Project Beta, the story of Paul bin Andwitz National Security in the creation of the modern UFA myth was published, which details all of this and more. The book about the project was also came out in twenty ten named Mirage Men. Then that book was also adapted into a twenty thirteen documentary under the same name called Miragemn, where you have former agent AFSOI agent Air Force Office of Special Investigations Richard Doty, claiming that in nineteen in the nineteen eighties he was tasked with hoaxing documents and feeding false information to UFO researchers including Linda molt and how Bill Moore and Paul Binnewitz. It's a lot to take in, but basically it's like the whole UFO mythology was conceived and spread by one person just to automatically make it disingenuous for anyone that ever researched into it. It's like the whole thing was just a ploy to have everyone looking in the wrong direction, looking for wrong things, like just a misinformation act. That's right, to get people looking for extraterrestrials and thinking that aliens are real and that they're here abducting people and all that. Then you'll never get to the root of the problem because those things don't exist. When you get people looking for a boogeyman. The real thing can effectively be brushed under the rock. Get people looking up in the sky. Oh, that's a see something. The straight extraterrestrial. He's got to be an extra trustrian. I don't know what it is. I mean. Sean Kapatrick, the head of ARROW, just came out and wrote an article about this very thing. He was in charge of Arrow, which is the government program to investigate claims and investigate sightings, and he says that he has seen zero proof, zero evidence of extraterrestrials. All of the sightings since the late forties were military craft. It's funny because I've seen so many people within the community trying to discredit him, saying he's just a part of the ploy to cover it up, like they've been telling They've been telling you that since the very beginning. That's the problem. They've been telling you the public that it doesn't have anything to do with extraterrestrials. They've said that every single time. They've never changed their stance. It's always been the scene. When they came out in twenty twenty and said UFOs and the newly titled UAPs are real, that does not confirm the existence of extraterrestrials. They have never once said, They've never once confirmed that extraterrestrials exist. In fact, they've said the opposite. Even with the latest, with this David Grush thing, I've always wondered right from the get go, not to discredit him, but there's something fishy, and I feel like whatever information he is releasing is only being because it's been fed to him to be released. That's right, that's right. Sean ker Patrick talks about this, the small group of closely net circle of conspiracy minded people that keep regurgitating the same story over and over again. And when you tell a lie enough times, you convince yourself that it's real. And that's what's happened. It's been these same people that has gotten these stories in the original story is fake and false. I mean, Dave Grush stood up in front of Congress and said that he has no first hand knowledge of any of this, that he only got this information from other people telling him. So it's secondhand information, secondhand from stories. It's people telling stories, regurgitated old stories that have no basis in reality, and it is more than likely a regurgitation from the mists and disinformation that the government military NSA was giving Paul Benowitz in order to cover up advanced military technology. So basically, but that and mind, every time someone has seen something, are we to believe that it is just military craft? I would say yes, if it is a if it's a perceived to be a physical craft, that's one hundred percent absolutely the military. Because I've known people recently have been seeing these small spherical lights and it's hard to understand what they could possibly be. And even with the it's funny about the spheres because I hadn't really heard anything about seeing spherical stuff up until recently. Now some people have told me that they've seen some back in the nineties and they were small. Just yesterday, someone I know mentioned something they saw a basketball sized one. I said. The popular theory going around is they're like little drones. I don't know how to they propel or how they go and why they're illuminated. But if I was going to send out something small, it'd be a drone, you would think. And I'm not saying they're from aliens or anything like that. I said, most likely they're just considered drones, and I have no idea where they'd be coming. From. But I can't. I'm a nobody. I'm just a guy with a microphone, so I don't know anything. So it's hard when people say things. I'm like, this is just what I've heard. I don't know. I don't want to be out there spreading more bullshit just because that's the popular opinion to do. Oh, they're UFOs. I mean, they're aliens. That's what gets the clicks. That's what gets the clicks. My friend, you gotta say that they're aliens and that they're UFOs. That's what gets people to check out your stuff. That's that's the whole problem. That's the whole thing of missing disinformation. Uh, can you give me the ability to screenshare? I'll play this audio clip from Sean Kirkpatrick talking about these drones. Yeah, hold on one second. It should let you Okay, I'm gonna share the sound. This is uh Seang, former head of the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, which is AERO, which was the Pentagon's UFO office that was set up to investigate claims and whistleblowers and reports of strange anomalous craft. There's a large number of people, pilots who you know, have said, hey, I saw this giant sphere. It had a cube in it. I don't understand it. It must be an alien. Well, actually, no. The next generation of drones that are being built are spherical drones, and one of them is they've taken about a two meter size inflatable and they put a cube inside of it, and everywhere the corner of the cube touches the sphere, they fused it, cut it out and put little thrusters in. With eight thrusters in a cube configuration, I can maneuver this drone around very accurately. And they've tried these all over the place there. That's uh. That was Sean Kirkpatrick talking about how the craft that people are witnessing are military drones. Yeah. I hadn't heard that one. Ye, they're drones, their military craft, they are. And the cover up has been the the what people think that they're covering up is not really what they're covering up. The cover up is the cover up, but the problem is that people think that the cover up is the lie when it's not. I don't know of them really makes sense. I probably could explain that a lot better, but people are so willing to believe in the extraordinary and fairy tale nonsense that they that critical thinking in common sense just completely goes out the window. I mean, why when you look at why if you see something that you don't know what it is, why would you automatically assume that it's extraterrestrial or that is alien. Yeah, that has been a program that's been put into our mind, the collective mind. The first thought should be what kind of military craft is that? Is that the military? Where did that come from? Who? Who created that craft? It shouldn't automatically go to extraterrestrial and aliens, but that's what we've been programmed to believe. It's exactly like space. Right when you hear someone say space, you your mind automatically goes to outer space. See these words in these terminologies that are being thrown around and used have double meanings. They can mean something completely different than what you think that they mean MH Like crash retrieval, like reverse engineering. Crash retrieval can be anything. Crash aerchrieval can be a down satellite, It can be a blimp, it can be a air balloom, it could be a crash aircraft, be a helicopter, be a down to military aircraft, and most important. A crash retrieval can also be something much older than modern times. A crash retrieval can be something that was found in an archaeological dig. If we went to Afghanistan right now, me and you, we just picked up in a freaking plane and took a trip to Afghanistan or Iraq or somewhere in the Middle East, and we decided to do an archaeological dig and we found some sort of advanced technology over there, that would be a crash retrieval. But people in the community think that when people say crash retrieval, they think like modern times, they think, oh, well, they must have wherever the crash retrievel was, it must have happened and recently, it must have happened during roswell, it must happened seventy seven years ago, or even more modern timeser someone saw this craft go down and then they called the military, and the military when got the craft then tried to reverse engineer it. And reverse engineering is another one. When you hear reverse engineered, people in the community tend to think, oh, well, reverse engineer means reverse engineered of alien technology. It could be reverse engineering another country's technology exactly. Now, I like I've said earlier, I want to believe, like the whole UFO thing, the holdest and that, but I've always been somewhat skeptical, and it's not the I'm believe what the government tells me, because if anyone's ever listened to my show, they know I don't buy into the mainstream narrative. But and I've said this before, I don't think as a person we should know all of the secrets either, Like obviously what goes on behind the scenes, there's a lot of things going on that we don't know about. Some of it we probably shouldn't know about. Others we maybe not be left in the dark about. They use the whole national security as an excuse into which I understand certain topics and certain things. But at the same time, it's like when people are saying they're being abducted, the people are saying they're seeing things, people say they've had alien contact. I've had a lot of guests on here to talk about that stuff, and I don't want to try and discredit anyone, but I I've always said from the get go, I am just a platform for anyone that wants to come on the show and talk about their experience, And I've said numerous times I don't necessarily have to believe everything someone tells me, but I think what they're telling me is their truth. They one hundred percent believe what they're telling me. It doesn't mean what they're telling me is factually accurate, as in, an alien came down, did this, and did this, and did this tuk off. And I've made this reference numerous times, and I think it pisses people off. But maybe something else traumatic happened to you when you're a child and your mind is playing a trick on you to cover up the trauma that happened. So you're saying aliens came in and did this when it could have been Uncle Creepy coming in in the middle of the night and doing you know what I mean. You're a spot on spot on and I know that rubs people the wrong way because I say things like that. But at the same time, it's like, I've also seen some weird shit in my life that I can't explain, so I don't necessarily write everything off. I try and keep an open mind, but at the same time, I still I look for a more rational explanation before I go off into the wu wu side. That's right. You just hit the nail on the head right there. That's exactly what and you can see the evidence of that through the study of the CIA's mk Ultra programs. That's where it comes from. It is the traumatization. They traumatize you, they drug you, they depattern your mind to remove critical thinking, common sense, rationality, and then they psychically drive you so they can make you believe something happened when it didn't really happen. I mean, the whole goal of the mk Ultra programs in the beginning was to take memories and classified information out of people high up in government too, so that they can't disclose the projects that they were working on. And then later on it evolved into, well, if we can scramble the brain like that and remove memories and things that they have seen that we don't want them to remember, can we put a memory of something that didn't happen, but the subject thinks that it did happen inside of their head. And that's what the whole experiment was about, and it wasn't about just the LSD. Many drugs were tested on the mk ULTRA victims, antidepressants, antipsychotics, and fed I mean adderall riddlin before they were ever given to the public. And then now if you look up a statistic of how many people in the United States is on pharmaceutical medications. Mm hmm, it's staggering. That is the one thing that I've always thought is doctors anymore, at least here in America or pill pushers. It is literally, you can go in for any type of symptom and you're going to leave with some sort of medication. And I've been prescribed certain medications and I honestly haven't been taking them for a while, which I can't say I feel better or I feel worse. But they've given me stuff for obviously like blood pressure and then cholesterol. Nothing that's mind altering it you wouldn't think, but I know other people that they've tried to put me on an antidepressant before. Literally because this is I look back at it and my laugh. I was working almost like sixteen hour days, really tired. I was going through some rough times in life, like there's just a whole situation. So I had to go to the doctor because I have a CDL. In order to keep a CDL, you have to go get a physical. So I had to go get this physical and the doctor had asked how I was doing. I said sometimes I just wish I didn't have to get up. They took that as I was depressed suicidal, and they wanted to prescribe me this medication. I said, I'm not depressed, like I'm literally exhausted, like I'm working around the clock. I'm not getting any sleep. I've got stuff going on at home, like personal stuff. It's life, you know. I'm not not suicidal or anything like that. But they wanted me to take this medication. They kept trying to push this medication, which I'm not one push medication or want to take medication, so it's like no, but I just I feel like that is one of the things that goes on right now is you take this medication to counter this, but then you have to take this medication to interact with this because it counters whatever the side effects for this one is like you just keep it just adds up and adds up and add I know people that have to take like four or five six pills a day because that's what they've been prescribed. And half the time, I feel like each one counteracts the other one. Yep. That is the big problem with doctors, and you have any kind of and you're not the first person that's told me a story like that. Like you go into a doctor's office, you tell them what's going on with you, and they just automatically push all these pills on your entire anxiety pills, anti depressants, anti psychotic pills, sleeping pills. You know, it's just a it's just a band aid to the problem. You're not finding what's causing the problem. You're just trying to cover it up. That's right. And eventually it's like trying to repair a leaking pipe with duct tape. It's gonna work. It might work for a little while if you get if you get it on there snugging off, it might work for a little bit. Yeah, but eventually it's going to break and you still have the same leaking pipe. We can probably wrap this up here in a minute. But I wanted to touch back on something because I thought the timing of everything that happened with this being today and yes day, and you mentioned mk ultra for some reason, I got this notification on X which I don't use it. I have all these social medias and I barely use them because I hate social media, but for the podcast purposes or whatever, it's synced up to my website, so every time an episode gets released, it automatically updates an ex post. I don't do anything with it, but I get notifications from it. And I don't know who this person was. I don't even follow anyone on there. And it's a lady that said that she was a part of the mk Ultra project and I wouldn't creeped around because it was a super popular thing that like she'd posted in like within the day it blew up and she was explaining how her father had trafficked her around and he worked with the military, I believe it said, and she was exposed to these experiments through early years, and then somehow he ended up a famous actress's mother and she name dropped the people. I'm not gonna name drop on because I'm not spreading bullshit, but basically everything that she went into detail about, and then people were like, oh, you should kind of talk to it on my show this and that, and I even offered. I was like, well, if you want to drop on my shows, sure, why not? And a couple hours later all everything was deleted and said the overwhelming amount of attention it gained was too much and she's not going on a podcast, not doing any of the stuff. She deleted it, but then she posted something else saying that was it's still true this and that. I don't know. I just gave up at that point, like, all right, this is a dumb But I was on Reddit and someone else had posted something very similar yesterday that said they were part of an mk ultra project and they've started listing things that went on and this and that, and I was like, I commented on I was like, there must be something in the air, because I just saw someone else posting something very similar. This person didn't say that they were being trafficked by their father, but this one says it was their stepfather, and very weird that something on Twitter or ex whatever you want to call it. And then on Reddit one was a guy and the some other one was supposed to be a girl or posting something very similar on the same day, and someone else commented, which I started reading through their comment they wanted to know who this person I saw X was. Have I checked on her? They need to know her name? Who was it. I've never responded because I'm not giving out anyone's information because that's not my business. But it's like you mentioned mk ultras, like what is going on within like the last forty eight hours that there's been people posting these big, long rants about mk ultra testing going on, and I've seen stuff here and there about it, like this is just it was really in depth shit that they were talking about them. I was just like, this is strange unless it's the same person just trying to troll social media, which is very well possible. Well, there is a lot of people that like to make up a bunch of stuff because they see the popularity of it. It's kind of like with what we were talking about with Kenneth Arnold. You know, the popularity of his sightings got to such a big degree that he had to create more sightings and he turned every day things like animals and birds. And one of his sightings was he was flying his plane and he saw red and two red lights and two yellow lights near the ground. That's car headlights. So he was just turning something that is an everyday thing that people see all the time and turning it into something that it wasn't. I see this kind of thing all the time. Within the community. There are several people that claim to be a part of some sort of governmental program. A lot of them are liars, or say a large majority of them are liars. A lot of people like to claim that they are part of the Stargate Project, which was a real Army Intelligence DIA remote viewing psychic spy program that ran from seventy nine to ninety nine. There were only roughly about eighteen people that were ever involved in that program. But you have kids that are like twenty years old at twenty one, twenty three, twenty four to twenty five that weren't even born when the program was still running that are claiming to be a part of the project. It's a it's a myth that has taken It's just like the UFO phenomenon. It's something to associate yourself with to try and gain some sort of reputation and some sort of popularity within the community. And I've read all the remote viewing documents. I've read through all of the mk Ultra documents. I had them all sent to me by a former DoD officer. Read through every single one of them. And people like to make things up because they think that it's going to give them credibility. They think that it's going to make them popular, you know. Oh yeah. And this is another thing too, is people that are interested in this. No, this is how the entire Super Soldier and the Secret Space Program thing became to be. Right, A few people started talking about it, and then it snowballed into something completely different. And then that person listens to another person and then they make up their own stories. They have some weird, wild and crazy dream and then they take that dream to be real, and then they wake up and they get on YouTube and contact a person that they fell asleep listening to last night that they were dreaming about talking about and claiming that they were also a part of the Secret Space Program Super Soldier. I was actually getting ready to bring that up. You to when you're talking about it, literally made me start thinking, there's my earlier episodes. I interviewed some people that said they were a part of One guy said that they were part of the mkl for project and they were also a part of the Montalk project. Montalk is a bunch of bullshit nonsense by a guy. They impressed them Nichols that likes to jerk people off. Yeah, well he claims that Preston Nichols was an abuser and all sorts of things, and he was right involved with it, the whole thing. But anyways, when that episode came out, I got a bunch of people, I say a bunch of a few, but that emailed me saying that the guest was full of shit, he's a liar, this isn't true. And before that episode came out, I had someone else on here that was a part of this supposed secret space program and I didn't really know much about it, but again I was first starting out. I've given a platform. I still do like I give a platform for people, and the things are out there, like for anyone that's listening, they're like, oh, these are pretty crazy theories being thrown out here. And then that is the stigma that comes with it. And I've said that I don't want to have people to come out here and fear this stigma that I'm going to ridicule them or make That's not what I'm about. But I've had that person and the other person they wanted to come back on because they claim they knew each other from working together in this thing. And then someone else for contacted me. I had like four or five people from these things, and I've gotten to the point now where I haven't had any of them on there because and I've been reached out by them and I don't want to be an ass or whatever. But at the same time, it's like it's almost become sensationalized. And I never even knew what the secret Space program was, but then someone that was trying to discredit them told them, I need to watch Beyond Majestic, which I've watched it again. I'd watched it before, like years ago when it first came out, and I kind of fell asleep so I didn't remember. I thought it was boring, and I rewatched it again within the last year, and I'm like, I feel like most of the stuff that these people are talking about was literally stuff that this movie had talked about, and they're just spreading that information. And I'm not saying, again, I don't know one way or the other, is it true? Is a fake? Who am I to judge? I don't know, but I lean more skeptical and I just haven't been having anyone come on here and talk about that type of stuff because I don't need the content as in, I'm just gonna let anyone come on here and just ramble on about whatever they want to ramble on about. If I don't feel that someone is being honest, I'm not going to release the episode anymore. That's just my stance on it. It's made up nonsense. It is fairy tales, and again it's people attention grabbing. Preston Nichols literally ripped off in entire the Philadelphia Experiment movie that came out. I have to look up the date of when the Philadelphia Experiment movie came out that involved time travel and like all kinds of nonsense. He literally just adapted that entire story and claimed that it happened to him that the movie was real. Now it's it's it's fairytale nonsense that has been regurgitated. People listen to it, people kind of believe it. They again that they'll you know how, like you you put on a movie and you're going to go to sleep, and the movie plays while you're asleep, and sometimes you'll dream about the movie that's on the screen. Yeah, And that happens to me all the time. Like sometimes I'll fall asleep watching a cooking show and I'll dream that I'm on the cooking show. You know, I'm cooking for Gordon Ramsey and Joe and Arone and like all this ship and you know, and that doesn't mean that it was that it was real. I know that that was a dream. I know that that wasn't reality. But this is just a part of it. It's not the whole, entire piece of the pie. It's not the whole pizza. I'm just speaking to a Part of how this works is that a listener will be subscribed to some of these channels, some of these secret space program channels, Like James Rink has probably one of the biggest one super Soldier Talk, but she's been exposed on OKI's Weird Stories. If people are interested in how made up nonsense this stuff is, look at OKI's weird stories on YouTube. Basically infiltrated into the title of the videos, like how I infiltrated a conspiracy cult and it has everything to do with James Rink. And basically Oki just went in there and made up a bunch of nonsense that he had heard other people talk about on James's show, and James believed them. I mean, that's how easy it is, Like you just listen to a bunch of other people making up nonsense. You create your own nonsense, and then you change it just slightly, just like Bill Cooper did with Paul Benowitz's story about the extraterrestrial contract with the military. It's changed this just slightly said that it was Eisenhower that signed the contract. You know, like whenever you have a tad bit of familiarity in there with what you're talking about, that triggers people's minds like, oh, yeah, I've heard this, I've heard this before. But then mixed in with all the fairytale nonsense, it becomes what I call a conspiracy burrito. And the Super Space and the Super Soldier people have the perfect conspiracy burrito. It's got everything in it. It's got MK ultra mind control, it's got remote viewing, it's got time travel. It's got aliens, it's got extraterrestrials. It's got med beds, advanced technology. It's got portals stargates to go to Mars and live for twenty years. It's got aged regression, it's got suits that make you superhuman. It's got green black gou like the freaking Hulk and the Marvel comics that would they got the green goo that made them turn into a hulk. They've adopted that story. It's pretty much just the X Men in space and guess what the most popular cartoon was in the mid to late nineties, The X Men exactly. It's funny too. And noticed a trend, not so much from people I've talked with or anything, but like I've listened to other podcast watched other things about it. The trend that I've noticed is any of these people that have ever been considered in these programs, they're always doing something super spectacular. They get sent to other worlds. They had to kill this person, they saved this they made themselves into like the superhero, and then here now when they're back here, they don't have that ability. Most of them I've actually tried to have. I've tried to get someone on that's like a therapist or something like that, like someone's actually credentialed to talk with about this thing, but I haven't been able to do that. But here, they're just a happy, go lucky normal person. They have they're either the loner type mentality or they worked a nine to five job, like they're not special in the sense of their not out saving the world. So it's almost like their mind has manifested their dreaming or whatever how they wanted, just recalled memories. They went out done all this fantastical stuff. But here they're not that person. So I've always thought that was interesting and a bit peculiar that here there's nothing different about you. You're not special, but in your dreams and then all the other things you've done, you're this amazing universe savor. That's right, and that is to compensate for their life not being what they wanted to be. That's how I've looked at it too. They work a boring job, they do something that they hate. So therefore, in another universe and another dimension, I'm out there saving the galaxy. Eh, I'm fighting back the reptilian space lizards to save the Earth. So what it is when here they're they're probably not healthy, they're probably on some form of pharmaceutical medication or taking some kind of illicit drugs. They're working a shitty job that they don't want to be at, and they're daydreaming about a fairy tale. It's like what kids do. Yeah, that's just kind of where I look at it from a skeptical stance, And again, like I said, I don't try and discredit anyone, so I know, I mean it's obviously made up garbage. I mean you can take two looks at it and realize that it's nonsense. There's no proof of anything that they say that even comes close to anything in this reality. If that's this stuff was real, there would be some form of evidence of it here in this reality, but there isn't. My biggest thing is what is the point? And I've tried to like, if you have the ability to take people and send them through space and send them through time and then transgress their aging and send them back here, take their conscience, put in this altar, take it back and put what is the fucking point? Because you can control time and space. Once you control time and space and everything else, you don't need us anymore. You can do whatever the hell you want. So that's the biggest hang up for me about the whole thing is why do they need you specifically? Why were you so special that you had to get taken and do all these different things. They can control time and space, they can manifest things, they can clone things. They don't need you. Well, they would tell you that they are special, that they were, that they're chosen, that they have special abilities, that they're part seeds. Yeah, they're a part of a very special bloodline of beings, and they like the government and the military seek them out to go on this twenty and back space mission. That's what they would tell you. Again, it's that's the one topic anymore that I've had a few episodes, and there's been people that wanted me to do follow ups and wanted to have come back on here and everything, and I said I would and then, but I've just gotten to the point now where that's not really what I want the show to be focused on. So not trying to miss in anyone's cheerios or anything like that, but it's I don't have a set agenda for this show. But at the same time, I'm not just wanting to come on here and spout off fairy tales. The whole Secret Space program and the Super Soldier thing is a cult. It's a cult, that's what it is. And it's a step above the UFO cult. It's a step above ufology. Because you have these you can't question them. If you were to be critical of their story and call bullshit on them, they're not going to come on your show, so they can't stand up to scrutiny. I'll go on anybody's show. They can question me all that they want to question me. I have absolutely no problem because I'm not making up shit. I can keep track of everything that I've ever said. I know everything that I've ever said in great detail, to the point that I can recite it. These people don't. And the reason that they can't be questioned critically is because they can't keep track of their lives, and they use each other to confirm their participation in this twenty and back program. Yeah, it's like it's like if I claimed, okay, if I said no, I was, I was a part of the secret government organization, right, And then you contact me and then I'm like, hey, you seem like a cool dude. I think you might be a part of this secret government organization too. I think you I remember you from somewhere mm hmm. I think I know you seem very familiar. Your voice seems really familiar to me. You're on this alter on this planet, and we had to do this together. You remember that, Oh yeah, I remember that. That's yeah exactly, That's exactly what it is. Yeah, that's what happened on some of the episodes, so well, I said, So if anyone out there listening when this episode finally airs and you wonder why I haven't went back that way, now you know the truth. It's not that I want to say I don't believe people. But at the same time, it's like I really struggle to do it, and I don't want to continue to push content out there because that's not I only do this because I enjoyed doing it. I don't need to do it. It's not like I was making money off of it at the time, like I barely make anything as it is now. I didn't even want to monetize because I have a decent job. I don't need the money. This was never about money. It was literally I experienced some weird stuff and I never talked about it because people think you're crazy. So I wanted to make something where people can come on and talk about things and not feel crazy. But I've realized, going on eighty something episodes now, almost over a year and a half of doing this, that not everyone's going to be honest. And again, I think a lot of the people that come on here that talk about certain things. They are one telling me what they believe it to be true. It just doesn't necessarily mean it is true. Well, when they're talking about the same regurgitations from previous people that has proven to be made up garbage, then what they're talking about is made up garbage. And you can see that from I've done a whole series on the UFO cull so I did in fourteen episodes of them, and pretty much the entire New Age and spiritual community was based off of the ideals and beliefs of these your full cults. It goes back to the early thirties with this cult called the Cult of I Am with guy in Edna Ballard. They popularize the idea in the myth of these ascended masters like Saint Jermaine and Jesus, and you can pretty much take that cult and replace it with Donald Trump and JFK Jr. You have the q Noan cult. Yeah, it's the exact same thing. It's a regurgitation for a new generation of people, and a lot of people have been guilty of this. A lot of people have done it previous episode. But like the whole thing, did you ever hear a nasara or NASA or however it was pronounced back in the early two thousands. Yes, and that is what the called of I am. In the thirties were also talking about that Saint Germaine had this gold fun trust, and that Saint Jermaine and what is basically described as the white hats and the ascended masters of the thirties, We're going to overthrow the government and install this new this this new gold trust, and that everybody was going to get paid out all this money. It's the exact same thing I said. That's been the story that's been going around for years. It's like everyone buys into because they want hope, they want to believe that something like this could be true. So you fall into line with believing in the bullshit that gets spewed out there, and you start to drink the proverb coolid. I guess and I've laughed, and I know this makes people mad, but it is what it is. I think both sides are equally fucked. Like I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican. I think politics in general, I think it's all bullshit, and they're all cut from the same cloth. They argue with each other, but they're not really solving any problems. They're not trying to help anyone. They're just doing what they do. They make it seem like they're doing something when nothing really is ever accomplished. And when it comes to stuff like this, the average person they want to feel like someone's actually gonna fight for us. They're going to do something for us. They're going to bring change, that proverbial change that we all hope for. We're all going to be treated good, We're all going to be rich and prosperous. And then you get your drifters that make up this stuff, and then they fall in line with it because it's believable. Then for some reason you think mister orange Man is the great Savior. Now with the guy that died in a plane crash, which claim never died because I was a little bit conspiracy too, like it, it gets ridiculous after a while, it does, and it's a it's a regurgitation of much older belief systems and much older mythology. And guy and then the ballad from the Cult of I Am actually ripped off with a lot of the occult writers of that time as well, and the ballad Ranny in occult bookstore where she read Elena Brovlowski, Edgar Casey and a lot of the occult writers of that time, and then they used that as the foundation of their belief structure and belief systems of the cult. And then you have all these other UFO cults popping up in the early fifties. Secrets UFO call with Euros Society, UFO called Unarius, Academy, UFO called Ashtar, Galactic Command, UFO call it all from fifty three to fifty four. And then it just becomes this whole this like it's a circle jerk, is what it is. And people just get little tidbits of information from here and there, and then they mix it in and they make their amazing burrito. They're amazing conspiracy burrito. They're cult burrito and based on beliefs that where they have absolutely no idea where they came from originally. And a lot of people are guilty of that, even some of the big name people in the community that everybody listens to all the time, they're guilty of regurgitating information from these UFO cults. They're definitely guilty of regurgitating miss and disinformation from the government, Air Force and the NSAY from the Paul Binnewitz case. Whether they actually know it or not, they're still doing it because those are the things that get you popular. You know. You just take other people's work, other people's information, and you fold it into your own. And we've seen several people do this, even in the last two to three years. There are people that are coming up really quickly based off of other people's information that have long died, have long passed away. They've just read their book and then they get their own ideas and thoughts are going, and then they write their own book, and then they go to all these conferences, they get all these speaking deals. They get very popular on the Internet, and they don't tell you where they got all that information from. They don't cite the person that came up with it in the first place, or where they heard it from. They speak it like it's their own. Yeah. And if you notice, in this conversation, I cited where I got all this information from m H. I cited Chris Albeck's book Saucers. I cited all of the detailed information from books and documentaries from which the all Benewitz story was heavily documented. In These people don't want to do that they want to make it seem like they that they magically just got this information because it just just magically came down from them from extraterrestrials. They channeled channeled it from the extraterrestrials. That's how they got it. Because then it makes you seem special. Then it makes you seem like that you're better than other people. And that's what a lot of these UFO cults would do. And that's a tell tale sign that you're in a cult when somebody claims to be the only person that has this information and you can only go to them for the information. That's pretty much what has happened to every one of the UFO cults that I've covered. I've covered a lot of them. At some point they always claim that they're the chosen One, that they're the reincarnation of Jesus, or the reincarnation of Mother Mary and Mary Magdalene, sometimes God himself, Moses A. Kannahan, and famous saints from in the past. You know, it's always someone important mm hmmm, because when you're someone important, people will take you seriously. You can't just be h Johnny the Blacksmith from the tenth century, no one's gonna listen to what Johnny the Blacksmith says. So you gotta be somebody important. You gotta be Leonardo da Vinci mm hmm. You gotta be m M. Mary Magdalene, someone of importance to make sure that it's you're relevant exactly. You can't be an average person. You have to be someone special mm hmm, because it puts you up on a pedestal. It makes you seem special, It makes you seem than everyone else, and nobody else can have that information because it only comes through you. It is very common I've noticed, not just but the UFO thing, but within the crypto communities, within the paranormal communities, within the conspiracy realms, the people that think that they are on top and they know all the answers and they have their following. I've said it is very cult like. There are certain podcasters that have the same thing. They have their own little following, and when they don't get along with certain people because someone questions that narrative, it starts a flame war and they make their listeners go and hijack other people's podcasts, leave bad reviews. Do this, do that leave terrible comments like threaten people it's it's petty and it's stupid because I don't involve myself with any of that stuff. Like to me, I do my show, it's whatever. I don't have to do the show like I do the show because I enjoy it. But the moment it stops being enjoyable, I'm not gonna do it anymore because there's no point to it. And I'm only trying to do things like to give places for people to come and talk, maybe help people make them feel better. And when you deal with other people that want to control the narrative for their own benefit, which most of these people, they're either grifters or using these people for Again I say grifter for money purposes because I've watched what they've done, and like people will donate money to them, people like why, Like if people want to do that with me, I'm not gonna say no, sure, whatever, But that's not the point. And I feel like what these other people do with these call to do they want people to look to them like they are superior because for some reason in their life it is lacking in the real world, so they manifest this reality that they are special and all these people are their followers Yep, that's right, and I'm glad that you've been able to acknowledge that, and I'm glad that you see that for what it is. That's the one thing that I've always been about. And I said, I'm always honest, and anyone that knows me in life, a lot of people can say I'm an asshole personally because I'm brutally honest. That has been my biggest critique, I guess is some people say that I come off arrogant. I was like, I'm not arrogant. I'm literally just telling you what I believe. And I'm not going to say I'm one hundred percent right, because I know i'm not. But when it comes to certain topics and certain things and how I am, I call a spade a spade, and that might rub people the wrong way, but I'm not going to change who I am. There's too many people, there's too many channels, there's too many podcasters that are just going along with the nonsense. They're just they're just buying it hook line and sinker, you know, And that's not getting us anywhere closer to what's going on. It's not changing anything, it's not really helping anything. But I I do want to comment on it does help people in the sense that it gives somebody something to listen to, you know, like podcasts that have really helped me in the past, you know, get through some rough areas of my life. I don't really listen to anyone anymore, but during that period of time, it was nice to just listen to something and listen to people talk about something because you know, a lot of people are they're lonely, dude, like, we've created a society that is, you know, bent on consumerism, bent on getting the next biggest and best thing, and you know, like some people don't really have any kind of friends and they look to this community as a place that they can go to to, you know, kind of escape. And I love that about podcasts. I love that that if you're you're feeling bad, you're feeling done, you're feeling depressed, then you can just put on your favorite podcast and it feels like you're you're not so alone. And that's a really important thing to do. So really, no matter what you're talking about, there is importance and can help people. But as far as like the discussion around ufology, we've just a lot of people in the community has just been spinning their wheels. They're spinning their wheels over and over again. They bring these people on, they don't ask them tough questions, they don't critically go into details about anything. They just hit them with softball questions all the time. They don't call them out. Now that's not saying that you be disrespectful and you don't have to yell at people or you know, get angry with them, but they just throw the easiest, most baseline questions at them and they get super popular. If you have certain people on your show, it's going to boost your numbers. If you have certain UFO people on your show, you hit them with all these stupid, ridiculous softball questions that have been answered and asked to them a hundred times that they already know what they're going to say. I mean, I've reached out to some people and they want me to send them a list of questions that I'm going to ask them. Yeah, I've had that happen too, and I said, no, dude, I'm not doing that. That defeats the purpose of the freaking interview. Dude, Like, if you already know the questions that I'm going to ask you that there's no point in even doing the interview, no point in even doing the show. Yeah, the person asked for specific questions, and I replied back that I don't have anything specifically to ask. I thought I'd just let it be a free flow conversation from there because I don't know what I'm going to ask exactly, and that's the way that it should be. You know, they want this scripted type of interview, and because they don't want to answer anything that they might have said that it wasn't right in the past. They don't want to be confronted about any of the things that are questionable about what they have said. So they want everything to be dotted with the eyes and crossed with the t's. And that's not the way that I run things. That's not the way that anybody should run things. So anybody that ever asked me for any kind of questions, I just don't reply, and I don't reply back to them like, hey, well, you're just not going to go any further with this, because that's ridiculous. Well, we've been over two hours, and I told you it wouldn't be that long of an episode, but it's one on for a little bit longer than I expected, but it's been a great conversation. Thanks, brother, appreciate it. But yeah, I'm gonna say I think we can go ahead and wrap this one up, and do appreciate you coming on here. If you want to let the audience know one more time where they can find you out Raised by Giants on YouTube, INNI and all podcast platforms. If you want to reach out to me personally, you can find me on Instagram at Raised by Giants pod and x Twitter x at Raised by Giants. Thanks so much for having me on, my friend, I really appreciate it. I appreciate having you on here too. I didn't want to cut it off or anything like that, but I've got some stuff I've got to get done here a little bit. So that's what happens when we do these early in the daytime, morning time things. I actually have work stuff I've got to get accomplished too, So I hear that. Well, writer, it's been a pleasure. Again. Everyone make sure to go and check out Raised by Giants podcast, check out writers stuff. It's definitely informative and I think you guys would enjoy it. So again, thanks to him, and thanks for listening. Remember the truth, lies, and the stories we share, the connections we make. Stay curious, stay open minded. Thank you all for joining us on this journey, and until next time, keep questioning, keep seeking, and keep exploring. The EndNote, good night everyone,